"I loved JA's think piece on MP3 vs CDs. This alone is worth the price of admission, or subscription, is it not?"

It certainly is. I haven't seen you here in awhile, good to see you again! Larry

I agree with Jim: it seems that John Marks got a "lemon." My Playstation makes ZERO tracking noise, no "whirs" or series of "ticks." Also, I just leave the thing on all the time, so no need to deal with the "bunnnng" noise when you start it up. And every Playstation owner should ditch the wired game controller! Just get the Playstation 2 DVD remote control with IR for like $13-15, and no more hassle. Works w/ PS1 SCPH-1001 like a charm.

I agree with JM that not having a physical display is somewhat of a drag. But for me, the sound quality makes up for that, and frankly, the near-$5K Plinius CD-101 doesn't have a display either, and people live with it just fine, probably consider themselves purists of a kind.

Coincidentally, I also use Cardas IC... I use Quadlinks (I think JM used Neutral Refs). In my experience, the sound is tremendous. The midrange is really gorgeous, and with the Cardas (& not the Playstation-provided ICs) the bass response is musically robust. I think it's just my preference, but I want my CD music to sound not so analytical. The PS1 CD playback is very warm, wholly musical & almost analog sounding. Very open & natural soundstaging. Compared to the PS1, a lot of the other more pricey players sound clinical, 0's and 1's.

Is it a $6K CDP beater? I don't think so. I can think of some players costing way less than $6K I wouldn't mind getting, the Primare CD31 for example, or one of those non-upsampling players from Consonance. But not many. For example, I'd gladly keep my PS1 over Cambridge Audio 840C or Naim 5i. (JM preferred the PS1 to the $1K Music Hall Trio CD receiver.) I got my PS1 for $25, too. I won't be selling mine. If I run across an NOS, I'll probably grab that one, too, just in case this one croaks on me.

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For now the PS1 is spinning beautiful, full format, wonderful piano playing. For the price of a car ride to pick it up...Sometimes life is, well, decent.

My son's PS1 (long-unused -- he graduated first to a PS2 then a Wii) doesn't appear to have the appropriate output jacks. I did hear a PS1 in Sandy Gross's system (Def Tech founder) a while back, driving a Cayin CA50 integrated amp and Def Tech Mythos speakers, Sounded superb! John Marks is sending me the PS1 he wrote about to try out.

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I loved JA's think piece on MP3 vs CDs. This alone is worth the price of admission, or subscription, is it not?

Thanks Jim. It's great to see you back on the forum.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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My son's PS1 (long-unused -- he graduated first to a PS2 then a Wii) doesn't appear to have the appropriate output jacks.

John,

Apart from a couple of quite rare Japan-only specials only the earliest '1000-series' machines from '95-96 sported phono jacks (see here for the full skinny, including fascinating insights into why the '1000-series' should really have been called the '3000-series' and why what we call a 'PS1' is actually a plain Jane 'PS'). I suspect that this is why the SCPH-1001 has become the tweakers' pet and not necessarily any inherent SQ advantage over later models. While using a $20 games console as a 'high-end' digital source is the very quintessence of geek-cool using stock liquorice cables is quite the opposite and would doubtless precipitate an audiophile fatwah over at the asylum.

Anyway, allegedly the output from the 'AV Multi Out' actually sounds better than that from the phono sockets since it avoids an extra op amp stage (get the full hoopy-scoopy here courtesy of PS

OMG! Just when you think you've seen it all. Funny stuff.

RG

RG,

I know, it looks like and smells like pure, well, April foolery!

However, it is truly amazing what you find when you start surfing links on some of the bulletin boards a little 'further out there' towards the lunatic fringe. There is a positively thriving community of audio nutcases and fundamentalists that I once saw referred to as the 'Audio Taliban'. I can just picture them riding around in their Landcruisers listening to "Famous Blue Raincoat" on their modded PSes. Lol.

