Apologies, that's a TBA thing. (To Be Announced)

I'm merely attempting to clean up this thread with some relevant information, at the same time I leave the more important critical bits to those who work in those areas.

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The ramifications are little understood, on all fronts.

The standard electrical parameters still apply, with some very interesting modifiers and conditioners.

NO NO NO!!! We want a "completely new method of conduction" not "standard electrical parameters" with excuses!

What we want is a cable that acts like a tunnel diode or something like that. Or one where all the electrons disappear and then materialise, miraculously, in a different dimension.

You promised!!!!!

Well, at least you are enjoying yourself.

Oh yes, this is fun

Okay so we've established that the cables work on standard electrical principles with waivers. Can we please be informed as to the composition of the conductors in this cable? I mean as long as it's not patented or restricted information. I'm guessing Ruthenium or Ununbium, maybe Unbiennium.

Maybe if you can't tell us what it is we could have a bet on it and the winner would win a set of cables (from the lower end of the price range, naturally).

I hope it's not copper. That would be such a dissapointment

Look... We all know that such things as this are made of 'unobtanium', (the audiophile's favorite metal) as all Ferrari's and similar are made of. Never copper. At this point manufacturing details are not to be released, possibly never. It is simply and reasonably not on the agenda of things that are to be addressed.

The behaviour of an electrical signal is going to be significantly different in a fluid vs that of a solid. The number of variables to be addressed goes through the roof, as they virtually stack on one another, with respects of becoming a mess of variables that need be solved simultaneously. The math gets horrendously complex and hasn't really been solidly addressed yet. The vast area of it as a field has not been addressed yet. The mechanics of it aren't anywhere near being fully addressed yet.

For example, the so-called 'fact' of 'matter' ie, material itself, etc..still..to this day..remains a complete unknown. We cannot describe 'matter'..which leads to the eventual understanding of the impossibility of describing 'time'. The Good Scientist, then realizes or admits, that 'all is theory'. Which is the only real and correct stance. You could even go back and say the place in modern times where things became a construct with an organization and direction..which was, simplistically, Descartes "I think, therefore I am"..was correct, and partially the basis of modern objectivism. It failed to address the point of "I feel, therefore emotions shape my thoughts." Thus the modern scientist can many times be blindsided by the failure of the school of objectivism that he was raised in, and became part of -due to his predilection for linear thinking- to take into account the other 50% of human existence.

We are stepping into an unknown (cue black curtain). On almost every level except realizing that the basics of conduction exist. Other than that....it's all new.

I'm not going to waste anybodys time quoting the load of tosh you have written.

However, I think I may have put a couple of pieces of this jigsaw puzzle together.

The "completely new method of conduction" is a furphy. Maybe it should be "lesser known method of conduction". I recall answering a question you posed on liquid glass as a conductor of electricity. It is an 'ionic' conductor in it's liquid phase and its resistance can only be measured with an AC signal above about 50hz.

So our "completely new method of conduction" is actually ionic conduction. Nothing new.

You sell paint KBK, so it stands to reason that you may understand some of the chemistry of paint and other things. You'll no doubt be familiar with liquids that are viscous at room temperature.

This brings me to my best guess on the "secret" contents of your cable. It may be an ionic conductor. To be of any use it would have to be a room temperature compound so that narrows down the choice to 1-alkyl-3-methylimidazolium, 1-alkylpyridinium, N-methyl-N-alkylpyrrolidinium, or possibly 1-butyl-3-methylimidazolium tetrafluoroborate which is readily obtainable.

If this is the case, then it's a novel idea but why is it any better than a copper wire. I can't find any simple figures on the actual conductivity of 1-butyl-3-methylimidazolium tetrafluoroborate at room temperature but I can't imagine it's an improvement on copper.

The way to test this hypothesis would be to get one of your cables and do a DC resistance measurement on it. As the ions crowd around the anode and cathode, they will lower the conductivity and that would look like a capacitor charging up.

So am I warm or cold?

According to the website, the conductors are "an alloy of Gallium and Indium", liquid at room temperature.

