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July 1, 2008 - 7:12am
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Costco Selling Turntables?!
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They are selling it as a means to DIGITIZE you old records, so you can get rid of the vinyl.....MF wouldn't understand that. Just think in the 21st century, you can play back obsolete vinyl, run it through a digital processor, enhance it, get rid of the noise, and record it to a medium that doesn't wear out on each play, and doesn't WARP, like $30 overpriced LP's are right out of the wrapper.
I don't think you get the concept of marketing here, DUP. If you see the Ion TT on sale, it's NOT marketed toward the old audiophiles trying to get rid of records, it's toward the teens & people in early 20's. Meaning: they probably don't even have vinyls to digitize! It means younger people are getting into vinyl as newbs, starting to buy them for the first time. The USB function is to let them digitize their vinyl as well b/c obviously, they're also the iPod users who'd like to listen to their music digitally. So the USB isn't to get rid of vinyl, it's for versatility of listening to both vinyl & digital files, ya dig?
You tell'em!! Way to go, SD. Very well stated and with no flames to boot.
Ion has shipped one million of their USB 'tables.
Initially, I found this to be great news. However, I later wondered how many of these 'tables are bought by people simply looking to digitize their vinyl collections. Like selfdivider, I do hope that these 'tables are getting people interested in vinyl for the very first time, as well as resurrecting that interest for others.
It's hard for me to imagine anyone putting effort into their vinyl collections -- in any way -- without falling in love with the format.
Since it says it's the PERFECT tool for ARCHIVING......which implys thusly, one has old vinyl, and can convert it to a more convienient media. Thusly I would conclude they are elling it to pre existing LP owners, the 20 something ain't gonna touch it, marlketing guru of planet MARS. And, it doesn't say it includes a cartridge, but teh picture shows one, I guess you have to supply one, that's then a dead product.......cus' ya can'ts ASSumes it has one, if it doesn't say so....ya DIG? Or maybe it's marketing on Uranus?
It's also similar to the horrible TEAC LP to CD recorder which is a consumer level product, nothing like Teac pro stuff that is terrific.
http://www.dak.com/reviews/2020storyt.cf...ette_cd_convert
Why else would it have a USB output?
I don't know of any mainstream receivers that have USB inputs!
--Ethan
I agree, but when I say what I think it's for....I'm lambasted as just being ..........Who buys a USB TT to play LP's if they ain't into vinyl? It for ones who already have LP's that they never threw out, and now see this ad, and think, hey why not, it'll still have all teh marvelous snap crackle pop, but without all teh fuss. Cus' I'm sure the software supplied on a $99 retail device is just superb in processing teh signal, NOT. Besides teh ones who buy it to digitize and get rid of their old records, ain't all that concerned with fidelity, if they where they would have software and diffeernt equipment, this is for the who cares crowd, let's make it conviennt, and my Frank Sinatra records, I don't wanna buy on CD......it ain't 20 something venturing into vinyl, they have ZERO interest......
As you know, I'm blasted for the same things as you by the same people.
Here's the actual product description:
(Verbatim, in its entirety.)
"The iTTUSB05 is the perfect tool for archiving and digitizing your vinyl music collection. With a USB connection to plug directly into your computer and included software for recording your music, you can now listen to your favorite music on CDs or portable media players. The iTTUSB05 also features a line level output for connecting to your home stereo system."
Note at which point they mention its use as a stereo playback component.
Now, as to the "meeting of the martyrs," get a room.
:o
I find it interesting that one of the people who is MOST guilty of being abusive towards others is himself complaining about being abused. For those who have trouble reading between the lines I am of course talking about DUP.
Yes, but like the ingredient list on foods, the first items listed are the largest % of it in the stuff, thusly...on this particular matter it FIRSTLY talks of ARCHIVING, DIGITIIZING for CD or IPOD...The LAST sentence throws in, oh, and like it will also playback to a home stereo system, as implying, that's not what's it's really for, but it'll do it. I rest my case, I'm right, you are ALL WRONG, except Ethan
At least you're consistently absurd and redundant.
