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Well giggles, the problem here is that Clinton DID commit perjury, DID obstruct justice and DID tamper with witnesses. That the left had no problem with the behavior does not mean it did not occur.

Spare me... everyone knows that he was hunted by the Republicans for political gain- plain and simple. You know, I know it... everyone does. Only the Republicans won't admit it. Who views Ken Starr as any kind of hero now? Footnote city. At least you kept the political discussions to where it belongs this time- in the Open Bar.

Ken Starr - 36 million dollars later, discovers a blow job while looking for real estate misdealings!

He's the Inspector Clouseau of oral sex crimes.

Sorry guys, but anybody who sucks at the teat of Fox News, the Furman, Ollie North, Newt channel doesn't get to whine about Clinton getting away with anything.

JIMV, was it Furman who inspired your move to Idaho?

Would you vote for Newt?

Yes and yes?

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Well giggles, the problem here is that Clinton DID commit perjury, DID obstruct justice and DID tamper with witnesses. That the left had no problem with the behavior does not mean it did not occur.

Spare me... everyone knows that he was hunted by the Republicans for political gain- plain and simple. You know, I know it... everyone does. Only the Republicans won't admit it. Who views Ken Starr as any kind of hero now? Footnote city. At least you kept the political discussions to where it belongs this time- in the Open Bar.

You confuse motivation with acts...Are you pretending Clinton did not do all those things? The motives of the folk discovering the crimes is of no import...it is the 'shoot the messenger' defense.

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Well giggles, the problem here is that Clinton DID commit perjury, DID obstruct justice and DID tamper with witnesses. That the left had no problem with the behavior does not mean it did not occur.

Spare me... everyone knows that he was hunted by the Republicans for political gain- plain and simple. You know, I know it... everyone does. Only the Republicans won't admit it. Who views Ken Starr as any kind of hero now? Footnote city. At least you kept the political discussions to where it belongs this time- in the Open Bar.

Ken Starr - 36 million dollars later, discovers a blow job while looking for real estate misdealings!

He's the Inspector Clouseau of oral sex crimes.

Sorry guys, but anybody who sucks at the teat of Fox News, the Furman, Ollie North, Newt channel doesn't get to whine about Clinton getting away with anything.

JIMV, was it Furman who inspired your move to Idaho?

Would you vote for Newt?

Yes and yes?

You confuse a simple minded slogan "it was all about sex" with a legal case. It is a cute defense and in a political trial, such as the impeachment, it is a good tactic for feeding the idiot public a line they can understand BUT, it says nothing of the actual crimes committed.

One could reduce the American Revolution to a democrat slogan as well "It was all about greedy rich folk who did not want to pay their taxes"...Astoundingly stupid, but so was the 'sex' slogan passing as a legal argument.

...and the intellectual honesty of the "It was about lying and not sex" is about as valid as saying Newt is a viable conservative.

Hell, your US Senator plead guilty to soliciting gay sex in a men's airport stall and that didn't seem to disturb your teabags at all.

Ewww.

I bet you think he's innocent.

No. Clinton was impeached for waving his weenie under the nose of a staff underling. Technically. Look it up.

Hey. What would YOU have done???

Peace, brothah...

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...and the intellectual honesty of the "It was about lying and not sex" is about as valid as saying Newt is a viable conservative.

Maybe what needs to be done is that "anyone" in the first round of people who want to run are immediately disqualified to remove some of the riff-raff, and then truly limit terms to "1" and then, actually make someone accountable for doing something.

You can tell the quality of a person by the legislation they author, not sign onto. You can even become a co-sponsor of a bill after it has passed. How pathetic.

Someone from congress who wants to be President should run on their record, not what they "promise"! You can always blame promises not kept on someone else. Both parties have done it all too well.

The people who should run, will not becuase of how disgusting the whole process has become.

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Nah, I think the crime was lying to congress or some other feds.

Are you talkin' 'bout Iraq's WMD and Al Qaeda links now?

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Nah, I think the crime was lying to congress or some other feds.

Are you talkin' 'bout Iraq's WMD and Al Qaeda links now?

Isn't lying to the whole world about WMD's etc more significant than lying about who's sucking your "johnson"?
Why was there no call for criminal proceedings against "dubya" or any of his fellow liars? You conservatives are always quick to lynch others. Why shouldn't the same rules apply to your favorites?

I Wonder why Democrats are caught having sex with members of the opposite sex while Republicans always seem to get caught having sex with members of their own sex. How conservative is that?