Really? Gallium has been used for years in LEDs, transistors and integrated circuits. Nothing new here.

Radioactive indium is used to track white blood cells in the body. I recall that it is also used in various electrical applications.

This doesn't seem very bleeding edge.

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I'm not going to waste anybodys time quoting the load of tosh you have written.

It's quite difficult to engage in a reasonable discussion when someone gets into this kind of a groove.

Of course, as stated, no in-depth information will be forthcoming. You are encouraged to investigate on your own, in those areas of science.

I am out in the open, name, background, position, product, etc. You are wearing a disguise...and slinging arrows while hiding in the woods.

I encourage folks to speculate, but it's kind of difficult to speculate on the sonics of a fluid transmission medium---when you haven't heard it.

mmmkk?

Edit: And saying that Goo Systems 'sells paint'.. is like saying NASA....'throws rocks'. It was a cheap shot. Not even remotely warranted.

Why do you seemingly want to turn this thread into a mud slinging session? What good does that do anyone? This is not a discussion forum. It is a product announcements area.

I'm doing my best to handle your obvious negativity, concerning a product you know little to nothing about.

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And saying that Goo Systems 'sells paint'.. is like saying NASA....'throws rocks'.

I'd say this puts you in great company. NASA throws some great rocks.

(I love those little explorers that go on and on, way beyond their expected life. So cool.)

So! Mozarts cat is out of the bag! Here we have the "completely new method of conduction" Its a eutectic alloy called Galinstan. It's liquid at room temperature and consists of an alloy of gallium, indium, and tin. Electron conduction takes place in this alloy as it is a metal.

Surely this method of use is a classic case of "the answer to a question that nobody asked" Truly a solution in search of a problem.

The specific resistivity of this alloy is 0.96

What's this! The most viewed thread on the forum has been moved? It must be good to have friends in high places KBK. If you haven't had a look at the remnants of the original thread over in 'Manufacturers Showcase' I suggest you do.

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28217&an=0&page=0#Post28217

It would appear that anyone with an inquiring mind is the antithesis of a Stereophile forum member.

In the stub of the original thread, KBK rails at me for

OK, I'm starting to figure out all the split threads.

KBK, is this stuff on the market?

I have a million questions. First and foremost would be how you create a fluid/solid interface at either end of the cabling. No trade secrets being asked for, just conceptually, how it happens.

Then, if you are conducting in a liquid, how do you circumvent issues of a fluid not having a fixed structure? Pardon my Neanderthal way of asking, but how does a fluid not "jiggle" and potentially screw up the 'timing' (or whatever word, coherence?) of the signal it is conducting?

Listening, of course, is the final answer.

Recently, my buddy, Big Mike, made some speaker cables out of what I would have anticipated to be a "difficult" wire, invented his own termination, and they killed! Totally beautiful sound! So, you catch me at a very open-minded time.

Toss me a link to a sales person and if they are in my budget world, I'll give 'em a go with an open mind.

Fresh Clip, KBK may sometimes come across as an effete know-it-all prone to hyperbole, but I find your rabid. obsessive and verbose critiques of his cable claims to be disturbingly childish and boring- especially the chemical nomenclature. And, furthermore, he has never resorted to baiting, name calling and delusions of paranoia over the posts being moved to a different part of the forum. You have protested way too much.

Puleeze! The subject, if I'm not mistaken, is a $13,000.00 set of interconnects. Can there be such a thing as protesting too much?

RG

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I find your rabid. obsessive and verbose critiques of his cable claims to be disturbingly childish and boring- especially the chemical nomenclature.

Sorry to have upset you rvance. I used the chemical nomenclature to illustrate the fact that I was trying to discern the type of liquid in the cables. KBK threw in plenty of red-herrings to put me off the scent, good for him. I don't suppose KBK's invocation of chaos theory and other scientific terminolgy upset you at all?

I didn't think so...

I admit have descended to sarcasm a number of times but KBK played the game even when he stated explicitly that he was going to "stay the hell off forums".