As for 20 something spokesmen, I think I'd rather go with Pearl Jam. Do you remember their ferocious tune from Vitalogy?
Spin The Black Circle
See this needle...a see my hand...
Drop, drop, dropping it down...oh, so gently...
Well here it comes...I touch the plane...
Turn me up...won't turn you away...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...spin the black, spin the black...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...whoa...
Pull it out...a paper sleeve...
Oh, my joy...only you deserve conceit...
I'm so big...a-my whole world...
I'd rather you...rather you...than her...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...spin the black, spin the black...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...whoa...oh...
You're so warm...oh, the ritual...when I lay down your crooked arm...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...spin the black, spin the black...
Spin, spin...spin the black circle
Spin, spin...
Spin the black (5x) circle
Spin the black circle... (4x)
Spin, spin... (6x)
I would love for Phile to get AD the Stanton T-50X and the T-60 tables and see if he would put them in the same league as the Sony PS 1, which I also use on occasion, and will become part of a classroom music system.
I would love to get his thoughts on these tables one belt drive ($99-$119), the other a cheap DD version ($149). If these tables are even partially decent then there is no reason for amyone not to spin vinyl these days.
It might just be that with a Shure M97 HE and a $100 phono stage they might be a winner.
My PS1 does not have the seperate reset button or RCA outs except on the audio/video cable, but the sound...I have certainly heard worse.
No one here wrote praising the Ion TT for being some state of the art player, DUP. But it reflects the trend of the marketplace: people are starting to give vinyl the consideration.
And no one here just picks on you for just being. But just for being stubborn about things you don't have to be stubborn about. And brilliant corny pun on Uranus and crap like that, trying to get under my skin or whatever. I feel sorry for you. Like I said - my 3 year-old daughter operates on a higher logical plane than you, rub-a-dup-dup.
I was at one of my favorite little music stores the other day (Long In The Tooth Records), and picked up the Fleet Foxes album on vinyl, on Stephen's recommendation (it's a little mountain-musicy for me, but it sounds great and I could see myself learning to love it-- Art Dudley should pick it up, bluegrass fan that he is). I got to talking with the owner, who's somewhere in the vicinity of my age (late 30's) about vinyl. It's not just people our age who are buying vinyl, he said-- it's kids. He's stunned at the number of 15-18 year olds who are coming into the store and buying vinyl, new and used. Most of his business is still CDs, but his used vinyl is turning over fast enough now that he has to do the flea market circuit every weekend to keep the bins stocked.
"this is for the who cares crowd, let's make it convenient, and my Frank Sinatra records, I don't wanna buy on CD......it ain't 20 something venturing into vinyl, they have ZERO interest..."
As you often are, you're partly right and a lot wrong. This is a lame product that likely sounds like crap and is going to be used a final way to kill the sound you might get from your LPs. But- don't say 20 somethings have no interest! There you are dead wrong, both from every article and TV spot I've seen, as well as every time I go my thriving local record store.
They sell new and used- the new section growing every time I go in. And half of the customers are definitely UNDER 30 years old! They are buying the stuff for the sound, the art work, the fact that it's REAL and NOT digits floating in the ether.
I'm not anti digital- it has it's place. I have a decent CD player and it sounds pretty good. I love using my iPod with lossless files and being able to hook it up to any system in the house. But my vinyl still kicks ass in every way for a real experience.
I picked up a MINT copy of Morrison Hotel by the Doors last week: $7! Gatefold album, great art, not a pop or click on the entire thing. All that and some history to hold in your hands. Same with the mint, original copy of Neil Young's Harvest LP. Original oatmeal textured gate-fold album with a fold out lyric sheet inside. Fantastic sound, beautiful, thoughtful artwork, 12" square: $8. I would have paid $16 for that package and been very happy! You can't match that experience with a silver disc, let alone a download...
