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March 1, 2007 - 9:31am
#1
One Nut's Reality
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Do you think saying "please" might make it any more effective? If so, please, DUP, please.
DUP reminds me of Vincent Vega..
VINCENT
(calling after him)
A "please" would be nice.
The Wolf stops and turns around.
THE WOLF
Come again?
VINCENT
I said a "please" would be nice.
The Wolf takes a step toward him.
THE WOLF
Set is straight, Buster. I'm not
here to say "please." I'm here to
tell you want to do. And if self-
preservation is an instinct you
possess, you better fuckin' do it
and do it quick. I'm here to help.
If my help's not appreciated, lotsa
luck gentlemen.
JULES
It ain't that way, Mr. Wolf. Your
help is definitely appreciated.
VINCENT
I don't mean any disrespect. I
just don't like people barkin'
orders at me.
THE WOLF
If I'm curt with you, it's because
time is a factor. I think fast, I
talk fast, and I need you guys to
act fast if you want to get out of
this. So pretty please, with sugar
on top, clean the fuckin' car.
Yes, DUP. Respectfully, why would you join a forum for audiophiles and rarely do anything more than criticize their philosophy and way of life? I disagree ideologically with Republicans and I have no intention of joining a Republican forum only to chisel away at their beliefs and values. If you're so adamantly opposed to our pursuits, then I find myself questioning your purpose here.
I'm a Republican, but that still did not stop my Mother and Grandparents from raising me to repsect others. Their instilling in me the idea to "treat other like I would like to be treated" has genrally stood me well. There is no reason to change now. For some that is a hard lesson to be learned.
I worked for a boss who was Bi-polar and could turn into the Exorcist/Linda Blair type in a heart beat and was the most mean-spirited person I have ever known. He would never accept responsibility for any mistake HE made or caused. It was always someone's turn to suffer his rath on a daily basis. It was so tiresome.
I need more friends...not less. This hobby is about bringing joy and sharing a passion for all things audio, music and hardware, no matter what you choose to listen to or with.
This forum has been in kind of a slump lately, and I am not the only one to have noticed it. To have members like Clifton not around and putting in his 2 cents which is usually worth about $100 is not a good thing.
Spring is here, baseballs are in the air, and you poor folks in upstste NY deserve a break from all the snow and cold. I know you have to be ready to hear, "Play Ball!!!!!"
Another issue of "Phile" will give us more to talk about. I hope more JMR is on the way.
To AD: With the price of those Lamm mono-blocks THEY should have come with a watch!!!! LOL, and you would deserve to keep it. You should get two, mono-blocks...mono-clocks.
Like Jim, I'm one of those grey haired Republicans too and am thankful that there is precious little right/left jousting in this forum. We don't need it, we have double blind testing, the comb filter effect and the relative merits of Jazz at the Pawnshop to argue about.
DUP is unique in this crowd and many of us have resorted to the "ignore" coding which is available to all except for the massively patient Stephen. At least, in a sense, Stephen gets paid to screen DUP's blather, but I doubt that he's paid enough.
Like you, the rest of us come here with questions or answers and to share our joys and disappointments with people who accept the level of passion we associate with music and sound equipment. There are other audio forums around, but I like this one the best - notwithstanding DUP.
So the Republican politician was confronted, with the statement, "Your son is a Communist!" He replied, "My son is twenty five. If he were not a Communist, I'd disown him. If, when he is forty, he's still a Communist, I'll disown him." Couldn't resist throwing that one in, because I'm also a guy who, at age 21 gladly stood for an hour in the rain waiting to hear John Kennedy speak and felt privileged to do so.
I agree Jim. Clifton presented nice posts as well as being very educated. All forums that I have visited seem to go through this kind of crap.
It seems that those with the least education are the ones who misrepresent themselves as "scientific" and all knowing. But once one cuts through their facade, one sees the ugly truth about their lack of even basic knowledge.
They don't mention one class they have taken on the subject, because they have nothing higher than high school level. High school level is not college level, let alone post graduate level.
They cannot present any specific data and if they do, it is skewed and/or minipulated in their own selfish interests, when closely examined.