Have you heard the old saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity"? Well one poster here is interested enough to try the Teo cables. Also there has been over 2400 hits on this thread. Is that all bad news?

My point in this was to tackle KBK on his thoroughly ridiculous assertion that this product was going to re-write the laws of physics. Youve got a problem with me using chemical names but not with a ludicrous statement like that? Sheesh!

BTW I have carefully re-read all of the posts in the thread and I really can't find an instance of where I said KBK you are a .... I have criticised what see as "snake oil salesman" type behaviour, I suppose that's an insult but its a criticism of the behaviour not the person.

Baiting. I guess it depends on your point of view. Maybe some would call it "persuing an answer"

As it stands, nobody on this forum bar KBK has listened to a system equipped with these cables so whatever claims he has made are unverified and subjective. Unless there are some specs and measurements that have not been put forward?

I'm waiting to see how an amp with a sensitive output impedance deals with such high resistance cables.

I'm not paranoid about my post being moved and I understand the reason. Lifes too short to get worked up over such trivialities.

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Puleeze! The subject, if I'm not mistaken, is a $13,000.00 set of interconnects. Can there be such a thing as protesting too much?

RG

Hell yes! There's nothing wrong with discussing, critiquing and debunking outlandish or specious claims. IMO that can be taken to an offensive and ridiculous level that surpasses the objects of your derision.

I guess I'm unmoved by mega-buck equipment that I will never consider purchasing. And if I had the $$$ and wanted to spend it, WTF? Who cares? What is really annoying (to me anyway) are all these rabid, fire and brimstone crusaders who allow their self-righteous indignation to overcome any sense of civility and proportion. Macho chest puffing and personal attacks spoil the fun.

Actually, rvance, I think you spoil the fun with your self righteous attitude.
Fresh clip is making a valuable contribution to this forum with his knowledge and no nonsense attitude.
I am glad we have someone that takes the time to deflate potential snake oil salesman.

you are way out of line criticizing fresh clip, IMO.

There is no such thing as protesting audio lunacy too much.
Oh, I forgot, your one of the ones in favor of censorship and banning people who have ideas you don't like.

fresh clip,
thank you for your sane, well reasoned posts. It would be nice to have more of that here.

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My point in this was to tackle KBK on his thoroughly ridiculous assertion that this product was going to re-write the laws of physics. Youve got a problem with me using chemical names but not with a ludicrous statement like that? Sheesh!

Point taken and conceded, however, there is a lot of contention and acrimony on these posts that is unnecessary (and now I'm contributing my own). Buddha's send-ups of KBK's more colorful posts were sharply satiric and funny without the meanness. And KBK took it in stride like a gentleman. KBK could have told you to go piss up a rope and make your own liquid cables, but he didn't. He remained civil.

And I know, despite the fact your nom de plume denotes a gun fetish, you will eventually drop the combat stance and deliver some posts that speak in favor of the things you love about this hobby.

I think I must have missed the 13,000 dollar part. I will have to beg off until my six figure retirement fund comes through - which will be the week I pick the right six figures for my Lotto ticket!

KBK, consider getting a loaner set and let Fresh Clip take a listen.

I do apprecaiate the back and forth, I am learning from the people who post, and it also motivates me to get learned up mo better!

A little off topic, well maybe not:

When I was a student studying engineering (don't worry, I'm not an audio or electronics engineer, I'm a mechanical engineer) one of the first things that the professor did in the introductory thermodynamics course was to teach us the first law of thermodynamics, which is basically the conservation of energy. It seems that someone is always coming up with some type of perpetual motion machine and perpetual motion is a clear violation of the conservation of energy and the first law of thermodynamics.

I think that the similar thing is happening here, i.e. one cannot rewrite the laws of physics regardless of how much money one stands to make by claiming to have rewritten those laws. Therefore I completely agree with Fresh Clip and rgibran in their skepticism of these claims. I'll go a step further and say that these cables, rather than being filled with some kind exotic liquid, are filled with a much more common substance: everyday, run of the mill BS.

