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This thread is about the CES Blog? How does it happen that, no matter what a thread starts out being, it ends up being about something else? Why can't we let people believe what they believe and get back to talking about audio?

Enough of the thought police! Has everyone truly extracted every last bit of information from our incredibly comprehensive show coverage that they possibly can?

jason

Jason,

We were talking about CES coverage and Andy got the picture taken at CES that showed the real scoop (poop scoop). Alas, that picture had been deleted... sigh...

Seriously though, the CES coverage has become a joke. I think CES has become a joke. There is only so much you can take as far as higher priced components. I'm not railing against high priced components, I'm ranting against the kind of thing that's just so ludicrous that it defies all sensibilities. $60k cables? $200k speakers? $900 metal feet? WTF? The argument that "expensive is in the eye of the beholder" only goes so far. Who's your audience? Does your audience see $60k reasonable accessories or does your audience consist of people with $15k systems? You want to cover $60k cables? - ok. However, if your coverage consists of shit like that you're going to get this kind of push back.

Dude, just go down to Best Buy and walk the aisles for your own personal CES!

I bet you complain that porn should use more plain chicks so it better relates to people's real worlds.

OK, joking aside, why the kvetching?

Are you appointing yourself "Czar of Hi Fi Value" and you'll "push back" when coverage is not to your liking?

Just enjoy the parade of middle aged white guys posing for pictures holding a piece of wire.

What I wanna know is when one of those geniuses will start posing in a white "Matthew Polk" lab coat.

In wine coverage, we get pictures of guys holding 50,000 dollars bottles of vino that you could transpose with the pics of the manufacturers holding their cables - the luxury market exists everywhere. At least with cables, you can enjoy them more than once!

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Furthermore, by covering these "products", Stereophile is lending their implicit support and credence to this bizarro world. It's insulting. It's insulting to our intelligence and it makes light of the real economic suffering out there the same way Marie-Antoinette did when she said "Let them eat cake!"

Phooey. You sound like someone who couldn't land a job as head of George W. Bush's National Security team. The more you repeat this same tired line over and over again, despite every reasonable explanation under the sun as to why I blogged that room and John posted the blog -- the more you hurl insults at us and impugn our integrity -- the more ridiculous you appear.

As for your accusation that we make light of real economic suffering, what makes you think that, in the case of this freelance music journalist, the suffering is "out there?" Even if I were well off, which I am not, what gives you the idea that I don't devote countless hours per week serving members of the impoverished community in which I reside? You are completely off base.

This will be my last reply to your bullwaste. You can spout these preposterous accusations until the cows come home. They have no basis in fact.

jason victor serinus

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I bet you complain that porn should use more plain chicks so it better relates to people's real worlds.

No, I complain that chicks in porn are too old and wear too much bad makeup and that the US porn industry should embrace the European porn chick model.

So, you are offended by expensive cables in tough times, but are hip to an industry that does what to young women?

60,000 dollar cables are offensive, but...

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OK, joking aside, why the kvetching?

Are you appointing yourself "Czar of Hi Fi Value" and you'll "push back" when coverage is not to your liking?

Just enjoy the parade of middle aged white guys posing for pictures holding a piece of wire.

Honestly, it's pissing me off. It's pissing me off that in this economy, when people are losing their life savings, their homes, their retirement money, these f'ers have the audacity to peddle a $60k piece of wire! I don't mind the luxury market. You want to cater to a luxury market? Fine, f'ing build something! Anything! Build a speaking a-hole with a friggin' gold accent, build a hi-fi cuckoo clock, anything! But to package a friggin' piece of wire and peddle it for $60k is obscene.

Furthermore, by covering these "products", Stereophile is lending their implicit support and credence to this bizarro world. It's insulting. It's insulting to our intelligence and it makes light of the real economic suffering out there the same way Marie-Antoinette did when she said "Let them eat cake!"

Dude, plenty of people would call a 50 dollar cable offensive, or a thousand dollar turntable.

Specialty Hi Fi at any price level in times of economic hardship is the height of indifference.