From Time magazine:
"From college dorm rooms to high school sleepovers, an all-but-extinct music medium has been showing up lately. And we don't mean CDs. Vinyl records, especially the full-length LPs that helped define the golden era of rock in the 1960s and '70s, are suddenly cool again. Some of the new fans are baby boomers nostalgic for their youth. But to the surprise and delight of music executives, increasing numbers of the iPod generation are also purchasing turntables (or dusting off Dad's), buying long-playing vinyl records and giving them a spin."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1702369,00.html
Kind of makes sense that Costco wants a piece of that demographic pie. "ZERO interest" huh, DUP?
That's why Tower Records went BK, and how many other record stores are gone.....LP's are not making any comeback, go get some stats on sales. It's an insignificant number.
Umm, one word for you: READ. Did you read Stephen's link on Ion shipping out 1 MILLION of those TTs? No matter how cheesy they are, they are frickin' selling because of market demand. They are selling at Costco because they are high-volume sellers. That's not an "insignificant" stat. Also, Tower & other stores had it coming. They refused to innovate & continued to overcharge for CDs when MP3s were eating up the software market. Think about why these stores went down. They went down because they stubbornly tried to fight mp3 with another digital format: CDs, which were outdated and inconvenient for the internet generation. Tower Records had "Records" in name only: any fool knows they ditched vinyl, along with others, long long time ago in a galaxy far away. In fact, Tower Record's commercial heyday was when it was selling vinyl. So contrary to your thinking, DUP, Tower didn't go down because of vinyl business. Ironically & truly enough, it was because of CD business tanking vs. MP3s.
Note that this vinyl-upsurge is very very recent, but it's everywhere. Time mag had a cover story, there was a CNN feature, TimeOut NY recently had a guide to all the record stores, the American Express commercial trying to lure people in with the vinyl-chic, courtesy of Music Direct... it's been crazy. And I think that's because vinyl actually offers a valid alternative to the mp3s. Analog is, for the lack of a better phrase, decidedly non-digital. There's something about its sound which people are drawn to, whether you like it or not. There's also this nostalgic, anti-rampant-capitalist quality to vinyls that undeniably appeals to the young today. So there are many factors. And as the Time article states, and various posts on this thread attest to, much of the fun in getting into vinyl is foraging through used stores. You can't track these used records changing hands; the new vinyl sales figures tell not even half of the story. Hence the TimeOut NY articles on great used record stores. And posts here which report on record shop owners testifying to how their records are selling at a faster rate. I'm probably a prime example of a young consumer of vinyl albums, a newbie to analog. I've been purchasing vinyl, and although I haven't been in the game long, I still bought here & there, and now, I have about 100 or so records, a very small collection. Among those records, you know how many are new LPs? Probably about 5. Album sales # is deceptive. That's why the Buyers & Analysts at Costco decided to sell Ion TTs along with Kirkland socks and Hot Pockets: because the market is there, in SIGNIFICANT numbers.
Which is also why, at these trade shows like CES, analog rooms are thriving, with more gear introduced than ever, to great acclaim, even as five-figure digital servers are introduced in rooms and halls adjacent to them.
"Insignificant?" Wrong again. The opposite is true.
You may be interested to know that the vinyl resurgence is in full swing over here in The Netherlands. Since there are no "Best Buys" or other big box retailers that sell CDs. The German chain "Media Mart" (the closest thing here to a "Best Buy" type of store), which may sometimes have a Music and Video section that stocks music CDs, does sell some nice consumer level turntables, both the USB and normal variety.
Therefore when one want to buy some music one goes to one of the many local music shops, and there is at least one of these shops in just about every town and city throughout the Netherlands. And many, it not most, of these shops carry both new and used vinyl and according to the shop owners that I've spoken with (yes, they all speak English) the vinyl is selling and selling very, very well. So vinyl is far from dead in Europe and if anything is making a faster and stronger comeback here than the in the USA.
In spite of their love of vinyl and analog, I think that DUP would like it over here since they spell the word "the" as "het", which is pretty close to DUP's beloved "teh".