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...and the intellectual honesty of the "It was about lying and not sex" is about as valid as saying Newt is a viable conservative.

Hell, your US Senator plead guilty to soliciting gay sex in a men's airport stall and that didn't seem to disturb your teabags at all.

Ewww.

I bet you think he's innocent.

I attended more than one protest and spent two afternoons going to his local office and demanding he resign.I also wrote and had published a letter in the local paper and tried to get an oped published as well but the paper only lets connected folk do that..A crook is a crook and a pervert a pervert and BOTH violated the law and were unworthy of office.

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Perhaps Obama deserves a Nobel Peace prize simply for not being Baby Bush. It's a peace prize for not scaring the rest of the world.

Or perhaps simply for sucking up to every tin pot dictator, leftist, and extremist that passes for intelligentsia world wide. Obama wins the gold for that.

The first official act of stepping outside of the United States by George Bush Junior (who was apparently myopic and xenophobic) was to get on a plane and fly to Kazakhstan and shake hands with a warlord who literally, as form of torture...had boiled to death 50,000 of his own people.

Gotta make sure those oilmen get their contracts in order. Start some wars at our expense-- for their profit. You know. The usual stuff.

Both Bush served and Obama serves at and as someone else's hand. There is precious little difference between the two.

It is only the given person's desires and perception that somehow paints a difference between the two holders of the office. If you think that anyone on radio, TV, or newspapers has anything truly relevant to say, you are truly deluded.

Both Bush could have and Obama may take a chance and exercise(d) their personal will to a larger degree while in the office, but they'd last as long as Kennedy did -when he started to chart his own course.

You've got to break down and think bigger than this weak 'my team' monkey-brained self-imposed intelligence-limit crap .

Otherwise you are going to remain spouting this illiterate and ill informed shit for the rest of your life.

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Nah, I think the crime was lying to congress or some other feds.

Are you talkin' 'bout Iraq's WMD and Al Qaeda links now?

Isn't lying to the whole world about WMD's etc more significant than lying about who's sucking your "johnson"?

Accepting this bit of Sophistry requires one to buy into the absurdity of the slogan pretending to be a legal argument "it was all about sex" when everyone but his apologists knew and know it was about actual crimes committed in a legal process....But then again, we also know that such crimes are too trivial to count when a democrat does it.

As to the 'lies' about WMD...they rank up there with lies about the Easter bunny, something simple minded children believe but folk who follow the history know are fantasy.

Using the "it was ally about sex" excuse in any serious argument reduces it too much to merit serious response.

Serious folk know better.

Nonsense. I guess the best response for Clinton was just to pull a Reagan, and say, "Well... I don't recall".... which was lying as well. Your boys lie as much, if not more, in public, in Congress, than our boys do... period. The only difference is that Clinton got caught, and yes, when it comes to lying about his dealings in other countries, which affect the rest of the world's dealings with us and each other, it IS a more serious crime, and especially when it involves a much greater degree of death, money and power, ie: Reagan, Nixon and Bush administrations; not to mention the massively greater damage to the rest of the world in which it affected. Bill's cock did NOT have the same effect and damage as Contragate, Watergate, etc. WMD's were not a lie, but it was never justification for an occupation and full scale war with Iraq. Bush used 911 for his own political gain, and connected WMD's (which were not technically not used in 911) to Iraq. This war and the wars in the region has had a MUCH more damaging affect than Bill's getting a blowie did. Period.

The very basis of Starr's investigation was flawed, and off-point from the original needs of the investigation. Republicans didn't handle their most recent scandals any better, and they could have learned from President Clinton's mistakes. They didn't. And THEY are the ones who are closeted homosexuals, leading lies of life to their family, and voters, WHO HATE GAYS and BI's... and strip their rights away... which is WAY more misleading to America and the people that voted for them, on the basis of their principals. Do you see ANY of the busted Republicans now supporting gay rights?!?! And Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian, and even HE doesn't support her rights as a human being to marry, etc. and has pretty much disowned her ("Yr outta line!...") Family values doesn't apply to his own family! A complete disconnection of reality on every front and utter hypocrisy.

JIMV, if Craig were an effective Senator, why would you care who he schtooped in the bathroom?

Did I care that Clinton got blown at work?

Yes and no.

He balanced the budget, didn't screw things up much, pursued welfare reform, etc...why would I want him run out of Dodge because a Republican agent spent almost 40 miliion dollars discovering oral sex?