Well, Struts, slap a beard on me & call me Taliban. =) The SCPH-1001 sounds pretty great in my system, but I can easily see how it wouldn't work in other systems, mesh w/ other people's preferences (but that's the case w/ all audio products, I guess...) I first learned about PS1 through Stereophile's blog of Playstation 1 spinning Michael Fremer's demo disc in one of the Devore show rooms at CES 2006. Leben CS600. Gibbon 3 speakers:

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2006/010706devore/

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Apart from a couple of quite rare Japan-only specials only the very early '1000-series' machines from '95 had phono jacks. I suspect that this is why the SCPH-1001 has become the darling of the tweakers and not necessarily any inherent SQ advantage over later models.

It seems that the SQ advantage - at least according to the PS1 Talibans - belongs to the kind of DAC used: Asahi Kasei Microsystems (AKM 4309AVM). No data available on this DAC, but it was only used in SCPH-1001 and SCPH-5501. I've read in some forums about people w/ SCPH-55XX models reporting favorably about audio playback...

Hey SD,

I have no wish to split the hairs on your audiophile chin however according to da man dogbreath (a.k.a. Mick Feuerbacher):

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AKM DACs were used up to the PU20 board, which was used in the SCPH 7002. In the 1002 two DACS were used. The AK4309 AV and later the AK4309 AVM. The latter was used in the 5002 as well. On the 7002 board you find a AK4309 BM. What happened after that I dont know.

In other words (and just for the benefit of any wouldbe prospectors panning for gold in backs of their teenagers' closets) machines bearing part numbers SCPH-100x, SCPH-500x and SCPH-550x (where x=1 for North America and 2 for Europe) apparently contain said 'miracle DAC' along with a few more Japan-only models.

This is worrying, I am truly starting to feel sucked into 'the cult'. Stop I must!

Struts, if nothing else, you've now given me a brilliant option for my Halloween costume this year: the Korean Osama.

I can't wait to see what Jeff Wong makes of that!

LOL, let's not give him any ideas!

Now this has to be your next birthday present!

Holy crap! I'd love to try that or at least get feedback from PS1 users who have tried it. But I think part of the charm of the PS1 comes from how it manages to sound so good as it is. I don't know if it's the miracle DAC or whatever else, but it makes digital sound so fluently musical, warm & smooth. Besides, I don't know how else that tubestage will color the sound... my amp is tubed, so I don't know if adding another tubestage is such a good idea for it? I'd think it would just add one more step one doesn't necessarily need... I can definitely see the US PS1 fanboys lusting after it, though.

I just picked up a PS2 remote for $5. Works great with my PS1 SCPH-1001. Now I have this hooked up to my destitute audiophile's system consisting of the PS1 SCPH-1001 ($20) with PS2 remote ($5), a Radio Shack Accurian HomePlug

Man, I totally believe you, jackfish. Your $125 system is really intriguing... I can only imagine how it sounds! I bet it has a lot of people scratching their heads in disbelief. And all for the fraction of the cost of a measly iPod!

Just for the heck of it, I decided to get a second PS1 as either a backup or for the possible 2nd system I'm building. The model that's on the way has its output modded as per dogbreath's instructions:

http://dogbreath.de/PS1/output/output.html

Apparently this mod is a piece of cake with a modicum of soldering skills, but since I was born with 2 left feet for hands, I just took the offer of the guy selling his modded version for $30. It essentially bypasses the output stage. According to many, this gives the PS1 even a greater clarity. I'll test & see if this actually improves the SQ or tampers with the original euphonic sound of the PS1...

I sure hope yours also has Wima caps.

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I sure hope yours also has Wima caps.

Yeah, it has Wima caps. Can you explain to me why that's a good thing? I'm really clueless about that whole cap business, etc. The guy who's selling me the PS1 mod told me he "changed the internal cap to Wima 3.3uF and 22k resistor shunt to ground." What the hell does that mean, practically speaking?

Wima makes very good quality capacitors. It is one of the premium manufacturers of such components. Many find they sound better. I know that Mr. Atkinson participated in a blind listening test comparing capacitors and is one of the people that could readily hear a difference.

