obonillaf
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The Beatles Mono vs. Stereo (Remastered CDs Coming Sept. 2009)
rvance
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I would choose the vinyl version.

ncdrawl
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the Mono is vastly superior.

how it was intended. recorded around the idea that mono would be the release format.

mono = awesome

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What would the differences be between the mono release, and flipping the mono switch on my preamp while playing the stereo release?

obonillaf
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Interesting question...

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The way I heard it is that the lads would spend two weeks mixing Pepper in mono, then did the stereo mix in 12 hours. They expected everyone to listen to it in mono, so they put the most time in that.

The "stereo" mixes of some of the early stuff is a joke anyway, with the singers in one channel and the music in the other. Well, practically.

I am buying the mono box set cause that is the way the 4 meant them to be heard, then I will pick up the other records that were originally recorded for and mixed in stereo as individual discs.

I would have all the monos on vinyl but I cannot afford them! So the mono set is how I will go.

Trey

enframed
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Quote:
What would the differences be between the mono release, and flipping the mono switch on my preamp while playing the stereo release?

Depends on if the dynamics of any of the tracks were changed, if at all, during the mastering; in the stereo mix certain sounds may have been brought up or down with the knowledge that it would come out of only one speaker rather than both.

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Quote:
What would the differences be between the mono release, and flipping the mono switch on my preamp while playing the stereo release?

A pretty big difference actually. The mono mix isn't a fold down of the stereo so just flipping the mono switch on a preamp would would sound different to the mono AND stereo mix. There is a very real possibility that some information in the left and right would start to cancel each out creating a comb filter effect. I'm sure that ncdrawl could be more specific than that.

I ordered the mono version because they've said it's limited edition (which means nothing in itself) and since it is of limited appeal to many people there is every chance that it will go out of print. I'd be surprised if it didn't in fact. The stereo versions will be available forever in one form or another. As already stated the version that George Martin and The Beatles sweated over was the mono version. Paul McCartney has stated on a couple of occasions that the band was not usually present for the mixing of the stereo version.

mjalazard
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But, with the Stereo Box set you get The White Album; Abbey Road; Let It Be; and Past Masters (with a few extra songs). So you do indeed get more Beatles music.

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Quote:
But, with the Stereo Box set you get The White Album; Abbey Road; Let It Be; and Past Masters (with a few extra songs). So you do indeed get more Beatles music.

Yes indeed. more worse sounding music.

the stuff was intended for mono release, so every single action they took in the studio had that in mind.

btw.

every beatles fan should get this book.

www.recordingthebeatles.com

mrlowry
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Quote:
But, with the Stereo Box set you get The White Album; Abbey Road; Let It Be; and Past Masters (with a few extra songs). So you do indeed get more Beatles music.

Oh, makes no mistake about it. I'll be buying the stereo too. But I may buy them individually, over time and not in the boxed set.

pconley2
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Has anyone actually heard any of these, have they been able to compare Stereo versus Mono, do they know if the stereo versions are the same as the old versions with the singing on one side--instruments on the other side? are they truly re-mastered meaning bringing the imaging up to current standards or are they merely cleaned up versions of the old cds.

Love taught us that re-imagining what these should sound like yields great results.

rvance
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A good account of the process is here at MusicDirect. Note the comments about minimal and no compression. Cool .

BTW, Amazon is out of the mono box sets.

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Quote:
BTW, Amazon is out of the mono box sets.

Whew, just under the wire.

rvance
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Hi Cambot and welcome to the forum. I see other retailers still offering them for sale and some "not guaranteeing" delivery if ordered after Aug. 14th (or so). Plenty of stereo sets... but, there is considerable debate whether the monos will be limited to 10,000. I've seen "10,000 sets for the U.S. market" advertised. I've read that EMI will not be numbering them or ruling out another run if it wants to. I've seen sellers advertise them as numbered and limited. I've seen enough to wonder if it's all a marketing ploy. I just can't wait to hear them on September 9. If it's as great as "they" say, I won't mind plunking down the extra $$ over the cost of the more expansive stereo box set- with the mini documentaries- which are also supposed to be limited to the first production run. What to believe?

linden518
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Tone Audio has the review:

http://www.tonepublications.com/music/beatles-box-in-stereo-and-mono/

rvance
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How encouraging was that? Thanks for the link.