What I don't understand is what is it about high end audio that attracts these kind of outrageous claims and why the hell don't we, the consumers of high end audio, just throw the bums out instead of trying to defend them.

And before several of you get your dander up and fire back at me that there are still many things about the reproduction of sound that not very well understood, I say, yes that's true but that does not mean that the laws of the physical universe are not well understood and it is still impossible to violate those laws.

I also agree that if someone has the money and they are willing to spend it on some product making outrageous claims, then so be it. Just don't ask me to believe all the BS that usually surrounds such outrageous products and claims.

great post, jazzfan

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I also agree that if someone has the money and they are willing to spend it on some product making outrageous claims, then so be it. Just don't ask me to believe all the BS that usually surrounds such outrageous products and claims.

This (almost) always seems to be the capitulation of those who squeal the loudest about high priced anything in audio but most particularly cables. If you really felt this way, why are you screaming so loud? If every post about high priced whatevers began with this theory, it would shorten most threads down to a few posts about the color of the dielectric and the quality of packaging.

If you say it, why don't you believe it?

It's none of your busines how someone else spends their money. If you feel it is, write to your Congressperson and not to Stereophile.

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I also agree that if someone has the money and they are willing to spend it on some product making outrageous claims, then so be it. Just don't ask me to believe all the BS that usually surrounds such outrageous products and claims.

This (almost) always seems to be the capitulation of those who squeal the loudest about high priced anything in audio but most particularly cables. If you really felt this way, why are you screaming so loud? If every post about high priced whatevers began with this theory, it would shorten most threads down to a few posts about the color of the dielectric and the quality of packaging.

If you say it, why don't you believe it?

It's none of your busines how someone else spends their money. If you feel it is, write to your Congressperson and not to Stereophile.

I think Jan fancies himself the great defender of overcharging scoundrels, ethical values as they pertain to the dealer's margins and hero of the snake oil salesmen.

I think Jan fancies himself the great defender of overcharging scoundrels, ethical values as they pertain to the dealer's margins and hero of the snake oil salesmen.

JV used to be an audio salesman so he may have a certain bias

OTOH, if audio dealers couldn't make money there would be no dealers.

There are so many good direct sales manufacturers now that almost any reasonable budget can result in an excellent system. If one is willing to buy product that isn't reviewed in the mags.

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I think Jan fancies himself the great defender of overcharging scoundrels, ethical values as they pertain to the dealer's margins and hero of the snake oil salesmen.

That's right, Alex, once again you are going to try to make someone else the offending party to cover your own faults. I sold audio, therefore, I must be a thief and a scoundrel.

Way to go, Alex.

Once again you are wrong. I find myself annoyed by the constant battles over how someone else does what they choose to do. If what you do harms me in some way, then I have the right to protest. Someone spending more money than you feel is appropriate is none of your business. You can shake your head and go, "Tsk, tsk", all you want, but it is none of your business. Unless you can show how it harmed you, you have no right to complain and complain and complain.

If what you say is not what you mean, then that is another matter all together.

Okay Jan, I'll take the bait.

Here's one for you. The infamous $100,000 "Mikey loves it" turntable is a perfect example of a high, and many would say outrageously, priced piece of audio gear that I don't have any quibbles with. Why? You might ask since $100K is a lot of money for a record player. Because Continuum does not claim to have reinvented the turntable or to have overturned some of the basic laws of physics. Rather they build their turntable by using state of the art engineering, materials and manufacturing. Yeah it's over the top expensive but hey, if you got the money, go for it.

And just in case you still don't get it, here's another one for you.

The infamous $100,000+ loudspeaker turntable is a perfect example of a high, and many would say outrageously, priced piece of audio gear that I don't have any quibbles with. Why? You might ask since $100+K is a lot of money for a simple pair of stereo!!! speakers. Because Wilson does not claim to have reinvented the loudspeaker or to have overturned some of the basic laws of physics. Rather they build their loudspeakers by using state of the art engineering, materials and manufacturing. Yeah it's over the top expensive but hey, if you got the money, go for it.