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Furthermore, by covering these "products", Stereophile is lending their implicit support and credence to this bizarro world. It's insulting. It's insulting to our intelligence and it makes light of the real economic suffering out there the same way Marie-Antoinette did when she said "Let them eat cake!"

I do not object to the high end coverage. I love reading that stuff. I just object to the pretense that luxury car priced items are 'budget', 'moderately priced' or 'worth the money'.

Folk have noted similarities in the luxury watch, auto, wine and even porn industries but none of those try to pretend the stuff discussed is in any way rational or 'budget'. Often the absurdity of the price is its reason to exist. If you have to ask about cost, you cannot afford it.

They are astoundingly expensive toys that often reflect the state of the art but are not for normal, or even modestly well to do folk. They are a niche and their reviewers seem to understand that. Ours too often pretend $100K gear produced in numbers one can count on ones fingers are real audiophile gear...no, it is Maharajah gear and most of us are not addressed as 'Your Highness'.

Please cover this stuff but don't pretend the gear has any real audiophile base. Few if any of us will ever even see the thing, much less hear it or own it.

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Please cover this stuff but don't pretend the gear has any real audiophile base. Few if any of us will ever even see the thing, much less hear it or own it.

Dahlink. Who's pretending? But it is interesting to note that, while Circuit City goes under, the expensive stuff is still selling.

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.no, it is Maharajah gear and most of us are not addressed as 'Your Highness'.

Gosh, that's just what my husband calls me!!!! Now I have a reason to demand $60,000 cables. Only problem is, we'd have to mortgage our house, and then there would be place to put them except in my grave....

Selling yes...but how many units? $100K amps that sell a dozen in their lifetime are not a market but a rich mans pretense. The hobby is not measured in dozens of sales but tens of thousands.

Alex, I have you on ignore so all I see are the fragments of your posts in other people's replies to you. From what I can see of your posts I would say the one thing the CES coverage and porn have in common is you don't have to look at it if it offends you.

So stop looking and stop bitchin'.

oh yes, I forgot to mention that I also totally disagree with Mr. Winer's "naked gal acoustics lesson". as a male I find the guys that indulge in such things an embarrassment and a huge evolutionary step backwards for our gender. I've never mentioned it before, but I was really shocked to see such a thing on Mr. Winer's site. I had him painted in my mind as someone with refined manners and tastes and an appropriate level of respect for women, so I was totally floored when he posted that, I mean *really* shocked. The whole thing made me feel very uncomfortable.. at any rate, I was probably one of the few(maybe the only?) who felt that way, but it is what it is. Again, that does not sully my respect for him re things audio, but I did want to mention it. Was anyone else a bit shocked to see that?

I don't frequent Winer's site and didn't know this video actually existed. I thought it was a joke when I first heard Ethan mention it. Then it was sent to me as a "check this out".

Shocked?

No.

Revolted?

You bet.

Confirm my opinion of Winer?

In every way.

Well, I was very , very shocked..sort of changed my view of him. He seems to be an intelligent, respectful guy, plays Cello, Composes,writes code, all those things one associates with a intellect and refinement... Seeing that thing sent my conceptions of him crashing to the ground. It was crass, disrespectful, and in poor taste. In my mind it was sort of like catching my college theatre mentor(a mensa member, published poet, a real fountain of knowledge) smoking crack... just a "that doesnt belong here" moment, especially given his age and marital status.

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Seeing that thing sent my conceptions of him crashing to the ground. It was crass, disrespectful, and in poor taste.

Please post a link . I went to his site and couldn't find it.

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Please cover this stuff but don't pretend the gear has any real audiophile base. Few if any of us will ever even see the thing, much less hear it or own it.

Dahlink. Who's pretending? But it is interesting to note that, while Circuit City goes under, the expensive stuff is still selling.

That's because Nero's fiddling sounds so lifelike with 60,000 dollar speaker cables.

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That's because Nero's fiddling sounds so lifelike with 60,000 dollar speaker cables.

LOL! Or maybe they don't realize yet that somebody Madoff with their money.