Jim Tavegia
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There is a very neat thread on SHForums by the engineer of the set. Also on Amazon there is the recording of a phone interview with the engineers on the project. Very neat stuff.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=192244

http://www.amazon.com/gp/entity/store/B0...mp;pf_rd_i=5174

Jim

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Jim-

That's some good stuff. A friend sent me a link to a recent interview with George Martin that was quite interesting. I hope that others will enjoy it too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00mc0cc

mrlowry
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Just to make The Beatles mono-mania that's going on around here a little more absurd earlier today I received the following email from amazon:

"Hello from Amazon.com,

Our records indicate you purchased a Beatles Mono Box Set, and we wanted to update you on its availability.

This new information will not affect your pre-order--if you pre-ordered a mono box set, you will receive it.

The manufacturer has informed us that they will be producing additional mono box sets due to high demand. While the box set remains a limited-production item, it will not be capped at 10,000 copies for the U.S. market, as originally reported."

That's good news for those who haven't already ordered.

rvance
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Not that there aren't enough Beatle fans, audiophiles, collectors and completists to have driven up sales of the mono set, but I wonder how many eBay speculators pre-ordered their dozen(s) copies to cash in on the exclusivity of the "10,000" limited edition? If there were a significant number, there may be some cancellations on the pre-order.

I figured the extra cost of the smaller mono set was due to its limited run. Wonder if they'll be some complaints now. (why am I wondering??)

I will enjoy it in addition to all the rigamarole.

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I pre-ordered from Elusive Disk. Just got an email from them stating that the mono box set is -not- numbered and apparently they will be produced to meet whatever demand EMI feels is out there.

mrlowry
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The Chicago Tribune did a nice piece with the help of Audio Consultants' most pimped out listening room.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-0906-beatles-fanssep06,0,3187397.story

rvance
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Kind of a puzzling/interesting commentary on the differences between the mono and stereo versions of specific songs, but not as thoroughly fleshed out as I'd like- of course, I'd like an album by album breakdown of every song...

What follows in the reader commentary is very reminiscent of the cables/digital/analog wars on these forums. One audio "engineer" even goes on to praise Bose in his critique of audiophiles. I guess the mediocritists have a new champ.

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I've got one of the two sets waiting for me at home...5:00 can't come quick enough!

The other's scheduled for delivery tomorrow...still no shipping info on the RockBand game...

Bill

pconley2
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we look forward to your comments, especially if it is the mono box set.

rvance
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Had a little quiet time at home- just enough to start the countdown with Please Please Me. Going to listen chronologically, of course. The sound quality is exceptional considering the age and technology of these recordings.

More importantly, the mono of I Saw Her Standing There swings and swaggers with a virility that escaped me as a youngster of 11. Who knew? I certainly haven't heard it like this before. The rest of the album was one of those time warp trips that makes you glad to have been around to experience them bursting in on the music scene. I am eagerly looking forward to playing more.

BTW, the packaging is first rate.

Buddha
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I'm boycotting for now - I can't abide the fact there is more compression now than then.

A point in th mono mix's favor is no compression added.

Jim Tavegia
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Hasn't every version of these songs previously released had some compression and EQ done by the mastering engineers? It might seem to me that is might be the least intrusive releases so far.

I really like the Beatles, but am not a finatic, but I may still buy one of these sets becuase I have read and listened to the engineers involved and they seem to feel some kind of "sacred duty" to not do any harm.

Musically this is an important event.

rvance
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Hi Buddha and Jim,

If their facts are correct there has only been a total of about 5 minutes worth of restrained compression added to the whole stereo catalog. The mono sounds sweet and I bet the stereo does as well.

Buddha
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Quote:
Hi Buddha and Jim,

If their facts are correct there has only been a total of about 5 minutes worth of restrained compression added to the whole stereo catalog. The mono sounds sweet and I bet the stereo does as well.

Thnaks for that. You've improved my interest level!

Also, there is a part of me that wonders if the remix will take the sound from 'romance' to 'gynecology,' so to speak!