I didn't look at the site in detail, but noticed the caps and just had to comment.

A common mod on less expensive components that contain a DAC chip is to take voltage outputs directly from the DAC chip and send them directly to the to the RCA output jacks. This bypasses a group of downstream components in the signal path such as inexpensive opamps (output amplifiers), undersized circuit board traces, etc.

The only downside is that the output voltage is decreased - but if you have plenty of clean upstream amplification available (like a nice preamp) this is not a problem.

Another common mod is to swap out the coupling caps (between the left and right channel) with higher quality caps. Coupling capacitors provide a connection between circuits but without allowing DC current to pass. I know that coupling caps are included in amplifier outputs to protect the speakers if something goes wrong so that DC is not passed to the speakers.

I don't know why one wants to connect the left and right channels together however. Hopefully someone with real electrical design knowledge will explain this part.

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I just picked up a PS2 remote for $5. Works great with my PS1 SCPH-1001. Now I have this hooked up to my destitute audiophile's system consisting of the PS1 SCPH-1001 ($20) with PS2 remote ($5), a Radio Shack Accurian HomePlug

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Like..take home an older late 70's Technics receiver..and pull out the plastic film noble brand stepped attenuator..which might retail for $150 at DIY shops, these days.

Hmmmmm...

I have one of those receivers in my garage this very moment.

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A common mod on less expensive components that contain a DAC chip is to take voltage outputs directly from the DAC chip and send them directly to the to the RCA output jacks.

This may not work. Many IC DACs are current output, many are differential output and the buffer opamps may also be low-pass filters to improve the noise performance. Check the DAC data sheet. I don't know what's used in the PS1.

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I know that coupling caps are included in amplifier outputs to protect the speakers if something goes wrong so that DC is not passed to the speakers.

This speaker protection technique could only be used with very limited frequency response systems (e.g. a cell phone). The coupling capacitor would have to be a very high value to pass lower frequencies. A coupling capacitor could be used for DC blocking in applications where the input impedance of the next stage is quite high. There could be a coupling capacitor at the input of a power amplifier (followed by a high impedance buffer opamp) to block any DC from the preamp.

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I don't know why one wants to connect the left and right channels together however. Hopefully someone with real electrical design knowledge will explain this part.

The coupling caps of concern here are probably from the opamps buffering the DAC to the outputs; they do not couple the two channels together. Using higher quality caps in this role could be beneficial.

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A common mod on less expensive components that contain a DAC chip is to take voltage outputs directly from the DAC chip and send them directly to the to the RCA output jacks.

This may not work. Many IC DACs are current output, many are differential output and the buffer opamps may also be low-pass filters to improve the noise performance. Check the DAC data sheet. I don't know what's used in the PS1.

Agreed. This is why modding for mods' sake is inadvisable.

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I don't know why one wants to connect the left and right channels together however. Hopefully someone with real electrical design knowledge will explain this part.

The coupling caps of concern here are probably from the opamps buffering the DAC to the outputs; they do not couple the two channels together. Using higher quality caps in this role could be beneficial.

Channel separation in amplifiers and preamps often (typically?) worsens with increased frequency due to capacitive coupling. What capacitive coupling is taking place?

My assumption that there is a physical connection between the channels may very well be mistaken. Is the capacitive coupling that is taking place a function of circuit design, such as circuit components being in close proximity, signal carrying wires in parallel when they should be separated, etc.?

A common mod is to swap out the coupling caps in components to improve the sound. What are the coupling caps being replaced accomplishing in the circuit? I assume that they are in the signal path, correct?

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What capacitive coupling is taking place?

The coupling could be capacitive due to close proximity of traces or components associated with each channel. In many cases, the circuitry for multiple channels is contained in a single chip. The coupling could also be due to poor regulation on a shared power supply. High current demands from one channel could cause modulation of other channels. You're correct to suspect capacitive coupling when the crosstalk rises with frequency.

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What are the coupling caps being replaced accomplishing in the circuit? I assume that they are in the signal path, correct?

