CECE
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Vinyl resurgence 45 RPM, snap crackle pop, PLAY this!!!!
mrlowry
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Look at the piece of shit turntable the guy was using. So what's your point? Is it that a shitty turntable can cause noisy reproduction? If that's it I totally agree.

CECE
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TT's don't make snap crackle POP, only reproduce it. Do you know what I mean?

michaelavorgna
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Great song.

As to your point for posting it:

Elk
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Quote:
TT's don't make snap crackle POP, only reproduce it. Do you know what I mean?


Actually, the quality of the TT, arm and cartridge have a tremendous influence on whether there will be noise on playback.

CECE
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Don't think the stylus or cartridges removes ticks and scrathes in the goove or surface of a record....even the Stanton brushes do minimal dust catching......how does the tone arm take care of the snaps pops and clicks in an LP? this has to be from what maker with magic tone arms now. It cannot remove the built in surface noise. Now if you are speaking of electrically induced noise hum etc, that is part of the cartridge, interacting with the phono pre amp...in teh record itslef, nope. If you of ocurse use teh wrong stylus say, one for 78's (which why anyone whould have such a best?) for 33 1/3 mechanically they are wrong together, that's not what it's meant to say. A noisey record is noisey.

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Stanton, that's so 1960s... Is that how current you are DUP? BTW, you clean the record before playing. The Stanton was aimed at lazy listeners that didn't clean their records.

Did someone say that a tonearm reduces noise? I missed that if they did.

Actually many new styli somehow do reduce surface noise. I suspect it has to do with no profiles getting deeper into the grooves and avoid prior wear. Ever how they do it, it's pretty easy to hear.

Dave

CECE
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Stanton had CS100 pretty great sounding cartridge, priced on this planet.

dcstep
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Quote:
Stanton had CS100 pretty great sounding cartridge, priced on this planet.

Many, many moons ago, amigo.

Jim Tavegia
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I still have a Stanton 881S, that for it's price of $129, is a decent bargain. They still offer the 681EEE for that price off Needle Doctor. Regardless, audiophiles did not use the attached brush to "clean" their records, it simply was there and came along for the ride.

Now the Shure type IV and V 15 Type V-MR's dynamic stabilizer, and last offering the M97XE does as well, did "some?" disc demagnatization (their claim not mine.) On the Type VMR I sold with my Dual CS 5000 years ago, if I recall, it did seem to make some difference, but I also used a ZeroStat at that time as well.

My guess is that the Stantons (881 and 681) are probably in the same league as the less than $200 Grados and possibly others, but I do not think that anyone kids themselves and claims them to be even Class C in ranking. Listenable, Yes, but not nearly the best of the best. I do not think they are as good as an Ortofon X5-MC I have enjoyed in the past or the Shure type VMR.

I think this is what makes the Marantz TT offering a great buy as it is the Cart that sets that TT apart from others at the $1600 price point. No one would put a Stanton on that table and expect the same results. To me it makes more sense to put a $1K cart on a $1K table than a $500 cart on a $1500 table. Here is where the fun can start...at least for me anyway. Again, this is why the Music Hall 9.1 package is agreat buy.

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Quote:
Don't think the stylus or cartridges removes ticks and scrathes in the goove or surface of a record

My friend Pete had been complaining that some of his old records were noisy and often skipped. Thinking they might simply be dirty, I offered to clean them for him. Before I did, I gave them a listen on the Rega P3 with Denon DL-103 cartridge. I started with the record that was giving Pete the most trouble: Bowie's Let's Dance. Right from the start, I was impressed by the big sound of the drums and the excellent presence of the guitars and vocals. Great stuff. I played the album from beginning to end, and it sounded wonderful without a single skip and very little noise. I shrugged and cleaned it anyway. It sounded even better afterwards. Pete listened, too, and was very happy.

He took his albums back to his place and played them on his vintage Newcomb portable record player. Still skipping like mad and noisy as hell.

Pretty awesome what a good turntable can do.

Elk
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Exactly my point.

I love it when I am right!

CECE
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Don't believe it. How does the TT take out snaps, clicks, pops from a scratched up LP? Surface noise is in the vinyl, how does the TT change that? What is a portable record player, like they had in the 50's and 60's made out of cardboard? to play 45's?. Steven, did you miss the 50's 60's early 70's? cus there is no reason for vinyl in the 21st century. They don't make 1962 Valiants either from Plymouth, even Plymouth is gone. If you are talking bout things like a lousy noisey rumbly TT, then play onto a better TT, of course the rumble is gone, snap crackle pop....or if some really crappy TT, is speed off, of course everything will sound off....the snap crackle pop, from a scratch, is still there on the LP. SNAP!

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Quote:
Don't believe it. How does the TT take out snaps, clicks, pops from a scratched up LP? Surface noise is in the vinyl, how does the TT change that?