These less educated, while cutting down others as being scammers, have their own facade in place to forward their own selfish interests.
Erik,
Not to take sides one way or the other, but I consider myself an audiophile. I care about high fidelity sound, I play several musical instruments, and I'm am so totally into all aspects of audio that I learned enough about electronics to design audio circuits and became a professional recording engineer. Audio and music are so important to me that I've devoted much of my life to being a professional musician and composer. So I'm not just into the gear (actually, I'm barely into the gear at all), I'm into every single aspect of audio and music.
All of that said, I am also a consumerist. And as such I hate to see folks misled by unscrupulous salespeople. I also have deep respect for science and the scientific method. So while some of you may criticize me for the same things you criticize DUP about, this doesn't mean audio and music are not important to me. Hell, I bet I'm more of an audiophile than 90 percent of folks who consider themselves to be audiophiles!
--Ethan
Yeah, I really miss Cliffy. Maybe he just needed a break from the forum stuff. My local classical station has picked up live performances from the Disney concert hall and I wanted to talk to him about it. Subjectively, the broadcasts from the Pittsburgh orchestra are quite a bit better and I wanted to bend his ear about this.
I have an idea to give the forum a bit of a kick in the butt. We need a periodic giveaway. A sort of trivial pursuit type of thing. I've done this on several other forums I belong to. 'Phile could do a few subscription giveaways or TShirts, coffee mugs...that sort of thing. Even if 'Phile doesn't want to do it, I'll start a few from time to time if there is no objection from Stephen.
Unofficial example: What was the first non turntable related component Mikey Fremmer reviewed for Stereophile? Another example: Which Stereophile issue was the largest in terms of pages? And, what was Sam's super secret, covert, undercover alias when he began reviewing for Stereophile? Stuff like that....
This sort of thing is always fun and never fails to spark numerous discussions.
This is working well.
Hey, DUP. Where are you? Ethan just stated
"I learned enough about electronics to design audio circuits and became a professional recording engineer."
he is a professional recording engineer, with only a high school degree (no college) and no license. I saw you got on another about it, so why not ethan???
I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended politically. I didn't really intend to spark anything, I was just trying to offer an analogy. To Jim and Clay especially, I'm very grateful for all your help and kind words in my posts and I didn't mean to criticize your beliefs in any way. For what it's worth, I have four best friends and three of them are right of center.
Anyway, enough of that. Ethan, I think you make a good point that it's entirely possible to be critical of methods and components and still be very much a music lover or audiophile (I've been told there's difference, but I'm not entirely sure what it is. Personally, I think accurate representation of music is central to the enjoyment of it. But, anyway...) It's clear that this is a contentious topic that I, as a newbie, ought not involve myself with. Again, to Clay, Jim, and many others, I have nothing but respect for you and didn't want to bring down the mood. I think you're right, Jim, that this forum should be about friends and fun. Even DUP often has positive things to say.
Well, this post is running long and cutting into my listening time, so I'll see you guys later.
Peace and love
Please relax, Erik. You certainly don't owe me any apologies nor did your reference to your political stance offend me in any way. I'll go further. I know Jim well enough that I'm sure he'd say the same things to you.
One thing I meant to add to my last post was that following the Kennedy campaign speech I went home to my Empire turntable, Shure cartridge, Sherwood receiver, and Wharfedale's and listened to some Clark Terry. Love of music and audio goodies always transcends politics.
Like the others I also miss Clifton - great writer, passionately devoted to music and with more cash spent on equipment over the years than I've ever been able to scrape up. If/when he returns to the forum you're in for a real treat.
Another guy I miss is Ralph (Jazzfan). In hopes that I can lure him out, I'll divert from the main line of this post and offer praise for the recently released, limited edition Ultimate SACD version of " Jazz at the Pawnshop " No "audiophile" should be without it - or so they say.