I read the parts about having to edit out Ringo's squeeky drums and low level coughing, etc.

Guess I'll just have to take the risk!

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Quote:

Quote:
But, with the Stereo Box set you get The White Album; Abbey Road; Let It Be; and Past Masters (with a few extra songs). So you do indeed get more Beatles music.

I'm buying individually. Mainly because I don't think I want to spend that much money.

I was at Starbucks yesterday and they had Rubber Soul and Help, so I got Help. I didn't know they were released yet.

I thought that if Help (in stereo) sounded good enough I'd get Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's Abbey Road and The White Album.

Help sounded very good. Some sounded great. I got Sgt. Peppers 1/2 later at another Starbucks and Abbey Road today at another Starbucks. I haven't listened to any of them at home, just in the car, so I still don't know just how good they are, but my car has a Mac amp, and MB Quart speakers so the sound is good.

I'll listen to them inside before the weekend is out.

Oh, makes no mistake about it. I'll be buying the stereo too. But I may buy them individually, over time and not in the boxed set.

rvance
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Quote:
Also, there is a part of me that wonders if the remix will take the sound from 'romance' to 'gynecology,' so to speak!

There's definitely a higher level of detail, air and precision that I don't remember on my Sears Silvertone record changer or the Zenith table radio in the kitchen. My 8 tracks were fairly hi-fi back in the day, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with what I'm hearing. Sometimes it sounds like I'm listening to Klipsches instead of the Wharfedales.

There seems to be some barely discernible differences between these British releases and some of the songs I've committed to pubescent memory, but it only amounts to an extra (or missing) guitar strum that might finish a song or an unfamiliar vocal note here and there.

With The Beatles exhibited some pitch issues on a vocal or two- very charming and Things We Said Today on Hard Day's Night really brought the whole era back in a big rush. Lots of joys and highlights in these discs.

I don't think the extra cleaning and buffing have stripped any finish off these classics.

Buddha
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My kids got Big Mike the stereo set for his birthday, and just the packaging made me want to run out and get the dang thing!

Hell, merely reading the song lists on the backs of the discs makes me slobber. All that music has been installed into my DNA at this point!

It will find its way onto my list.

satkinsn
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A strange and wonderful moment.

Yesterday was Saturday, and I haven't seen any set in retail since late Wednesday.

I walk into the 'Borders' in Syracuse last night, and there sits a copy of...the mono set.

It is in my hands at $298. I get to the counter and the clerk says, 'Wait, I have a sale price of $239.'

Wow, yes.

Then she says, 'or I have a 30% off coupon.'

So it becomes one mono set: $209 plus tax.

And yes, it is worth it.

s.

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I pre-ordered the Mono set through Amazon and I'm very glad that I did. I still don't have the stereo set because I was counting on picking it up locally. In Chicago EVERY Best Buy and EVERY Borders completely sold out in a a few hours of both the Stereo and Monon sets.

"Please Please Me" sounds amazing sounding. The space around the music, Ringo's kick drum/cymbals, and the extra natural rawness of the guitars all really make it more enjoyable a more enjoyable listen.

The mono "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" mix is absolute perfection. Every sound is perfectly in it's place. "Lucy in The Sky with Diamonds" is so much better and "She's Leaving Home" is completely different too.

The 1965 Stereo mix that is included as a bonus on the mono disc of "Rubber Soul" completely sucks. I now understand why George Martin wanted a second crack at it in 1986.

satkinsn
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I'm a third of the way through the set and I'm staggered. This is not some subtle improvement, or difference.

You're absolutely right about the mono Pepper - to me, it was almost like hearing the album new.

Magical Mystery Tour is also amazing.

I'm not as sold on the White Album, where the good things mono brings to the table don't offset (to me) the loss of soundstage.

Rubber Soul is wonderful, (and you're right about the original stereo mix). So is Hard Day's Night.

s.

rvance
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I got chronologically thru the mono Rubber Soul and was very happy with the improvements in sound over previous cd's.

Then I listened to Revolver and felt it was harsh and etched in the upper registers on many songs. Is it me or a bad night for my system?