I don't understand it either, but somewhere in this equation, you're wrong.

I do know that it works. I suspect it has something to do with the cartridge's tracking ability. Maybe someone here who is more experienced with the technical aspects of analog reproduction can explain.

Another example: My uncle Omar has a Rega P1 with the supplied Ortofon cartridge. It's very rare, but he does experiences a skip every now and then. The same records on my system do not skip.

Elk
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Quote:
How does the TT take out snaps, clicks, pops from a scratched up LP?


Better equipment is not thrown by little imperfections.

The rear end of a standard coupe will step out when subjected to a bump on a tight entrance ramp. The car has difficulty turning, accelerating and handling road imperfections simultaneously. This is especially if it is front wheel drive.

A high performance car will track the bump without difficulty, while at the same time turning and accelerating.

The bump is present in both cases but the better equipment has no difficulty dealing with it.

CECE
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If the Lp is scratched, and it doesn't play the scratch, you must have limited high freq ressponse system, if the speakers can play out to beyond 20K along with teh electronics, a scratch will certainly be heard. Isn't this the same argument you throw out, that if i can't hear wires, my system isn't "revealing" enough. Tracking ability on a warped record is easily explained with a better tone arm, i think my 3 VPI JMW arms would qulaify as decent, I never have a skip problem, the scratch surface noise etc is in teh groove, teh tone arm ain't taking it away, maybe a better cartridge reproduces what's in teh groove, and certainly a different stylus shape plays a different position in teh groove, if teh groove has a large enough scratch, it's not gonna be missed, unless your system is deficient in transinet response that blurs past stuff. How can you hear how a wire sounds, yet you can't hear the noise in an LP? Maybe you have politican ears, you only hear what you want to...hardly critical listening, another "audiophil;e" thing i thought you all had. I just listen, and i can hear all defects, etc.....Then ya put on the CD or SACD of the same recording and all of a sudden, it's the 21st century.....And 99.9999% of my LP's are pristine, no touches in over 30 years, and when even a brand new super duper overpriced LP, on magic heavy vinyl, has a snap.....it's a DEFECT. I do have a few that are quiet, but that is the rarity...Maybe your system ain't "revealing enough" back at ya. But then mine must be STABLE enough that wires have no sound....they ain't better than digital, that's for sure.

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Audi A6 with Quattro takes care of all that crap....but i also bet if you have crappy tires on a better car it also will loose it, part of the system, so if you have some super duper TT and arm and cartridge, you put lousy tires on it (crappy vinyl with pops snaps clicks) it sounds like crap....And it's way too easy for LP's to develop those problems, they are obsolete, like a car without EFI or disc brakes, obsolete and un useable. How come most LP's are copied onto digital, but no one is taking their CD's and converting them to an LP? If teh Lp sounds so much better. And most recording artists when they talk about how the ANALOG sound is what they prefer, yeah, they are listening to reel reel 2" tapes done at 30IPS, not some crap record....

michaelavorgna
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Sheesh DUP. Are you saying you've spent all this time and money putting together a system and you can't even enjoy listening to records on it? Damn! No wonder you're ranting nearly incoherently. I feel for you. I know guys who've spent probably 1/5th of what you've shelled out and they enjoy listening to records, CDs, SACDs, radio...

Jim Tavegia
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I was hoping for more, but...

Hey, Jim. I think a better way to portray what

Elk
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Quote:
Isn't this the same argument you throw out, that if i can't hear wires, my system isn't "revealing" enough.


I've never written this.

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Audi A6 with Quattro takes care of all that crap....


I wish, but over two tons of sedan with a luxury tuned suspension is hardly going to do the job, even when it's not in the shop. Carl, you know little of autos. Let's not bother going there again.

So let's get back to audio.


Quote:
but i also bet if you have crappy tires on a better car it also will loose it, part of the system, so if you have some super duper TT and arm and cartridge, you put lousy tires on it (crappy vinyl with pops snaps clicks) it sounds like crap....


This isn't the analogy. The tires are the cartridge, not the LP. The road is the LP.

The better the chassis, suspension and tires the better the car can handle road imperfections.

The better the TT, arm and cartridge the better it can handle minor imperfections in the LP.

No one claims that even the best equipment can "fix" a dreadful LP, only that better equipment will reveal more music and can better handle flaws.

This isn't a complicated concept.

I'm sure your system is sufficiently resolving to reveal the differences. Just keep the EQ out of the reproduction chain.