In 20 years will people be guying used obsolete analog tv's and proclaiming it just looks so much like Luci and Desi are more natural, Vinyl is hardly making a comeback, it's a dead obsolete medium, if you say CD is, how on earth could vinyl not be? And reselling USED LP's is hardly an industry upturn, how is that anything, mfg. ain't producing new stuff, it's recyling the stuff that's been around for 20 years or more...so a million old timers that want to load their Anne Murray and Sound of Music LP's onto a more convient media, is hardly a resurgence.....do you think AM radio is coming back also? Cousins (NYC'ER should get that reference)
I agree with selfdivider on all points, and I'm happy to hear from jazzfan that things in the Netherlands are looking good for vinyl.
Meanwhile, reports have been streaming in that Virgin will be closing its Megastore in Times Square (and possibly also in Union Square) in the first quarter of next year. I can only think these closings will be good for the independent record stores.
And what's good for the independent record stores is good for vinyl.
And what's good for vinyl is good for music, in general.
It gives me great pleasure to read posts like this, DUP, when your ranting & arguments are defeated by reason, facts and stats - what I like to call reality - you start making less and less sense, digging yourself a deeper hole.
LOL, Lucy & Desi?! You're kidding me, right? I bet you just KILLED on the SAT verbal analogy section. Well, although there have been great CDPs being released, it seems that the consensus is that more and more manufacturers are trying to shift their gears into server business. "How on earth can vinyl not be dead?" Again: READ. It's not just a small # of audiophiles who are saying that vinyl's coming back in a big way... it's the regular non-audiophile writers for Time, & NY Times, etc., people in the mainstream, who are noticing these trends. A LOT of kids are getting into vinyl, DUP. At Columbia Univ., you see all these kids perusing through vinyls at street fairs, etc., talking about music, wearing vintage t-shirts. Passing fad? Maybe. But a critical mass of them will turn into genuine music lovers addicted to vinyl.
Again, I really hope your ignorance is bliss. Manufacturers are coming out with all kinds of analog gear that's full of innovations every year at a greater clip that there has been in the recent past. And if you've also forgotten to notice: people are into vinyl PRECISELY because it's a technology from the past era... many people LIKE that aspect. (I know you're going to start barking again about how they're wrong, warp, no slam, bark bark bark, but I'm just hinting, that maybe other people are onto something. I know your royal DUPness has a difficulty accepting the cold hard, basic facts of the world, but there it is.) You have also failed to catch on that Ion's been selling NOT to the old-timers but to younger audience. Pay attention or get some fresh air! And understand that the world inside your head is definitely NOT the real world. And Anne Murray? Dude, I don't know you but purely from how and what you write, I think you're either 70 or 6 and a half years old.
But both of those stores sell vinyl.
I bought two records there yesterday. A shame they're closing.
Yes, their new vinyl section has been a happy surprise for me, too. But I find selections and prices to be better elsewhere.
Not to go too off-topic. But where is new vinyl around here? There's Academy of course for used.
On the putative "new" vinyl resurgence -isn't there a fear that labels will exploit any vinyl trend and just put out crappy pressings? Of course, I guess there were always good and bad vinyl records...
They would if they could but since ALL the major record labels dismantled their vinyl pressing plants years ago they are now dependent on the small boutique record pressing plants, which are the only ones that survived. Luckily most of these small record pressing plants survived by making high quality "audiophile" vinyl and so when a new release comes out on vinyl, like the new "Fleet Foxes" album, it shows up as a well made "audiophile" pressing.
I think that it will take more than the million or so Ion turntables out there for the major record labels to get back into vinyl in such a way they once again start to manufacture their own vinyl.
I guess that's a win for those of us who like good sound.
Yes, I like to think the future holds many wins for those of us who like good sound.
Several independent shops in our area such as Other Music, Record Mart, and Tunes are selling new vinyl. The New York Times Treasure Map lists a few more. (Not all listed here sell new vinyl, but some certainly do.)
Hi
What we need to do now is start campaigning for LP prices to come down.
I bought 3 albums today and it was $110
I dont mind but its expensive to try out anything
Alan
I guess it depends on what you want to try out. I bought four LPs a couple of days ago for $15. If anything, it seems to me that vinyl allows us to try out more stuff.
Which three albums cost you $110? That is a lot of money for three albums.
I get my CDs for about $7-$8 a pop.