Sound is def NOT as fat and distortion free as the DVD-A "Love," which is unfortunately over-gimmicked with layering and sound effects (it's a soundtrack to Cirque de Soleil, after all). Had to turn the volume down to a lower level on Revolver to listen to it w/out distress.

Hoping for the best on Pepper and rest.

Addendum: I had to disable an extremely loud alarm in one of our school district buildings the afternoon of the original post. The horn was under an eave and the sound was concentrated, piercing and painful when I entered the building. I'm sure it affected my sensitivity to volume and ability to hear- I aleady suffer from some loss, which is why I'm so big on higher resolution formats- they have limited distortion. I'll be leaving hearing protectors in my vehicle for future episodes and am waiting a few days before more critical listening to these discs.

satkinsn
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You make a good point.

In my office, I have four or five tvs running all the time - the volume isn't high, but there is a steady undercurrent of noise, punctuated by me turning up one set or the other to pay attention to what's on.

At the end of the day, I'm just *weary* of hearing, and I never put music on at home until a couple of hours have passed - and some nights it just doesn't work, regardless.

I think we don't consider our own hearing/environment outside of where we listen enough when evaluating how things sound.

s.

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Quote:
The mono "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" mix is absolute perfection. Every sound is perfectly in it's place. "Lucy in The Sky with Diamonds" is so much better and "She's Leaving Home" is completely different too.

After reading the comment above I gave the mono SPLHCB a careful listen since up until then I had only considered the mono remasters as more of collector's items rather than legitimate or worthwhile pieces of audio & music, in other words, just more "cash" from the "cow", but now I have been saved and I see light. Praise the Lord!!

The clarity of the recording is just stunning. If anything the mono somehow opens things up even more so than does the stereo remasters. Thanks for helping to set me straight.

As I write this I'm jumping back and forth between the mono and stereo remasters of "Fixing A Hole" and notice that the reverb on the mono version is much less noticeable than on the stereo version. There are other differences as well but the difference in reverb is the most noticeable to my ears. Another difference is that the vocals are much more up front on the stereo version whereas on the mono version the vocals are slightly recessed. and at 1:40 in there is a "dit dit dit" background vocal on the stereo version which gets buried in the mono version. I better stop there since now I'm just turning into an anal retentive audiophile.

The one thing that is constant on both versions is the greatness of the music. Sure The Beatles catalog may be a cash cow but man what an excellent cow it is.

mrlowry
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jazzfan, I'm very glad to hear that you are enjoying the Mono mix so much. Most of the other album are likewise more self-assured sounding than their Stereo counter-parts.

The mono mix of "Strawberry Fields Forever" is another one that really surprises. That's one of my favorite Beatles tunes and the mono mix allows the listener to much more easily follow each individual instrument. By comparison the Stereo mix is a Psychedelic, yet murky mess. The Mono mixes on the rest of "Magical Mystery Tour" are like wise nuanced.

Yesterday I threw on "The Beatles" (which everyone refers to as the White album.) I've always considered it to be a pretty sloppy album sounding album, with respect to both performance and production. The Mono version has a much sharper focus and a tighter, more finished feel.

But with all of this said, thus far the sonic stunner is their first album, "Please Please Me."

RGibran
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Intresting contrast of comments from audiophiles in THIS THREAD to the same audiophile comments here. Somehow plain ole redbook MONO CD seems good enough to wet the lizard!

RG

Buddha
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Got my hands on a set...

Never really had in my mind a ranking of their albums, but as I was thinking about listening order, I'm gonna go:

Rubber Soul
Revolver
Sgt. Pepper
White Album
Etc...

Kind of excited!

jazzfan
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Quote:
Got my hands on a set...

Never really had in my mind a ranking of their albums, but as I was thinking about listening order, I'm gonna go:

Rubber Soul
Revolver
Sgt. Pepper
White Album
Etc...

Kind of excited!

Buddha,

Not to nit-pick or anything but I much prefer "Etc..." over either "Revolver" or the "White Album". As a matter of fact "Etc.." is so often underrated (at best) or overlooked (at worst, heaven forbid!!) that I'm beginning to think that many people do not even consider it to be a legitimate Beatles album, let alone one of their must stunning works. In any event, at least you put it up there in your top five. Good work!