No engineer if ya ain't got no papers that say so. Anyone can call oneself an "engineer". too bad self pro claimed titles don't work in a court. Why not Dr.? Why not DDS? Pick a title. Checkout the LAWS especially in Tx. Why not put PE after your name....hope your liability insurance covers fraud
Entertaining, big time. Can't put it down, something about insanity keeps drawing me back!!!! It's also why I read SteroPhile, have for over 30 years, it's become very entertaining as it keeps going out on the fringe of insanity. With some reviewers and what they imply what they wanna convince people what they HEAR!!!! MF is so far out in some other planet, what an imagination. And after viewing teh PS Audio DVD Coal to Coal...man, that guy is a fiction writer, or a politican. Says nothing, but fills time. Wrtiers coem and go, that's why that Scull dude used to be a "reviewer" now is a promtion markeitng sales dude, it takes the gift of gab, say nothing and try to sell anything, didn't teh other guy go on to sell razors or something? JA is the ONLY one based in science and reality...I be if JA had his way, he'd not allow many of the reviewers be allowed to make comments about how they can hear the improvements in thi swall plug or that plug, cus' come on, we all know it's a lot of hooyey!!! Like demagnetizing PLASTIC, $45K CD only players, with horrible distortions, ya know the drill. Now this guy with the Comb Filtering that makes everything void, so all mics and speakers being tested are invalid, "COMB FILTERING"...that would mean everything is useless...no test is valid, cus' ya moved 1 inch...now that's the thoughts of an engineer.....HA! How do the Rolling Stones do it, watch Mick jump all over at 67 or so years old, how could his recording be any good...he MOVED!!!!! It's all entertaining, the thoughts of the nutty. On the education front, responding to how the least educated have the most opinions, I agree, I didn't get past 9 grade.......That was considered COLLGE where I come from!!!! I learned my GAZINTS and GUZOUTAS...that all I needed. Keep up teh great work, I love teh entertainment.....Call me Dr. DUP for now on...self Proclaimed, like an engineer. with no credentials
No need for the F wurd....low class knock it off will ya?
Where did you get the idea I have no college? I took all the courses needed to get a degree in music (3.92 average, 30 years ago when that actually meant something). But since I already had a career in electronics I didn't bother with the off-topic stuff needed to get a degree in music.
Not that going to college is worth anything other than for doctors and lawyers and maybe a few other fields. Hey, someone has to graduate last in their class!
For most fields all that matters is how much you know, not how many letters are listed after your name. I used to own a software company that specialized in selling very difficult to write assembly language code to other programmers. We were the "expert's experts" in our field, and we even sold to Microsoft. Not one of the programmers who worked for me had a degree related to computer programming. One of my top guys back then has a degree in fine arts, but he's such an excellent programmer he now works for Microsoft on the Vista team.
--Ethan
Erik, you would have to go along way further to offend me. I was called a Bible-Thumper on the floor of the State House...I took it as a compliment!!!!!!!!! Clay and I are not thin-skinned. All is well.
PS Clay went to see JFK and chances are that if JFK JR had not died in that plane crash and had run for President someday I might have voted for him. He seemed to be one of the most reasonable thinking, honest, and consiencious Kennedys around. I don't care how many times he took the Bar Exam. Anyway, politics and intelligence seem to be polar opposites. Sometimes I think the "I" needs to be removed from CIA. Or maybe it means just "Information".
LOL
Someone posted a poll on this forum and surprisingly it turned out the majority lean conservative. But we still have representatives of resentment that prefer to hold on to the fact that Gore won the popular vote on not the electoral college. Shit happens. So, from time-to-time we as a people bicker amongst ourselves over trivial bullshit instead of getting off our dead asses and actually doing something constructive or complaining about shit that won't ever have an impact on our normal daily lives or about things we don't know shit about. What a waste of time.
Sincerely:
Gary Johnston
Team America
Putting the "F" back in Freedom.
.
Money dammit! They make M-O-N-E-Y!
What's this got to do with the original point of the thread?
Pay attention. It wasn't a reply to the original part of the thread.
"Hell, I bet I'm more of an audiophile than 90 percent of folks who consider themselves to be audiophiles!"
Then what, Ethan? You might also have added more self absorbed than most, don't you think?
Sorry, I got confused seein' as how it's in this thread and all.
Actually, I was referring to any of this after about the third post.