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oh yes, I forgot to mention that I also totally disagree with Mr. Winer's "naked gal acoustics lesson". as a male I find the guys that indulge in such things an embarrassment and a huge evolutionary step backwards for our gender. I've never mentioned it before, but I was really shocked to see such a thing on Mr. Winer's site. I had him painted in my mind as someone with refined manners and tastes and an appropriate level of respect for women, so I was totally floored when he posted that, I mean *really* shocked. The whole thing made me feel very uncomfortable.. at any rate, I was probably one of the few(maybe the only?) who felt that way, but it is what it is. Again, that does not sully my respect for him re things audio, but I did want to mention it. Was anyone else a bit shocked to see that?

NC, if you read a biography of Mozart and read his letters you would be far more shocked. M was an extremely scatological person, to say the least.

Ayn Rand would say that this a free market issue and that society should be left to work this out for itself without you "nannying" it for others.

Yup, that's what Ayn would say.

Chuck Norris would say the same thing, so watch your step, buddy.

andy

http://exposed.ethanwiner.com/ate.htm

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I was really shocked to see such a thing on Mr. Winer's site. I had him painted in my mind as someone with refined manners and tastes and an appropriate level of respect for women

All of those are still true. I'm a huge defender of women's rights, and I code and maintain as a volunteer web sites for two local groups that help abused women.

Most people got a chuckle from my naked video, though a few like you were offended. Look, I did it mostly as a goof, just for fun. And the talent was glad for the work and compensated very nicely.

What is it about sex that makes some people so uptight?

--Ethan

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What is it about sex that makes some people so uptight?

I'm working from memory and not having been able to watch the whole mess here, but ... In this case nothing is wrong with the "sex" in that video, there is no "sex" as you care to call it. It's an attractive woman and an unattractive manchild staking out an attitude that makes that vaguely sado-maschochistic production offensive in many ways. It's the adolescent, "not too bright females as objects" viewpoint expressed by that bit of work that is distasteful. It's that you think it's humorous that is unbelievable. It's the cheesiness of the idea that just makes me want to turn it off. It is the idea a grown man who supposedly runs a business with principles finding this the best way to promote his "services" that is the tipping point.

Show it to a few of the abused women you are so careful to "defend" and ask them what's wrong with what you did. Show it to every male client and their wife during your pre-sales introduction and see how well your sales do. I can't imagine even one of them having a chuckle at your very lame, very outdated "humor". Even Phyllis Schaffly would tell you to get out and take your refrigerator doors with you.

You ain't no Benny Hill, Winer, and even he's now 50 years behind the times.

You really need to put me on ignore. Please?

Like I said before, someone like you needs to be where everyone can keep an eye on you. You ask a question and then don't want the reply you get.

Go ahead, show it to a few abused women and then explain why you think this is humorous. And be as specific as possible.

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andy

http://exposed.ethanwiner.com

Thanks. Seems to be down at the moment. Bummer!

Yeah, sorry about that. I got an email this morning from the web host saying all of their servers will be down for about 4 hours today. I expect it to be back up later today. The place that hosts all of my other sites does maintenance only in the middle of the night. Which is a much better way to do it!

Also, the correct link for people to post is:

http://exposed.ethanwiner.com/

The other link bypasses the Warning page, which I put there on purpose to avoid offending those that might be offended!

--Ethan

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you didn't use your wife to make that video. Or a daughter or favorite niece...It gets really creepy when you think about it in those terms. No?

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Look, I did it mostly as a goof, just for fun. And the talent was glad for the work and compensated very nicely.

There's so much wrong there I don't where to start. But next time you decide to tell someone they're foolish for spending too much money on hifi, remind yourself how much you paid that woman to strip for you. You know, just as a goof.

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There's so much wrong there I don't where to start. But next time you decide to tell someone they're foolish for spending too much money on hifi, remind yourself how much you paid that woman to strip for you. You know, just as a goof.

Winer, why don't you have everyone who finds your humor distasteful put you on permanent ignore? There's some logic to that.

LOL, it's obvious you're just jealous, and wish it was you getting up close 'n' personal with Eliza.

Agree, and not PC making it very American.

"up close 'n' personal"?

With some woman you paid to strip? This is getting creepier by the minute Ethan.