Now there are some cable manufacturers who think that having some guy standing there in a white lab coat waving some BS white paper in the air along with some high-fi speaker mumbo jumbo is going to divert our attention from the man behind curtain. I don't think so.

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I think Jan fancies himself the great defender of overcharging scoundrels, ethical values as they pertain to the dealer's margins and hero of the snake oil salesmen.

That's right, Alex, once again you are going to try to make someone else the offending party to cover your own faults. I sold audio, therefore, I must be a thief and a scoundrel.

Don't forget a snake oil salesman too.

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Once again you are wrong. I find myself annoyed by the constant battles over how someone else does what they choose to do. If what you do harms me in some way, then I have the right to protest. Someone spending more money than you feel is appropriate is none of your business. You can shake your head and go, "Tsk, tsk", all you want, but it is none of your business. Unless you can show how it harmed you, you have no right to complain and complain and complain.

What if someone spends less money than you think is appropriate? Why do you start complaining and preaching then?

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If what you say is not what you mean, then that is another matter all together.

I pretty much say what I mean.

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What if someone spends less money than you think is appropriate? Why do you start complaining and preaching then?

Alex, this little game you play of diverting some imaginary fault onto the other party is somewhat like Shoots and Ladders, you should have outgrown this a long time ago.

Show me where I have complained or "preached". Not something you imagine I did, Alex, something I really did. If I remember correctly, it is your hero on this forum who preaches and complains. I am obviously not your hero, Alex, any more than you are mine.

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I pretty much say what I mean

And that infers ... what? That I said you didn't? No, Alex, I realize you say what you mean. You have never taken refuge in the "someone else's money" backtrack. That's been my point all along. But, please, stop trying to shift blame to make yourself feel better about this whole affair. You try this over and over and it just doesn't work. Try arguing your point without trying to appoint guilt to the other participant. If you can't do that, you don't have an argument to debate.

Why are you making this so personal, Alex? What was it that you had a while back? Oh, yeah, a "boner" for me. You got another boner, Alex?

I have no idea where you're getting this stuff from. And as far as your boners are concerned, that's between you and your own boner. I have no wish to partake in that discussion.

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Now there are some cable manufacturers who think that having some guy standing there in a white lab coat waving some BS white paper in the air along with some high-fi speaker mumbo jumbo is going to divert our attention from the man behind curtain. I don't think so.

I guess I'm just not getting how that statement follows your previous paragraphs. If you are OK with someone spending lots of money on something you feel is justified, then how does that make you the person to decide what is justified?

That's my stance. It is not your job or duty to protect someone from their own desires. And certainly not by posting on this forum. Have any of us expressed a desire to own this cable? Nope. So what's the deal with complaining that it's BS? We always seem to get caught up in, "This is BS", and therefore we can debate the pricing of BS. I think we all know the price of BS.

Here we are debating the value of some $13k cables. Have we found anyone who has purchased these cables? Not so far that I can tell. If no one has parted with any cash for this product, why are we screaming that no one should part with cash for these cables?

This seems to be a tiopic that offers the opportunity for someone to partake in a high dudgeon, get their dander up and generally smash about the forum like a blind walrus in pursuit of a wounded seal all the while feeling superior to those who just might part with cash for something they feel they want to own.

My, my, my!

If we discount those items that are priced beyond the reach of most listeners yet offer high technical or musical value to the listener, can you name one product that is of dubious merit with an outrageous price tag that has remained on the market? I don't think so. These things work themself out of the realm of reality when placed in a free market.

So, we sit around and bitch about something that doesn't really matter and isn't any of our business. Why?

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I have no idea where you're getting this stuff from. And as far as your boners are concerned, that's between you and your own boner. I have no wish to partake in that discussion.

ROTFL

This really is bothering you, isn't it, Alex?

It's very simple, Alex. I laid out the scheme for how to debate this without you assigning blame to others. If you can do it, fine. If not, concede defeat. You have conceded once before. It's not that difficult. Try it.