">>he is a professional recording engineer, with only a high school degree (no college)"
"Where did you get the idea I have no college? I took all the courses needed to get a degree in music (3.92 average, 30 years ago when that actually meant something). But since I already had a career in electronics I didn't bother with the off-topic stuff needed to get a degree in music."
>>Because I made this comment in another string and you never replied to correct my comment. I also don't see it with your list of credits (quick better add it and call me an idiot).
>>Your so called "career in electronics" was the typical tinkering around as a teen, reading some books like the radio amateurs handbook etc and presto. I did the same, but designed and built, and got a formal education. I would suggest it for you as well, as you obviously, desperately need it.
"Not that going to college is worth anything other than for doctors and lawyers and maybe a few other fields. Hey, someone has to graduate last in their class!
"
>>You have to pump yourself up because no one else is doing it?? Maybe you should concentrate on music since you majored in it. (By the way, your incinuation about me being last in my class is a total scam and lie.)
>>Let's take a look under ethan's facade. A couple of examples.
>>If one looks closely at ethan's comb filtering graph at his website, one will see the peaks and valleys at the highs are more than at lower frequencies.
>>This is the worst possible room scenario ethan could have possibly presented. Even a minimal of any soft material at the first reflection points etc would drastically change his graph at the higher frequencies.
So you used a bare room??
>>And then he uses this extreme example to pursue why comb filtering would mask any differences in power cords. But notice he cannot prove it. He can only guess.
"For most fields all that matters is how much you know, not how many letters are listed after your name. I used to own a software company that specialized in selling very difficult to write assembly language code to other programmers."
>>Right. Everything is difficult when you undertake it, but you are so brilliant. Got ya.
>>Unfortunately, and this is important as ethan claims to know more than those with degrees.
Even a first years electronics engineering course reveals how little you actually know about electronics. That was painfully obvious in our conversation in another string.(By the way, language program is not electronics.) For example:
>>ethan didn't even understand that the last power supply capacitor, at the top of Rc (collector resistor) or RL (plate resistor) is in the signal path. (This is learned in 1st year electronics engineering class and is a FACT. There are no apposing opinions concerning this. So ethan doesn't even understand a basic audio stage, which is contrary to his claim above.) More.
>>He then crowns himself a professional recording engineer, and proudly claims he designed (implies he understood) and built his 16 channel recording console. This while not even understanding how a basic electronic stage works.
>>All in all, imo, your facade is good at BSing and conning the consumer.
Sorry, I got confused seein' as how it's in this thread and all.
Actually, I was referring to any of this after about the third post.
While I understand that people are offended by DUP's tactics, I think he offers a good service and counterpoint. I would disagree with the premise that DUP has no "valid justification".
A few months ago, Stereophile published a review of a cable claiming to have a vacuum. The reviewer seemed to endorse the claim that the cable was suspended in a vacuum as well. This was a claim that should have been greeted by a reviewer for a consumer audio mag with skepticism and instead it was endorsed. Well, guess what? The manufacturer was LYING, and it wasn't the first time. And people are mad at DUP...
When Nordost was reviewed, a more reputable company that provides measurement specs for cables, their cables were not measured, unlike an amp or a speaker would be. We were told to ponder their mystery, even thought their mystery is explained on their website.
This is a problem with the magazine, and, until it is corrected, and cables are treated with the same level of skepticism and measurement as amps and speakers, DUP serves a purpose. Is it wrong for readers to want cables to be treated the same as other products? People read 'phile cause they like the combo of reviews and measurements. If I wanted an essay busting with delight over a controversial product and snidely deriding anyone who questioned it, I'd read the manufacturers advertisement. I'm on the magazines side. I want good info about cables, and not plaudits about a company that is clearly dishonest. I'm open to the possibility that they are improvable, but the level of discussion is not good right now.
And by the way, for the poster who questions people's education. I have a PhD in physics, wired circuits for several labs that needed to reconstruct signals far more sensitive than audio and helped a friend build a studio. If you want to get into a CV pissing contest with anyone who has a reasonable criticism of a subject, I'll be glad to e-mail you mine...