Buddha
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Well, the sound is not at all 'gynecologic.'

Made it through Revolver, so far.

Oddly, and it may be because it's been a while since I listened to the album, the tempos seem to have picked up!

If this were vinyl, I'd be checking my speed. Seems like the top end is a little tilted up, too - but the Love Soundtrack gave me the same impression.

Quite clean, but not fully fleshed out - I still want more.

Background vocals are very well delineated, however!

The guitar sounds are also more detailed - sounds closer to listening to an 'actual' electric guitar.

Wish I could rewind my brain to the living room Magnavox the first time I heard them to compare.

Yeah, the guitars seem more prominnent in the mix. I wonder if they mixed Ringo's vocal down in Yellow Submarine.

Much more an impression of a band making music, which I mean as a compliment.

This Yellow Submarine mix really shows the Admiral Halsey sound Paul used later!

She Said She Said has a little glare.

Blah blah blah.

Can't wait for the high rez!

Buddha
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Man, some of those shitty stereo effects are terrible, and distracting.

Gotta get my hands on a mono set.

Tomorrow Never Knows is a mess.

mrlowry
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Here's a cool video that shows some of the more dramatic differences between the mono and stereo versions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0p6tOVlKK8&feature=player_embedded

Freako
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Having most of the old LP's and having bought some of the remastered CD's individually recently, a question pops up in my mind. Why would they release all of the albums in mono?

Somewhere along the line, Beatles started using Ferrograph Super Seven 2-track tape recorders, which explains the strange mixes of some of the albums (bass in one speaker only etc).

These albums (can't really say precisely when they started using the Ferrographs) are meant to be released in stereo. Why remixing in mono? They could as easily have mixed those albums in stereo, staying true to the original mixes. Anyone?

Buddha
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Quote:
Having most of the old LP's and having bought some of the remastered CD's individually recently, a question pops up in my mind. Why would they release all of the albums in mono?

Somewhere along the line, Beatles started using Ferrograph Super Seven 2-track tape recorders, which explains the strange mixes of some of the albums (bass in one speaker only etc).

These albums (can't really say precisely when they started using the Ferrographs) are meant to be released in stereo. Why remixing in mono? They could as easily have mixed those albums in stereo, staying true to the original mixes. Anyone?

As I recall, up to the White Album, all the original mixes were mono, and were the mixes The Beatles themselves listened to to decide upon the final sound of the album.

For many, the mono versions are the 'truest' to what The Beatles intended.

Of course, the best answer to your question would be, "We should have both!"

Interestingly, a single CD could hold the mono and stereo version of each album, I think (excepting the White Album.) But, there's money to be made this way.

mrlowry
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Quote:
Having most of the old LP's and having bought some of the remastered CD's individually recently, a question pops up in my mind. Why would they release all of the albums in mono?

Somewhere along the line, Beatles started using Ferrograph Super Seven 2-track tape recorders, which explains the strange mixes of some of the albums (bass in one speaker only etc).

These albums (can't really say precisely when they started using the Ferrographs) are meant to be released in stereo. Why remixing in mono? They could as easily have mixed those albums in stereo, staying true to the original mixes. Anyone?

George Martin and The Beatles spent days, sometimes weeks mixing the mono version of most of their albums. The stereo mixes were done usually by an assistant engineer. Sometimes it was even worse, the stereo mix was done by an apprentice engineer. Paul McCartney briefly mentions this in the extra material on The Beatles Anthology DVDs. Saying roughly, "the stereo mixes were done one day while we (George Martin, the producer and The Beatles) were at lunch." With the exceptions of "Yellow Submarine", "Let It Be", and "Abbey Road" the mono mix was the baby. The stereo mix was the bastard redheaded stepchild at best.

At first blush this sounds like a massive oversight. But as Mr. McCartney goes on to point out ". . . ninety-Eight percent of people were listening in mono." Stereo was new, many thought it was a fad and wouldn't last. Many Hi-Fi enthusiasts resisted it in the beginning. It meant a serious amount of money needed to be spent. They were forced to buy another amplifier, another speaker, a new preamplifier, and a new turntable.

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Great info! Thx Buddha and mrlowry

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