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September 30, 2008 - 10:59am
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Why does Stereophile not recommend a single Martin Logan speaker?
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I recall there have been some favorable reviews. However there have often been issues of integration with the dynamic driver.
The last MartinLogan speaker we reviewed was the Montage -- see www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/505ml -- in May 2005. The review was overall positive, but pointed out some problems. MartinLogan were sufficiently upset by the review that they decided no longer to cooperate with Stereophile by sending us further samples for review.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
"MartinLogan were sufficiently upset by the review that they decided no longer to cooperate with Stereophile by sending us further samples for review."
Wow- talk about sour grapes. And almost everyone I know who is familiar with the brand also knows about their driver integration issues, not to mention how exceedingly difficult they can be to power. They can be great speakers, but are not as easy to own as some I think.
I guess Martin Logan asking Stereophile, "What do you think?" is the same set up as someone's wife asking if a certain dress makes her (insert body part here) look fat.
One wrong answer and it's curtains!
(Get it? Dress, fat, curtains?
)
Since Gayle Sanders sold the company they lost their magic touch somewhat. Gayle was a very good salesman, he had charisma, not unlike Dave Wilson. Think of Wilson without Dave Wilson (I personally don't like Wilson's speakers), Krell without Dan D'Agostino. As subwoofers got better and better I also think that their best speaker ever was their original CLS mated to the right subwoofer, not the Monolith, not any of their hybrib speakers. That is a small niche market! Their hybrid speakers were no match to B&W new Nautilus cone speakers when they came out (even Wilson speakers were no match to the Nautilus series) even more so for home theater as Martin-Logan tried hard to push their speakers into that direction (the first high end speaker manufacturer to do so). Gayle Sanders at least produced beautiful hybrid speakers, and of course the CLS. I don't care for Martin-Logan speakers now.
Let me start off by saying that I own Martin Logan's (CLS's which are full range Electrostats in case anyone is curious) for a number of years Martin Logan has been drifting towards a market position of "life style" product (think bose, nakamichi, and B&O.) A lot of the stuff that they are currently putting their name on no knowledgeable person could call "High-End" with a straight face. It's sad really.
It really bothers me that Martin Logan decided to not provide future review samples. That review was both fair and over all positive. For them to nitpick about some deserved criticism about driver integration is juvenile on their part. Every hybrid electrostatic/dynamic driver design is going to struggle with that integration, for them not to acknowledge that fact is to deny the very laws of physics.
The manufacturer's response to the review was very measured and cordial. At which point did they decide that they wouldn't provide any more samples for review? How did that response manifest itself?
John,
Thanks for the reply. My initial thought was that there had to have been some kind of falling out between the parties involved.
However this leads me to another question: if the only components that are reviewed are the ones supplied by the manufacturer how can the review be truly objective?
Along this same (lack of understanding on my part and) general topic, lies the question: are these components given or loaned, and is the reviewer offered a special purchase option?
Respectfully,
Scott
Here we go again. I'm sure that JA has something he can cut and paste by now.
I think JA should start an FAQ+A with that.
Kal
Question: are you new to audio and do you have a turntable? Here it is synonymous.
Good idea. A good sticky.
Guys I'm sorry if I'm asking the 'same old question'. If it has already been answered please point me to it.
I'm not trying to cause any problems. I'm just curious. I'm sure there many factors that influence which components are reviewed not the least of which might be cost if one had to buy them.
Again, I'm just curious as to how it works.
I guess I don't know what you are asking.
If you are shooting at a loaded question it seems to have backfired.
It would seem to me that if someone has a turntable today it is because they have had a positive experience probably in their (distant) past.
If you are suggesting that Stereophile has become completely focused on digital and that I must be new to audio if I just found that out, then you are right.
No I don't have a turntable.
No problem, Scott. It just happens to be a question that comes up a lot. You come across as simply curious. In the past others have had an agenda to pursue. Thus the reaction.
Ignore Grosse Fatigue. He delights in insulting others and baiting them to fight with him, think 8 year old bully on the playground with a self esteem problem. While quite articulate, English is not his native tongue and, thus, at times it can be difficult to understand what he intends to express.
Scott-
I wasn't rolling my eyes at your comment, more at the comments that it will illicit from the "Usual Suspects" that look for opportunities to question the integrity of Stereophile. Stereophile's Editor, John Adkinson (known affectionately as JA) articulated his editorial policy can be read here http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/366/ and this thread went into it in depth http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=41597&an=0&page=1#Post41597
Most old timers have actually either put away their turntables, moved away from vinyl, sometimes selling a sizable collection of discs and turntables to newbies just like you who get sucked into vinyl reading Stereophile.
In the past when Gordon Holt was still at Stereophile and before Mickey Fremer came to Stereophile, this magazine was firmly pro CD and digital, later on pushing SACD as much as they could, abandonning CD altogether and shooting themselves in the foot in the process. Martin Colloms said the exact same thing 10 years ago.
After telling us pages after pages how good SACD sounded versus CD before it failed, it was hard for them to go back to CD with a straight face so they reinvented vinyl. Hope I am articulate enough for Elk to understand.
I think you're doing pretty well.
I'll wait for SACD and DVD-A to make a resurgence!!!!!! Wow, 2 "old" formats that should make a comeback next year....gonna be a new craze. What's old is new again, before it's even old at all.
Thank you mrlowry. I now have a better understanding. And I also agree with Kal.
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
Carl Jung
I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully
- G W Bush
Much better than your previous post.
"The Smoker You Drink, the Player You Get"
- Joe Walsh
Scott, Anyone who quotes Jung and Joe Walsh in the same thread has all the requisite wit and intelligence to joust with the best and worst on this forum. Good job, young man!