Or, if you can't debate without trying to blame me or anyone else for what you lack, then just don't debate this topic.

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Show me where I have complained or "preached". Not something you imagine I did, Alex, something I really did.

I'm still waiting for that reply, Alex. Do you have a reply to that? If not, then please apologize for what you claimed I did and implied that I did repeatedly. Don't make these false assertions that you can't back up without expecting to apologize when you are caught. Show me where I preached and complained about someone spending too little, Alex.

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I have no idea where you're getting this stuff from. And as far as your boners are concerned, that's between you and your own boner. I have no wish to partake in that discussion.

Actually, JV is a female , so we can probably leave that discussion aside

I don't know why it bothers JV that people rant about snake oil or prices or whatever.

After all, the title of this section is rants and raves isn't it?

So rant on , Alex, and whoever else wishes to do so.

Perhaps JV should request a debate thread that precludes ranting.

Look at the other post. You don't have far to go. Every time you open your mouth, you're preaching. Don't believe me? Ask anyone else on these forums.

Anybody else getting a sense of Deja Vu all over again?

I apologize for having re-entered the Discount Zone.

I agree with AlexO on about 98.885% of audio topics, and with Jan on a similar percentage of topics, and I like them both and think they are both great. I get a little bummed out when these threads seem to turn so personal. Once again, I'm sorry if I helped get this stirred back up. We should re-focus.

I'm still buzzing about this "different method of conduction" stuff but can't wrap my brain around how you'd terminate a lquid-conductor cable at either end, and how a liquid rather than a soild could "keep the faith" of the audio signal as it conducted it.

Lastly, isn't there only one method of conducting? Conduction seems like conduction, no matter what the medium. Maybe a different 'medium' for conduction, but a different 'method?' Can someone 'splain different conduction methods between cables?

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Look at the other post. You don't have far to go. Every time you open your mouth, you're preaching. Don't believe me? Ask anyone else on these forums.

Uh, ... that's not an answer, Alex. That's just you making more claims of someone else being at fault when you can provide no proof of what you had claimed to be fact. This is just more of the same "you did it first/you're worse than I am" crap that you spread around here, Alex. You claimed I complained and preached when someone spent too little. Now, you either have proof of that or you don't. From your reply, I can only assume you don't and you are still making stuff up to CYA.

Look, Alex, this is getting ridiculous. Why don't you just drop this subject and move on. You are going to loose otherwise.

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I have no idea where you're getting this stuff from. And as far as your boners are concerned, that's between you and your own boner. I have no wish to partake in that discussion.

Actually, JV is a female , so we can probably leave that discussion aside

Oh, that explains everything!!! That changes my entire perspective. I thought I was talking to a dude who had no concept of logic and was unable to follow a thread of discussion. Now, everything makes sense. I beg everyone's forgiveness for being so dense.

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Oh, that explains everything!!! That changes my entire perspective. I thought I was talking to a dude who had no concept of logic and was unable to follow a thread of discussion. Now, everything makes sense. I beg everyone's forgiveness for being so dense.

LOL!

That could have only been written by someone from Brooklyn.

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I'm still buzzing about this "different method of conduction" stuff but can't wrap my brain around how you'd terminate a lquid-conductor cable at either end, and how a liquid rather than a soild could "keep the faith" of the audio signal as it conducted it.

Indeed, despite healthy skepticism I would love to see a schematic or section drawing on how this connection is accomplished.

Hopefully KBK will rejoin the discussions.

RG

Isn't KBK in Austin?

Why doesn't KBK send a demo here to Dallas. Rgiban and I could try it and post impressions.

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Oh, that explains everything!!! That changes my entire perspective. I thought I was talking to a dude who had no concept of logic and was unable to follow a thread of discussion. Now, everything makes sense. I beg everyone's forgiveness for being so dense.

LOL!

That could have only been written by someone from Brooklyn.

Maybe this thread should be retitled the Politically incorrect cable conduction thread

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What I don't understand is what is it about high end audio that attracts these kind of outrageous claims and why the hell don't we, the consumers of high end audio, just throw the bums out instead of trying to defend them.