The funny part was who would have predicted that all that impeachment stuff would result in Newt being found out and run out of DC but not Bubba!

The reason I did care is because he was so damned ineffectual: Never learned to inhale, never actually put it in her. Please, any idot should be able to master both actions!

I wouldn't care if Craig liked boys, other than his hypocrisy being such a creepy thing. If ya wanna screw boys, then don't opine about how wrong it is while on your way to a boy-booty call, eh? I'm opposed to Craig's bullshit more than his proclivities.

If Craig always legislates the way you want, then why would you demand his removal from office over a little head to head in the boys' room?

Sooner or later Obama is gonna step on Bush's dick?

Deflecting what? The initial argument was about Obama winning the Nobel prize, and resultant contempt and hatred that Republicans show for such an award. Posters even resulted to accusations that Obama was willfully violating the constitution. Sounds like Republicans modus operandi is nothing but deflection. I will, after review, admit that I am wrong about the nature of the initial investigations of President Clinton, and I do apologize.

But, what is interesting is that far more effort was spent by my government to hang the Prez over his misdealings, on an OFFENSE that was trivial compared to the litany of damaging offenses that Nixon, Bush and Reagan were responsible for- the very manipulation of government as selfish means to undermine the Constitution. Let's remind ourselves that dodging judgment, (and yes, violating the law in protection of exposed guilt), IS less severe than willful manipulation of the very requirements of President, whether it be Reagan, Bush or Nixon. It's about the INTENT of the action- are you protecting yourselves from the exposed truth, or destroying the very fabric of the office of President? The latter applies to Republican Presidents for some time now.

But, truthfully, 'you' change the subject to another set of accusations. At least we can admit that Clinton lied, and was wrong, but to deny the damage that Republican Presidents have caused the United States and the world at large is ... very conservative indeed.

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The only difference is that Clinton got caught

Actually, he got caught lying under oath in a legal process...something no other President has ever done including Nixon way back when.

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JIMV, if Craig were an effective Senator, why would you care who he schtooped in the bathroom?

It is called the law. Unlike the left, we do not pretend breaking it gets a pass if the person doing it is in our party. He broke the law, he plead guilty and then tried to weasel his way out of it...

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Did I care that Clinton got blown at work?]

Of course not..he was a democrat. What any responsible person with the slightest respect for the rule of law should have cared about was the crimes committed after his fatal blowjob.

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He balanced the budget, didn't screw things up much, pursued welfare reform, etc...why would I want him run out of Dodge because a Republican agent spent almost 40 miliion dollars discovering oral sex?

What Bull...He was dragged screaming and crying to the balanced budget after the support for it was to great for him to have his veto sustained, then he claimed it would have no effect, then he claimed it would take a dozen years to have effect and then, when it worked in 2, took credit to the cheers of the same dems who fought it for political gain. He vetoed welfare reform twice before Morris told him it was too popular to fail and that again his veto would fail, he again stated publicly he would 'fix' it in the out years and then again took credit when it worked and proved wildly popular. He would claim credit for a pretty sunrise if he though he could get away with it...

Star spent 40 million because the slime under investigation worked so hard to pervert justice.

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If Craig always legislates the way you want, then why would you demand his removal from office over a little head to head in the boys' room?

He broke the law...was guilty and does not get a pass simply because he is a republican. We leave such double standards to the left...Heck, you laud your crooks and perverts and promote them to positions of leadership...look at Rangel and Franks.

Dude, Ollie North and Newt are the sine qua non of illicit behavior, yet you slurp it up from them on Fox.

If you are such a one dimensional hater, you should think of living where conservatives hold sway....like...well...you tell me!

Iran?

Saudi Arabia?

Honestly, the only places that fit your politics are run on Sharia Law.

There is no country on this planet crazy enough for you other than third world tragedies.

I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

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I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

Yup, the confederacy lives. Maybe they can start wearing the confederate flag as a turban.

i was part of Mr. Clinton's security detail on a visit to Kosovo. He is one cool dude. Here we are.

Obama has something better than balls. He has a mandate. In spite of what recent polls suggest (and, by the way, they were UP, to Obama's favor, today... strongly up), Obama has the power to push and shove. This is called a "mandate for change."

Will "change" be for the better, or for the worse? Wrong question. Just bet on "change." Mandates are powerful. If Obama is wrong (and can't spin it "right,") over the next, say, year, the polls will punish him, and he will become a lame duck president. Be careful what you wish for. If, however, he can spin it RIGHT, he will have his way.