"This is working well"
DUP is very smart and has contributed a lot to the forum. There has been more than one thread devoted to DUP as a sort of character assassination. But like most egotistical snobs, DUP is an obnoxiously conceited person. Some people are getting sick to their stomach. To prevent the celebrated pimp, thief, and confidence man, Alec Hoag, from turning over in his grave, I will refrain from referring to DUP as a Smart Aleck. But whereas Smart Aleck and his accomplices robbed foolish Johns of their money and valuables, DUP and his little enablers rob this board of meaningful participation by the average person that reads the magazine and ventures over to these forums for a little banter by belittling NFGs. And like Mr. Hoag, DUP has finally outsmarted himself by pissing off the police that will no longer protect him. So, please spare us the surprise at the sight of sharks circling the pool of blood as well as your resume. Doctor.
No problem voicing an opinion, but when one posts the same rhetoric over and over and puts others down by calling them nutty it gets quite tiresome. And neither DUP or winer really have any credentials to speak of. That has been amply demonstrated.
B, may I ask what the subject of your thesis was? Has it been published?
I am currently gathering some more info, which I hope to present later if I can find it on the internet.
Assassinate the dude but please spare us with the "credential" crap and thesis subterfuge deflection. DUP knows audio equipment. You may not like his prose but stick to his shortcomings and don't make the mistake of attacking his knowledge on the subject of audio electronics. Some of you "nuts" are like the Shiites at the gallows with Saddam. You just can't keep you mouth shut until "after" the neck is broke. You have to belittle DUP's knowledge on something he probably knows more about than yourselves. Just stick to DUP's utter lack of interpersonal communication skills. Leave out the technical criticism. It gives DUP validity because the criticism is way off base. "Credentials"? Please. You should read, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". The "Chief" turned out to be completely sane. The only one. Put that into your thesis and smoke it.
"A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it."
And there lies the answer to why most of us have taken refuge from this increasingly dismal and boring thread!
Cheapskate: Fair Enough
301: You can PM me to spare the others... Theses in Physics are not published in their entirety, two papers based on it were published.
Ya, right.
DUP has shown over and over again he is the nut case, and has very little knowledge of audio.
After all the attacks by DUP and others on the subjectivists and claiming to be scientific and having credentials; it gets hot when it is you guys who finally get closely examined and what is revealed under the facade, for a change.
Heard any good frozen outlets or cords lately? Ooops, I is repeating myself...I must be on a Pecan run...I is nutts.
I have yet to be at a live event where they needed a frozen wire or outlet....maybe a frozen ice cube to cool off their drinks, but not the wires. but then, I is nuts...is it sane to spend thousands of dollars on a piece of wire, that really has no technical advantage based on any standards of wire mfg. The wire industry is based on standards, technical specs etc. Not the names of this month's river or rodent or reptile. I'nm nuts? think think think...a piece of wire lifted off the floor...and YOU can hear the effects!!! Now come on....Cable ELEVATORS!!!! Making an audible difference!!!! Fess up, who is really nuts here.I'm thinking Julian Hirsch was on to something.......most do all sound the same....think a very expensive amplifeir that didn't meet published specs missing by how much was it a mere 500 or so watts!! And teh reviewer dismisses it, saying who needs all that extra power, when it's so powerful anyway!!! Then the ones with the incredible ears dismiss amps from the likes of Crown QSC and many other rationaly priced super reliable, great sounding amps as non musical.....they meet specs, they perform without effort, who's nuts?
"Heard any good frozen outlets or cords lately? Ooops, I is repeating myself...I must be on a Pecan run...I is nutts.
I have yet to be at a live event where they needed a frozen wire or outlet....maybe a frozen ice cube to cool off their drinks, but not the wires."
>>Producing the music is quite different than reproducing the music. Brilliant knowledge DUP.
"but then, I is nuts...is it sane to spend thousands of dollars on a piece of wire, that really has no technical advantage based on any standards of wire mfg. The wire industry is based on standards, technical specs etc."
>>Another one of the prime examples of DUP being on a valium holiday. Manufacturers and UL are not interested in audio and 99.999% of wire is used for other purposes. Got to laugh at your response DUP. Is this what sanford suggests as being DUPs finest hour?