It seems to me that a lot of people prefer to believe in magic. I see it every day in lottery ticket sales, the constant barrage of TV and radio ads for homeopathic "alternative medicine" products that cannot possibly work, and even - at the risk of po'ing people - in religious beliefs.

Besides a desire to believe in magic, there's also a lot of anti-science sentiment out there. One skeptic magazine article suggested that the anti-science movement began and was fueled by all the horror films that portrayed scientists as mad and evil during the last half of the 20th century. Show scientists as evil often enough, and before you know it a lot of people believe it.

I also see much arrogance such as the common position, "I'm certain I can hear things that science has not yet learned to measure." Just as arrogant is the refusal to understand that ones ears and perception are fragile. So rather than accept that their own hearing is not very reliable, some people instead rail against DBT and favor reviewer opinions over hard data.

--Ethan

Very well said, Ethan. It's a sad state of affairs that there wouldn't be an universal outcry over $15k cables that work voodoo magic, much less fervent defenders of such practices stepping up to the plate.

I admit to needing some help here.

At what price point are interconnects no longer considered 'well made' and enter the realm of magic?

Same goes for other Hi Fi gear.

Can y'all please post the price points where Hi Fi stuff becomes 'magic?'

That would really help.

_

Ethan, iconoclasts on either side lose credibility in my book. Hence, my sig line.

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It's a sad state of affairs that there wouldn't be an universal outcry over $15k cables that work voodoo magic, much less fervent defenders of such practices stepping up to the plate.

And just how do you know what these cables do? This is not limited to cables that are unique in some way, this is merely a rant against anything that is considered over the top by someone with no means and no intention of buying something they will never hear or even see.

No one has provided the name of anyone who has purcahsed these cables. No one has named any product that has remained on the market when it cannot fulfill the promise its price demands. You just like to spout off about stuff you probably don't understand and can't afford.

What part of this continual palaver that is none of your business so upsets you that you must constantly call someone else a fool for suggesting anything of which you disaprove?

Please list those products that have remained and, as has been requested, the price point at which too much is realized. And you might want to mention a few of those "fervent defenders of such practices". Unless you were just making that up too. I don't see anyone defending anything. I see people telling you to mind your own business.

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I admit to needing some help here.

At what price point are interconnects no longer considered 'well made' and enter the realm of magic?

Anything over $50 vis-a-vis interconnects. You may ask: Why $50? I'm glad you asked. The reason I said $50 is because I can make cables myself at a cost of less than $20. So, I allow for overhead and profit margins. Hence, $50 is the price point past which we start sliding into the realm of "overpriced" and into "magic".

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Same goes for other Hi Fi gear.

Can y'all please post the price points where Hi Fi stuff becomes 'magic?'

Sure. The price point for "magic" gear is 1/4 price of an entry level car. Why 1/4 price you may ask? Good question! I'm glad you asked. The reason I say 1/4 is because a car is much more complex, labor intensive and R&D intensive than any piece of hi-fi gear could ever pretend to be. However, cars are produced on mass scale, which reduces production costs. Since there are essentially 4 components that make up a hi-fi (source, preamp, amp, speakers), I figured that the entire package shouldn't cost more than an entry level car if we allow for profit margins, lack of mass scale production, etc. If hi-fi costs more than a car, especially if a single component costs more than a car, then it enters the realm of "magic".

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That would really help.

I hope I have been helpful.

Tom, excuse me for picking on you, but I saw the title of this thread and ignored it for a long time. Now that it's gained such a history I thought I'd scan it to see what it's all about. Well, I can't tell. Evidently a bunch of key posts at the beginning got deleted by the postors or the moderators and it's total gibberish now.

Is there a real product or was the thread started as a troll and grew into something else, or what?

Sorry, but when the thread became 90% of the daily activity I finally thought that I should try to understand it, but there's no hope without help.

Dave

Quote:
So, I allow for overhead and profit margins

I have to admit, Alex, you are entertaining at times.