Stepping on dicks is beside the point. Winning reality is all that counts. Personally, I think that Bush AND Obama are two sides of the same coin (and the coin is NOT made of gold.... but that is a different topic).

The game is power. For now, like it or not, Obama has it, and he has the same bully pulpit Bush had for HIS 8 wasted years. Obama is simply more eloquent. And that MAY just be all he needs.

Come ON, Lamont. You are NOT going to defend Bush's eloquence...

Are you? Hey. Not even you could be THAT stupid. Nah.

The Nobel Peace Prize has nothing to do with anything. Effectively lying to the dumbed-down US citizenry has everything to do with everything. Politicians lie. They either get away with it or they don't. Duh. It is an ongoing process.

Abstract comparisons according to politicians' dicks and pretenders to the Throne have nothing to do with the establishment and exercising of power in our system. First liar hasn't a chance, in this game. Second (and now current) liar gets the bully pulpit.

Bush and Obama are both liars. Yawn. So what else is new?

Ncdrawl, nice snapshot with one of our former liars. You look better than he does -- the camera flatters the young and stupid. Clinton was no better or worse than all the other liars who pimped their respective ways into the White House. He just had better lies, and appealed to those of us who enjoy blow jobs. As RECIPIENTS, that is. Hey. Any head is good head, but only as long as you are on the receiving end...

Happy tunes.

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I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

Who would you get to carry out the effort, the military is mostly red and the lefts shock troops (ACORN and the Unions) would flee a real fight.

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Obama has something better than balls. He has a mandate.

A vote margin of less than 3% of the population is hardly a mandate...more like the will of the minority that voted for the fellow, with the independent part of that vote rethinking their actions now that we know how Marxist the fellow is.

Obama won with an 8 million vote margin from a population of over 305 million with over 200 million potential voters.

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I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

Who would you get to carry out the effort, the military is mostly red and the lefts shock troops (ACORN and the Unions) would flee a real fight.

That's the great thing about the military: They do what they're told.

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Obama has something better than balls. He has a mandate.

A vote margin of less than 3% of the population is hardly a mandate...more like the will of the minority that voted for the fellow, with the independent part of that vote rethinking their actions now that we know how Marxist the fellow is.

Obama won with an 8 million vote margin from a population of over 305 million with over 200 million potential voters.

So, you were also disdainful of Bush losing the popular vote and his lack of a mandate?

I bet not.

You funny.

Hey, I can see you're upset over the term. In Idaho, a mandate is something Senators do in the bathroom.

________

You really can only see one color. It's kind of amazing.

Reagan succeeded via controlling a Democratic legislature, Clinton succeeded thanks to a Republican legislature. Bush was done in after six years of red on red power by America's hatred of America and the election of blue legislators...you are the perfect political Mobius Strip!

Now we learn of your fears of America confiscating gold, socialist and communist agendas...I feel sorry for your fear/hate filled existence, man!

Do you really listen to music? It's made by lots of liberals - how do you reconcile that? Only listen to Wagner? Specific country artists?

Go buy a Reggae album and cheer up!

It's gonna be fine. The only thing you have to fear is yourself!

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I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

Who would you get to carry out the effort, the military is mostly red and the lefts shock troops (ACORN and the Unions) would flee a real fight.

That's the great thing about the military: They do what they're told.

The most basic lesson they teach NCO's and Officers is their personal responsibility to not obey illegal orders.

Remember, unlike politicians, folk in the military take their oath seriously...Defend against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

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Obama has something better than balls. He has a mandate.

A vote margin of less than 3% of the population is hardly a mandate...more like the will of the minority that voted for the fellow, with the independent part of that vote rethinking their actions now that we know how Marxist the fellow is.

Obama won with an 8 million vote margin from a population of over 305 million with over 200 million potential voters.

So, you were also disdainful of Bush losing the popular vote and his lack of a mandate?

Bush never pretended a mandate....

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I want to see Obama pull the troops from Iraq and redeploy them in the South to finish the Reconstruction. All the red states need to be bluefied. It's obvious that our "hearts and minds" campaign isn't working.

Who would you get to carry out the effort, the military is mostly red and the lefts shock troops (ACORN and the Unions) would flee a real fight.

That's the great thing about the military: They do what they're told.

The most basic lesson they teach NCO's and Officers is their personal responsibility to not obey illegal orders.