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I thought the video was fine. It was goofy and harmless.

I completely disagree. It was trashy, denigrating to women, and had nothing to do with anything acoustics.. I have two daughters and a wife whom I respect very much, and I shudder to think that there are people out there that enjoy this stuff. It is one thing to enjoy the female form in the privacy of your own home, but exploting it for one's own agenda is disgusting. Same with strip bars.

"Doesn't it make you hot? God, I just love a good diffuser!"

Oh, Ethan, you are just too much.

My big complaints are:

1. It's Spouse Acceptance Factor, not WAF. David will not accept being called my wife!

2. The art of whistling has been degraded by the reference. Hey, I continue to do it for a living.

On the other hand, I love the strobe lights whirling around Ethan's head. I consider this a sign from on high that he is not of this planet.

Oh my f***ing god. She's naked. I think I need to go walk the dog. Any dog.

I've hit the wrong thing somewhere and closed the window so I can't see the end. Am I better off?

My favorite part of the video was seeing Ethan bound and gagged for so long. How can anyone complain about that?

I can understand how some are righteously offended by this video, and others find it hilarious. There are many truths. For me, what rings true through it all is that Ethan is so out there that there's no use complaining. Unless he is hauled in by the FCC, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, resistance is futile.

jason

for me, the whole thing smacks of "dirty, creepy old guy" , not what I pictured Mr. Winer to be, a respectful, intelligent person with respect for women...

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I thought the video was fine. It was goofy and harmless.

I gotta go along with that.
It was like a Geico commercial: Room treatment is so easy to understand, a stripper can do it.

The binding and gagging of Ethan was a (bonus, and a) funny way to get him to shut up, and didn't strike me as being S&M based, but if that's already on someone's mind, good for them.

I know the reason Ethan didn't use family for the stripper role - just look at Ethan! Him not using family is not a fair criticism. We should be thanking him, not berating him.

The woman in the video could have done the exact same performance in a business suit. The fact that she was naked was what some might call a visual non sequitir, and gets the viewer's attention on what, for some, can be a dry subject.

For you hens:

Guess which manufacturer's site has this female torture scene:

Here's one from the same site:

Looks like he included Ethan, as well!

Are the delicate flowers whose sensibilities were devastated by Ethan's naked chick upset that Geico 'objectivizes' hirsute men?

Buddha. You live in Las Vegas.

And for the record, I was not offended by the video which I didn't get through out of pure disinterest. I must go tend to my hens and delicate flowers now.

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Are the delicate flowers whose sensibilities were devastated by Ethan's naked chick upset that Geico 'objectivizes' hirsute men?

I am hardly a "delicate flower",(how I would love to be called that face to face!) as anyone who knows me(more especially my army buddies) will attest, but I am not a neanderthal cave dwelling knuckle dragger, either. If my respecting women enough not to look at them as some sort of object for uncivilized males amusement makes me "delicate", well, so be it. I know a lot of women who would agree with me. There are always the alpha male frat boy types who find this sort of thing amusing, or enticing, I know,,but not this guy.

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LOL, it's obvious you're just jealous, and wish it was you getting up close 'n' personal with Eliza.

I don't expect Ethan Winer to ever appologize for being a creep. But I wish you wouldn't continue to prove just how much of an adolescent creep you really are.

All of you who think this is "just fine" need to ask your female partners what they think of this. This is not a guy thing, this is a right or wrong thing.

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Are the delicate flowers whose sensibilities were devastated by Ethan's naked chick upset that Geico 'objectivizes' hirsute men?

I am hardly a "delicate flower",(how I would love to be called that face to face!) as anyone who knows me(more especially my army buddies) will attest, but I am not a neanderthal cave dwelling knuckle dragger, either. If my respecting women enough not to look at them as some sort of object for uncivilized males amusement makes me "delicate", well, so be it. I know a lot of women who would agree with me. There are always the alpha male frat boy types who find this sort of thing amusing, or enticing, I know,,but not this guy.

Says the 'alpha male' who needs to fall back on 'army buddies' to back him up.