Not to speak for Welsh, but I don't have geographical access to used vinyl, except on eBay, which is a ridiculous crapshoot (everything is "MINT!!! and "W@W!!", two euphemisms for total crap).
Mail order vendors like Music Direct usually charge 30 bucks for audiophile pressings and more for the one-sided 45's, which are supposed to be fantastic. Some cheaper standard (non-180, 200 gram pressings)are available for less.
It gets expensive fast.
I have been very happy with my eBay purchases. And I don't know much about audiophile pressings, but the music I'm interested in is often significantly cheaper on sites like Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds than it is at stores like Virgin. Cheaper even still when I go directly through the artist's label.
There are several other online stores with superb selection, as well. I will try to put together a little list.
Hi
The three albums purchased were
LSO - Pictures at an Exhibition
Stravinsky's Firebird
Iron Maiden - Somewhere in time.
$105 for the albums, $5 postage
I have been buying albums at a cost of $5-$10 at local shops, the problem is that you have to take what they have, if you want a very specific title then you are stuck going to a Music Direct type store and you will pay $29.99 or $39.99 for most discs.
It does seem that popularity of vinyl is affecting the pricing upwards not downwards, you would think that popular titles would start to become cheaper. Albums that a large percentage of audio people would own, Tubular bells etc, I found it amazing the Pink floyds Wish you were here is not available anywhere.
As for Japanese imports !!!! I was in Music direct browsing and saw the album Free, Fire and Water and all time fav of mine but it was $59.99 !!! very hard to justify when i already have the CD.
Alan
Ridiculous prices for "audiophile" vinyl. Then ya get em, the music sucks, and the LP is warped, yeah, it's very agrivating. The Elvis Costello I got has lousy music and is warped. I haven't even opened teh Doors boxed set yet, just reading the book. BMG runs great sales on CD's......another plus for CD, cheaper no warps, doesn't wear out. Taging some poor music, poorly pressed justifys the $30 price?, it then just pisses one off. Well maybe they want to make it like the old days of Dyna Flex but then they where $3...and as oil goes up up up, vinyl will go up, CD's are smaller use less plastic, better for the enviroment, and different plastic, vinyl uses more oil don't it? If they want to "bring back" vinyl, get with the pricing, cus it's really way over priced. If it really was making a resurgence, it would be selling so much the price would drop, it ain't, it won't. $100,000 Tt's, $30 discs, oh yeah, it's really coming back. You can discover new music at BMG, when they are $1.99 on the clearance section, or $.99 if you buy five with free shipping..they run all kinds of deals all the time, BMG wants to move the inventory, they adj to the market, "audiophile" pressing are fooling themselves, and will price it into the abyss, there is no comeback.....Vinyl is the SUV/Pickup truck of the music media world, fini' I'll wait till the sellers of the $30 vinyl fold, and they sell off inventory at 1/3 the price, cus' it can't go on at those prices.
Well, I hate to say this but DUP does have a valid point here. Compared to the digital media, the failure rate of new vinyl's significantly higher. It can be disheartening to purchase 200g audiophile grade LP only to have it not play right (there's a longish thread on 200g Classic Records LPs failing at a high rate over at head-fi.) And the cost of new re-masters is prohibitive for many. Many of those Japanese imports which run about $50-60 don't even sound that great. The only re-masters that I've been splurging on here & there are the Blue Note 45s by MM & AP. I guess the tangential upside of this kind of inconsistency is that it makes me research which versions are worth getting over others, and frankly, I enjoy that kind of work... it really gets me involved and I feel closer to the music. It makes me care about the medium, too. That said, for a lot of young analog lovers, the new re-masters are too expensive. As Stephen said, though, actually many of the records put out by current bands are pretty affordable. They sound good, too, and many come with either CDs or mp3s of the album to obviate the need for digital archiving. But the true game is in used LPs. It's all about finding those jewels. I go to the Academy Records all the time & I'd get great records for less than 5 bucks a pop. And for me, that's what music is all about. Perusing through the forgotten out-of-print records, finding those gems. That act in itself is a huge anti-consumerist middle finger to the establishment, the industry that tries to dictate what you should buy and what you shouldn't. You are the only one making the choice, and you don't give a shit.