First of all, I'm assuming that the caps are connected from the buffer opamps to the outputs. This assumption, of course, may not be correct. If this is the configuration, their purpose is to block the DC component of the signal. The buffer opamps in this assumed scenario are probably receiving single-ended power rather than bipolar and will include half the power supply value in their output. Such a circuit would deliver a very audible thump when turned on.

Good. My spider sense was working properly when I recognized that capacitive coupling does not necessarily mean that there is an actual physical capacitor coupling the circuits.

Thanks for the explanation re the use of coupling caps with buffer opamps.

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What capacitive coupling is taking place?

The coupling could be capacitive due to close proximity of traces or components associated with each channel. In many cases, the circuitry for multiple channels is contained in a single chip. The coupling could also be due to poor regulation on a shared power supply. High current demands from one channel could cause modulation of other channels. You're correct to suspect capacitive coupling when the crosstalk rises with frequency.

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What are the coupling caps being replaced accomplishing in the circuit? I assume that they are in the signal path, correct?

First of all, I'm assuming that the caps are connected from the buffer opamps to the outputs. This assumption, of course, may not be correct. If this is the configuration, their purpose is to block the DC component of the signal. The buffer opamps in this assumed scenario are probably receiving single-ended power rather than bipolar and will include half the power supply value in their output. Such a circuit would deliver a very audible thump when turned on.

As a piece of consumer gear handled by kids ad nauseam, the odds of the audio/video outputs being capacitor coupled by, lets say 22uf at 50V non-polarized or similar capacitors...goes right through the roof, to somewhere at 99.9999%.

Okay, Elk, Charly & KBK. I have no frickin idea what you guys are talking about! My eyes glazed over while reading your posts and I started drooling.

But I finally received the output-modded PS1 with wima caps last night. The guy who was selling it to me said that he could only hear a slight difference in A-Bing the modded PS1 with the plain one, just a slight increase in clarity, but in my system, the difference is pretty clear. Resolution, clarity, and separation are much better now. The overall presentation of the music is still very much PS1-euphonic. The bass is better defined, too. I really like this a lot. If anyone's considering purchasing PS1, I'd definitely recommend this output mod suggested by 'dogbreath' -

http://dogbreath.de/PS1/output/output.html

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. . . but in my system, the difference is pretty clear. Resolution, clarity, and separation are much better now.

YES!

Great to hear!

Okay: surprise! I change my mind about modded PS1 vs. unmodded. Sorry, but my judgment was formed too hastily... I've listened more carefully over the past few days and I prefer the sound out of the unmodded PS1 much better. The music does seem to have a bit more resolution in the modded version, but in comparison to the unmodded version, it also sounds funneled through a thin neck or something. The modded player strains in playing loud/fast passages, whereas the unmodded sounds more effortless & organic. Leads to fatigue in modded version. Somehow, in the unmodded version, the music sounds more of an organic whole. The presence is way bigger. Hangs together with more coherence and conviction. The unmodded also sounds much warmer and quasi-"analog" than the modded. Some of that "glow" is absent in the unmodded version, and for me, that warmth of glow is what's special about the PS1 in the first place. I recommend unmodded PS1 over the modded version, but again, it's totally subjective. I think most people would say modded sounds better. Maybe the guy who modded this PS1 didn't quite do it right, which is another explanation for this, too.

Very, very interesting.

Perhaps one man's clarity is another man's thread-bare.

Based on the schematics included in the link you posted, it looks like the mod bypasses a buffer opamp and a muting circuit and takes the output of the DAC either directly to the RCA outputs or through a high-pass RC filter. Either of these approaches will require that the DAC directly drive the connected cable/preamp. I could find no spec on the AK4309, but a high output impedance of the DAC could cause the behavior you're hearing.

Excellent point!