"Then the ones with the incredible ears dismiss amps from the likes of Crown QSC and many other rationaly priced super reliable, great sounding amps as non musical.....they meet specs, they perform without effort, who's nuts?"
>>Crown made something sound good??
>>Of course there is nonsense out there, both in the subjective and the objective crowd. So why don't you pick on those in the objective crowd as well?
>>And what about cars, deodorant, aftershaves and perfumes? You could start movements in those areas.
>>You have posted the same lame opinion about 1300 times on the same subject. And you wonder why we want you banned. Let others and the market decide for themselves, dictator.
Speaking of after shave/deodorant....you probably think if you use AXE it'll bring on the females right? Old Spice is the analog of after shaves. Isn't it making a resurgence? After all teh new items, isn't Old
Spice better smelling, longer lasting. Price should now be about $50/bottle, just becaue it can...like TT. Cus Analog sounds better right? Does it really? Not really.
LOL.
"Ya?...on the subjectivists?...scientific?...credentials?" Huh?
"Ya?...on the subjectivists?...scientific?...credentials?" Huh?"
>>I have suggest reading material several times. Do a search.
>>I have Asked for studies and other material dozens of times, but not one time has any come forth over the years. Afterall, shouldn't the objectivists be a source of studies, info etc, since they claim to be scientifically inclined?
Why do they hide it from us, Lamont?
And the debate devolves again....
Maybe one day stereophile will test cables and put some actual info out there, people will realize that questioning companies engaged in deceit is not equivalent to treading on people's ability to hear and that a white paper from TARA labs isn't "info", and people can chill out.
All I want is for stereophile to test cables, not a metaphysical debate. Scientists don't test them cause they don't care. Labs rely on signal detection for low temp conductors and they seem to get along fine. Audiophiles have different needs, so this really isn't an explored subject I am aware, which is why it would be nice if stereophile explored it....
Anyway, I'm out. Again, feel free to PM me, esp if you have any good reading material.
last year,in a Greek hi-fi forum,i was asked by a new member
to tell him what is the difference between cables,pricing and the way they are made.I have been using "hi-fi" cables for over 18 years and here is my conclusion regarding the manufacturers etc.
There are 3 kind of cable manufacturers.
a) Those who admit their cables play better without knowing why.
b) those who talk BS and whoever wants to believe,so be it.
c) those who begin with simple explanations and end up talking rocket science and whoever understands understood.
There is no magic formula with cables.The manufacturer experimants with different matterials and when,usually by chance, finds something he/she likes,sends it for production
The Stereophile website (not forums) has an extensive reading list. Do a search.
"Ya?...on the subjectivists?...scientific?...credentials?" Huh?"
That is it, the only answer you can give is search stereophile?? No other information to provide your highness. And you have the two face nerve to question the credentials of the subjectivists? Another DUP in disquise.
B, there is nothing from stopping you from PMing me with the info.
I don't like making posts like this. When I made this post, I was concerned that it might evolve into something else - something unruly, unmanageable. I think this is happening now, so I'll try to re-focus.
I made this post because I felt it was necessary to publicly and formally let DUP know that his comments often upset me. DUP, I had hoped that you would read my post and feel moved to either:
1. change (ie., stop being so rude, condescending, repetitive) or
2. stop participating in the forum altogether.
DUP, I don't like your presence here. For the most part, I don't appreciate what you offer. Every now and then, you make a valid point, you remind us that this hobby can take itself too seriously, that this hobby can be extravagant. However, in my opinion, your negativity far outweighs any positive gain. In my opinion, you are not trying to help, but only trying to hurt.
DUP, it makes me happy to know that there are many members who have decided to ignore you. It would make me happier, however, if you didn
I was just emulating your own suggestion. Your words. Not mine. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Well, stick a fork in this thread. It's done. DUP, write like a human being. Please. It's a bad sign for the editor of the magazine to invite you to leave. As for the others. Well, they have "credentials". So, sign de papers. Otherwise, they are likely to saw your head off and post it on the Internet.
I agree. Thanks.