Can't you say the same thing about the used CD market? Except that it's easier to get good prices on used CDs because of BMG and other outlets that heavily discount CDs, so you don't have to look as hard to find what you want. Honestly, aside from the bigger cover art and the "feel" of a handling a big album, I don't get the vinyl movement. It's inconvenient, too expensive both on the hardware and the software side, too clunky, have to flip the damn thing half way through, high maintenance (cleaning, storage, etc) and less reliable as evidenced on the head-fi forums. Ask yourself this: Is it the music or is it the process you seek?
You can say that only up to a point with used CD market, at least for me. And to answer your question, it's 90% about music, 10% about the process. I can't say for everyone, but as for me, most of the music I'm interested in is simply unavailable in digital format. That's why my eyes turned WIDE OPEN when I went into record stores. I'm very much into classical and there's just a gargantuan catalog of out-of-print music that you can't get on digital. For example, you can't get certain performances by Josef Lhevinne or Mischa Levitzky on CDs, much less for less than 8 dollars a pop. It's impossible to access that kind of music easily on digital, if at all, and for me, it's a serious limitation. But in vinyl, there's a find like that, guaranteed, EVERY day I visit record stores.
So it's definitely about the music, dude. But it doesn't mean I don't buy CDs! I think there's a tendency here or elsewhere in other forum sites, like it's vinyl until death or digital until heaven-or-hell. What's up with that? It's like there are zealots from each camp declaring fatwa on the others... let's take a deep breath: it IS possible to have a digital source and a turntable coexist on the same audio rack. I care about the digital component in my system, too. As I mentioned in the other post, 99.9999% of the new classical releases are on digital, so I'm very invested in grooming the sound in my digital system, too. Some albums, I gotta say, I can live with just fine on digital. Some albums, though (and there are many), music simply sounds better through the TT system to me. And I realize there are people who just can't take statements like that (*ahem*) as if that kind of personal preference is an insult to their mothers or their children. All I gotta say to that is: get a life.
This is probably the most convincing case I've ever heard anyone make. If you can't find the music you want in digital format, then you should absolutely do whatever you must to get access to the music you enjoy. Once you've made a capital investment in the hardware, you may as well optimize it to make it sound the best it possibly can.
In case you're unfamiliar, with the site, you may want to look for your favorite performances on Arkiv It's probably the most comprehensive classical music store out there.
I HEART Arkiv, AlexO. That site's a treasure trove.
Good point, it's not a "yes" or "no" question. One can simply enjoy the music on whatever format they find it on. When done well they both can be excellent.
Doe anybody recall the fuss about BMG selling "inferior" CD's?
I forget how that tale turned out.
If memory serves, it had to do with copy protection scheme that they tried to implement. It cost BMG a lot of money in refunds, spin control, etc. AFAIK, they haven't tried crap like that since. I've been a member for a long, long time (over ten years) and I've never had a problem with their CDs. I think they tried the scheme on stuff like Madonna and Mariah Carey, which I don't listen to, so I wasn't affected.
I too have been a member of BMG for a number of years and haven't heard any problems with their CDs. However, many years ago when I was a member of Columbia House I noticed, even before I was an audiophile that their media didn't sound anywhere near as good as the originals. I'd love to see Stereophile do a comparative series listening/measuring tests of lets say 5 titles of store bought titles, BMG, and Columbia House. They did it many, many years ago during the "Readers Digest" size era. An up to date comparison might be interesting
Columbia House was merged into BMG, just like the other Sony music stuff, BMG took it all over, just like they took over RCA label....The myths about something different between store CD's and music club, either BMG or Columbia House was all that, a myth. Lotsa write ups about that issue, it's all BS. Probably started by retail stores, to get people to buy at their stores? Do you really think BMG or Sony is gonna run different factories to make CD's one for stores, one for their mail order clubs, they are identical products. There are not all that many CD making factories out there, a few do it all for everyone...the investemnt in equipment is LARGE.
Here is the link to the BMG debacle.