Well, if my woman respecting weight lifting body builder patriotic America loving macho totally hetero in touch with their true masculinity doting husband father of several children hard working real men Marine veteran buddies are to be believed, it was harmless.

So there ya have it.

Really, you were offended by what some audio nerd does for a product video?

That is the sign of a life perfectly balanced....until Ethan came along and wrecked it.

Yup. Much ado over nothing.

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Yup. Much ado over nothing.

Well, the video really upset me........................you have to wait soooooooooooo
long before she gets her clothes off.

That's why I dumped my last girlfriend.

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Are the delicate flowers whose sensibilities were devastated by Ethan's naked chick upset that Geico 'objectivizes' hirsute men?

I am hardly a "delicate flower",(how I would love to be called that face to face!) as anyone who knows me(more especially my army buddies) will attest, but I am not a neanderthal cave dwelling knuckle dragger, either. If my respecting women enough not to look at them as some sort of object for uncivilized males amusement makes me "delicate", well, so be it. I know a lot of women who would agree with me. There are always the alpha male frat boy types who find this sort of thing amusing, or enticing, I know,,but not this guy.

Says the 'alpha male' who needs to fall back on 'army buddies' to back him up.

Well, if my woman respecting weight lifting body builder patriotic America loving macho totally hetero in touch with their true masculinity doting husband father of several children hard working real men Marine veteran buddies are to be believed, it was harmless.

So there ya have it.

Really, you were offended by what some audio nerd does for a product video?

That is the sign of a life perfectly balanced....until Ethan came along and wrecked it.

you know what, guy, you really come off as an cocky prick at times. It isn't really an "open" sort of dickheadedness, more an overall sense of condescension in each of your posts,, which is the worse type, really. .. ironic, really, given what you've chosen as your moniker here. Maybe you arent a cocky prick, maybe you are just a clown completely unaware as to how you come off.., but there you have it. I dont care what your marine buddies think of the video, really. I have friends who would eat it up too, but those facts are irrelevant.. To each his own, but I found the video crass and offensive. This being a discussion forum and all, I figured I would *discuss* how I felt about it.... Your "re "delicate flower" comment was out of line, really. Total asshole move, "Buddha".

My own behavior online is governed by how I interact in the real world, that is to say that I avoid saying things online that I would not say in person... and I sorta doubt you run around in the physical world shooting off at the mouth like that.

just like the following comment:

"That is the sign of a life perfectly balanced....until Ethan came along and wrecked it." .

again, complete asshole move. Are you even aware? Surely you do not act like that in person....

and no, it didnt "wreck my life" as you stated, but it did sicken me a bit. Maybe it is my upbringing and all, having been taught to respect women, say ma'am , sir, open the doors for them, take off my hat when inside, that sort of thing....

anyway, it is just as well with me, your viewing the video as harmless, "funny" (I seem to recall you hooping and hollering" when it was first posted), but for you to sit there behind that screen of yours and have the gall to insult me with your "delicate flower" comment gives me plenty of insight as to what kind of person you are.

to sum up, dont be a dickhead.. Giving your opinion is fine, but the extra stuff, way out of line.

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Yup. Much ado over nothing.

now see, thats cool. You said what you had to say, sidestepping the whole asshole thing. Good on you.

I wont lose sleep over this video, I havent called a help line or anything...

I would assume that Ethan would want to get feedback on his videos..... and I know I aint alone in my thinking.

And the topic drifts on...

Too many posts to comment on, and who cares anyway. But I do like Jason's post:

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It's Spouse Acceptance Factor, not WAF. David will not accept being called my wife!

Fair enough. I always figured that 99.9 percent of the viewers would be guys, but failed to consider the much larger percentage of gays.

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My favorite part of the video was seeing Ethan bound and gagged for so long. How can anyone complain about that?

Exactly!

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resistance is futile.

That too.

Good show all around guys. All comments are welcome except maybe Jan's. As they say, any publicity is good publicity, just be sure to spell my name right. But again, I did it as a goof, just for fun. If someone else had done it first I probably wouldn't have bothered. But really, it needed to be done!

And Buddha, you're right on the money about my family. I think my wife is still very attractive, but she's pushing 60 for god's sake.

--Ethan