Remember, unlike politicians, folk in the military take their oath seriously...Defend against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Exactly! And I can't see a greater internal enemy than separatists in the red states! Remember, better dead than red. Reconstruction, here we come!

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The most basic lesson they teach NCO's and Officers is their personal responsibility to not obey illegal orders.

Remember, unlike politicians, folk in the military take their oath seriously...Defend against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.

Yeah... I think you need to be proven wrong yet again. Our generally fine soldiers did next to nothing (other than skewer each other in court) in Abu Ghraib, as well as having their superiors deny everything. Complete miscarriage of justice, and further proof that your arguments are pure douchebaggery.

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Lets talk about Zarkawi sawing off Nick Berg's head and putting it on the Internet. Lets watch it again:

Let's not. I'd rather pretend I'm watching you saw off Rush Limbaugh's head. We all know what level of hatred years of imperialistic bullshit has created. I don't need a reminder. Moreover, yr wrong about me hearing about Abu Ghriab before the war. Just like a neo-con, your assumptions are always wrong.

But I don't want to keep you, it sounds like you are enjoying your own 'Faces of Death' right now... sicko.

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No, lets watch the video and do a compare and contrast debate with Abu Ghraib? Come on, it'll be fun.

No thank you, I'm watching a video of an Iraqi journalist throwing his shoes at Ex-President Bush... Boy, GW can really move! Up... down. Up... down. Up... down... He probably got really used to that move when Laura was disappointed with him every night.

Or he was expecting the whole of Iraq to hate him utterly when he arrived- for the utter devastation he laid to the entire country's population over the years he warranted the killing of those (and our) people. Nah.. that can't be it!

No wait, I think I've seen that move somewhere before! No, not a Republican giving head in a bathroom... Ah yes.. doing lines of coke in college! Ah, yes... that's my Curious George! ("Kinda burns my nose when I do it... heh heh") Oh man o' man, I miss your President!

This just in!

They decided to make the call early at the New York Athletic Club, Obama just won the Heisman Trophy!

Not only that, after he throws out the first pitch in the World series, he will be named MVP!

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Fucking savages.

Savages... I remember a lot of (European) Americans calling Native Americans 'savages', many years ago when they owned this land. See a correlation?

Savages... I think that would include the Iraqi journalist as well? I mean he lives there, probably born there, and we populated the prisons after firing their whole militia summarily, years ago. Sounds like their doing our work for us, which I thought you would be somehow twistedly proud of. I would think you would want to kill the guards for what they did to him, from your response. You have shown immense compassion for every one involved there thus far. Ahem. Violence begets more violence. And it would follow that hatred begets more hatred as well. Yet another correlation.

And you wanted me to share comparisons of hate and death with you a few hours ago by watching videos of hate and death.

Savages, indeed.

JIMV, the most basic lesson they teach ALL officers in ALL the armed services is to obey the Commander in Chief. That would be Mr. Obama. If you LIKE that, this is your time. If you do NOT like that, get over it and listen to some happy tunes.

I think all politicians are full of shit. I am not biased in these matters. Hey. We just put up with 'em as the new ones come down the pike.

But your vision of US Troops refusing to abandon their posts on executive order is just fantasy. The chain of command culminates at the Presidency. And every US soldier, from the lowest Private to the most exalted Chief of Staff, knows that.

Now, tell us your latest fantasy. If it involves Condi Rice, I'm not sure I want to hear it.

Idaho? Yeah. But there have been others...

This has to be the funniest riposte of the at least the last 4 years. Thanks, Buddha, for the yuks during hard times...

Bush never pretended a mandate? You gotta be shittin' me...

You never watched any of his press conferences?

Shit. You never read "Doonesbury"?

JIMV, you gotta sober up. You're puttin' me to shame.

Well, sob and boo-hoo.

Now ask me if I give a shit, moron.

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JIMV, the most basic lesson they teach ALL officers in ALL the armed services is to obey the Commander in Chief.

Sorry, one obeys orders from the civilian chain of command until the moment arrives when the order is illegal and then they do not. The "we were only obeying orders" line is so pre Nuremburg trials.

My 'latest fantasy' has the dems on Congress pissing off so many Americans that we take the House next year, dump at least 3 dem senators and stop the madness and spending...

And I think we have a really good shot at that.

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Bush never pretended a mandate? You gotta be shittin' me...

You never watched any of his press conferences?

Shit. You never read "Doonesbury"?

JIMV, you gotta sober up. You're puttin' me to shame.

Doonsbury!...why not rely on Mallard Filmore for ones news..