I found the data sheet. Here is the summary specs:

The master clock can be either 256fs or 384fs, supporting various audio environment. Features Sampling Rate Ranging from 8kHz to 50kHz On chip Perfect filtering * 8 times FIR Interpolator * 2nd order SCF and CTF * Total Response: 0.5dB at 20kHz On chip Buffer with Single End Output Master Clock: 256fs or 384fs High Tolerance to Clock Jitter TTL Level Digital Interface THD+N: -84dB Dynamic Range: 90dB Output Level: 3.4Vpp Power Supply: 5V10% Low Power Dissipation: 80mW at 5V Small Package: 20pin SSOP

The load resistance is 10,000 ohms. If I understand the spec sheet correctly this would indeed cause problems with frequency response unless the preamp's input is exceedingly high

The only other information regarding the analog outputs I could find is:

"The analog outputs are also single-ended and centered around the VCOM voltage. The output signal range is typically 3.4Vpp. AC coupling capacitors of larger than 1uF are recommended. The internal switched-capacitor filter and continuous-time filter attenuate the noise generated by the delta-sigma modulator beyond the audio passband. Therefore, any external filters are not required for typical application. The output voltage is a positive full scale for 7FFFH(@16bit) and a negative full scale for 8000H(@16bit). The ideal output is VCOM voltage for 0000H(@16bit).

DC offsets on analog outputs are eliminated by AC coupling since analog outputs have DC offsets of VCOM + a few mV."

Here is the link for the pdf. Datasheet: AK4309

Wow. How do you guys do that? I can only admire the way you dudes break it down. You make me feel like I live in the Dark Ages.

That makes a lot of sense, though. In really loud passages, I could faintly hear the sound breaking in the left channel for some reason... almost an inaudible fuzz. I questioned myself first. Heard it first through the Harbeth Super HL5s, then I heard it again in AKG-701s. Put the unmodded PS1 back & played the same music (Abbado's Mahler 9) and it was completely gone.

If this kind of problem is uniform throughout dogbreath-modded units, the modded PS1 is definitely not suited for hi-fi listening.

the unit also has a higher than CD spec output, which would be 2.0V rms, which in peak to peak values, would be 2.82Vpp. The playstation unit is 3.4Vpp, which is slightly greater. Such an output, actually, would make my digital crossover's analog input clip. Some of the perceived sonics might be attributable to the higher output, with regards to having more 'drive'. Never know.

Just looked at the AKM manual, from the link provided, the PS rails on the DAC will need buffering. As close to the chip as possible. That might fix your issues perceived. Yep. All the reference voltages need be stabilized, as well.

99.9999999% of (big-high volume) manufacturers will follow the tech manual implementation, to the letter, on chips.

I don't. Ever.

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If this kind of problem is uniform throughout dogbreath-modded units, the modded PS1 is definitely not suited for hi-fi listening.

I don't know this particular modder, but there are a lot of people that believe that if the sound is different it is better.

Also, many believe they any time you take parts out to make a circuit simpler or add bigger/more expensive parts it will be better.

It's not this simple.

Good circuit design takes skill, knowledge and lots of experience. Even mass-manufactured gear is generally pretty intelligently designed, albeit conservative with cheap and robust over all. It takes a lot of skill to mod well.

OTOH, I'm impressed that you used your ears to judge. It can be hard to really listen to your new toy and be honest enough with yourself to conclude it doesn't sound better.

wait a minute, I got that one bassackwards. 2Vrms is 2.82 peak, and 5.65 p-p on ye olde scope. That's what I get for spending more time on the base theory side. The power supply, however, is single sided and that might make for an asymmetrical output under high output and heavy load. Difficult to say. As for the 10k loading minimum, this may indicate that excessive capacitive 'room' ie, lots of capacity to work to lower frequencies by adding excessive capacitance on the output, might make for some distortion components, or that too little, sounds restrictive. The bigger culprit, in my experience, tends to be a combination of reference voltages and PS buffering (Stability). Just rambling.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm

i read you have to leave it on for a couple days for it to sound good. do i have to do this everytime i want to use it?

i can't do any diy stuff, so is there an cable i can plug into AV Multi out for around $20? im in the us.