CECE
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I gots records, i gots Cd's I gots SACD i gots DVD-A, i gots, I gots to enjoy. But the ultimate enjoy is DSD/DVD-A Or even some of my own LIVE recordings at a mere 48Khz 24 bit, I am gonna finally do a DSD live recording next time....but it uses a lot of space 1GB per 11 minutes, it'll be fantastic. I throw a record on once in a while, that's why I say, all the vinyl freaks, are that. They are not superior, the reviewers who claim it to be, such a godly revelation are keeping a fad going so they can sell some products. MF is basically full of nonsense, in his observations. He latched onto some goofy stuff, his first magazine flopped, so now he does it online, he's kinda of a tool actually. What is his engineering or technical background anyway? He reminds me of a used car salesman. Telling you a product is great, while the ckts are miswired, etc. What a tool. Why don't he publish his hearing test, since stuff he claims to hear borders on insanity, or one with a very prolific imagination, as a fiction writer. He is an ad writer for obsolete product mostly. As far as enjoying listening to records, I thought all you "critical" listeners have such superior abilities, now you claim those snaps pops, clicks etc don't matter...but you can hear what a magic AC line cord does....I think there is too much BS going on. If analog is so good, then why don't all the super ears have reel-reel high speed decks, if you are so into analog, records are a poor copy of teh original source, DSD/SACD is a perfect copy of it. And if you say well, reel-reel is too inconvient, so you take a LP copy, well, then that's why DIGITAL is superior, it has convience with exact copy abiltys, a vinyl record ruins what is on teh tape, digital doesn't. Now if MF starts reviewing analog tape machines, he may realize records suck for analog source material.

CECE
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With the upgraded Eibach springs it took the float out,lowered it tightened it up big time, then if you get the S6, it's another world better. Car ain't been in for repair in years, you know not what you speak, as usual. 6 speed stick 2.7 Bi turbo, it's not your sloppy luxury boat....it takes off ramps with gusto, leaving all the tailgaters way behind, I love leaving asswipes behind, as they try to keep tailgating and almost go off the ramps. My goal might be an RS6....now we are smokin!!!

CECE
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Every recording you listen to has be EQ'd processed, re moved and processed again. Explain to me how a better cartridge can deal with a scratch in the goove, it rides over it, and just decides to not see it? that would mean it is probably missing some of the data in the groove if it can do that? Maybe it's a smart stylus, , it knows a scratch or dirt particle from music? Now if you change stylus shapes, it rides in a different portion of the groove, of course that portion is scratch free and dirt free right? and do records not wear out now, every time you play em? don't think that's been done. LP is an inferior medium, iwth lotsa coloration, that maybe you find delightful, but you sure ain't hearing the original recordings, you are hearing something else, something with less dynamics, less freq extension, less of what was on teh original recordings....the physical media just cannot hold the data of the original recording, digital DSD can, even teh CD comes a lot closer than LP playback, it's the coloration you must like not accurate playback of teh recording, and you tell me not to use the EQ, which merely gets rid of some room stuff, but if you listen to an LP, you are messing with the source right into your stuff, the LP is a poor poor poor media. Unless you like to be a DJ and do some of that goofy back and forth on the TT, and call it music. You can be DJ Dopey Dope

mrlowry
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DUP-

Why don't you buy a crappy turntable at a pawnshop and play the same record on both. There will be higher surface noise during the playback on Plastic POS. If there isn't why bother owning a VPI Scout? Sell it to me.

michaelavorgna
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DUP, MF doesn't have anything to do with you not enjoying listening to records on your system.


Quote:
I throw a record on once in a while


Now that explains a lot.

CECE
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I CRACKLE don't have a VPI Scout I have the SNAP MK III HW-19 with the incredibly grossly POP over priced first gen VPI speed SNAP controller. And some SNAP JMW 10 arms, with different CRACKLE cartridges on em. I think what you hear SNAP from a really cheap TT, is rumble. Of course POP the tone arm cartridge affects POP how it tracks over warps and stuff, but it still ain't gonna clean up scratched lousy noise surface of an LP, and each time you play it, you shave off a little more data..no SNAP matter how SNAP good your arm is...so how can a critical SNAP listener not hear the effects of a record wearing down, POP but can hear a FUSE making a difference...selective hearing? SNAP

Elk
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Quote:
With the upgraded Eibach springs it took the float out,...


What was it that Obama said? . . . something about lipstick on a pig?

CECE
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Are you still clueless after all these posts? that's why the Audi catalog has em as an upgrade, or why they have them as a factory option, it's amazing what people don't know. http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/09613.2.4698459120400015457

CECE
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Bentley GT is a massive car, it does things things a giant large should'nt do, yet it does....it is the 21st century, time to join it. Are you still thinking the 61 Impala is on the road? Same for the S8.

Elk
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It's still a 2.2 ton softly tuned sedan - not a performance car.

A perfectly fine car - comfy, nicely appointed, great for long trips and commuting - but not the car for the analogy of performance machines.

CECE
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That is true, my GLX Jetta is much stiffer which I like stiffer seats, side bolsters, STIFF is RS4.....street legal race car.

Elk
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STIFF is RS4.....street legal race car.


Only in video games for the under 18 set.

CECE
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http://www.numark.com/tti

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