Columns Retired Columns & Blogs |
May 16, 2006 - 12:33pm
#1
Sterephile makes as much sense as a bag of hammers.
Loudspeakers Amplification | Digital Sources Analog Sources Featured | Accessories Music |
Columns Retired Columns & Blogs |
Loudspeakers Amplification Digital Sources | Analog Sources Accessories Featured | Music Columns Retired Columns | Show Reports | Features Latest News Community | Resources Subscriptions |
Hey, don't go!
There's a guy here named DUP who you should get to know. Check the posts in the "past issues" forum. You guys have alot in common.
I don't get the "bag of hammers" part. Are they better carried in boxes or something?
Sorry I can't stay, I gotta head over to Radio Shack for that incredible turntable, then I'm going to a money burning party!
If you're only burning twenties, maybe try finding some back issues of Stereo Review at the local library or Goodwill.
Don't be mad, stay and talk music or cheaper gear or whatever. The more points of view, the better the discussions!
I've got out my partsexpress.com catalog. I'm going to put some two-way loudspeakers with crossovers together. I'm going to sell them for $1,500 a pair. I was wondering if Stereophile will be interested in reviewing a set? Or is that too cheap? Should I sell them for two or three thousand dollars? Maybe higher if I can get the review in the magazine? Let me know. Thanks!
Also, I could use some input on where to place the crossovers in the cabinet. For my selling price, I think I should encapsulate them in something within the cabinets. The only catch would be is that any parts have to come out of the partsexpress catalog.
First you have to have a number of dealers lined up to even be considered for a possible review. At that price you are not going to "cryo" the components? How can these be considered High End? You should buy a booth and take them to HE in LA in a couple of weeks.
DAD? That you, where you been hiding?
Bwuhahahah! See, you do have a sense of humor! That was funny.
I don't know. I never thought about that. How many dealers are selling the ninety thousand dollar turntable? I just got my flyer to HE in LA. How can I miss the one hour show of Melora Hardin, "Torch Singer" and look-alike of Jan Levinson-Gould. Now, wait a minute? Nah, no way!
And how can my idea on high end loudspeakers be considered? Simple. The price, baby! The price!
BTW, I challenge Stereophile to build a couple of loudspeakers from components from partsexpress.com and compare them to some super high end set of loudspeakers with their fancy graphs and whatnots so lets just see how high end or overrated the latter really are? How about that? Ah! I doubt it will ever happen what with all the political kickbacks and under the table transactions from the super high end dealers that sell something like a ninety thousand dollar turntable. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest. What is good for the company is good for everyone. Right? Catch-22.
Wow, do you buzz over to Car and Driver's site and insist they build a car and then measure it against the cars they review?
Maybe you could get Consumer Reports to build you a blender and test it.
Also, you are into comparing graphs? That's your main sonic criterion?
I guess that makes sense, you obviously disdain listening - which allows you to equate a Radio Shack turntable with a specialty table.
The perseverating about one company, www.partsexpress.com fits DUP's M.O.
Maybe Stephen can check IP's. You sound so much like DUP with this getting such a hard on for that turntable that I wonder if you are him or maybe DUP's dupe.
How would you expect a 90 thousand dollar turntable to perform?
I would guess, better than most others, but the price point is beyond me. If others dig it and buy what do I care? Why is it your concern to try and regulate what other consumers want to do?
Maybe JA can send out the next issue with a Valium and one of those airline bottles of vodka. You can take them before reading about some piece of gear whose price you don't approve of and avoid inflaming your delicate sensibilities.
Better yet, just subscribe only to Radio Shack's and Parts Express' newletters and all will be bliss.
I'm getting a vibe like Chef, from Apocalypse Now...as I recall..."Chef was too tightly wrapped for Vietnam. Shit, Chef was too tightly wrapped for New Orleans..."
Dude, hang and relax. Please spare us www.partsexoress.com commercials or they'll end up being thought of in the same light as Audio by Van Alstine and Focus Whispers.
If I had a dollar for every time someone trolling me spelled the name of the magazine incorrectly, I'd be able to afford that $90k turntable!
John Atkinson
Editor, StereOphile
Ain't me...I also like www.mcminone.com for stuff like wires, connectors etc. Cheap, works well, no frozen pieces. Never had a "bag" of hammers...don't get that one either. Radio Shack is not for me either, overpriced, under spec J___. I only read European Car for auto stuff. so escuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, I'm a snob. If it ain't GERMAN it ain't a car. No Car and Driver for me. and I will never cancel my subscription, I said early on, very entertaining!!! The ads, with the claims of the month, the voltage levels keep increasing for that biased insulation..up to 72V, this month, last month's 36V I guess didn't work, I'm waiting for 120V so we plug RCA connectors into line voltage!!!! And i really like teh heated then frozen wires, man, that's got me all confused, which really made it sound great the heat or the cold? Heated, froze, used at room temperature. WOW, it's like it's own climate changes in a box!!!
You seemingly cannot get most dealers to carry a $500 turntable even though the tt business is flourishing. Find me a highend dealer who would even care enough about vinyl to own one, let alone stock one. A Continuum or how about being an SME dealer? Forgettabouddit.
When I was in the business it took me 6 months to get a Moon, Conrad Johnson, B and W, JM Labs dealer to take on Music Hall or Thorens. Go figure. He chose Music Hall. The other side of town I got them to take on Thorens after months of calls. Selling TTs takes passion and commitment. This was all years ago and I gave up the fight.
I have read where JA was so excited about a product he saw and heard at a show he asked for a review sample. He did the same thing for the Tascam DV-RA1000 DSD recorder and I believe he is still waiting and has probably given up hope by now. They are now even bundling it with DiscWelder Bronze 1000 which would be right up JA's alley.
If building speakers is something you "just what to try", I think EBay might be a good place to try as well.
I also think that the future is going to be more manufacturers having showrooms around the country, joining forces with other non competing manufacturers, as the audio dealer base continues to dwindle. The LTE this month about not being able to demo gear IS the reality.
If more shows like HE were avaiable in more locations around the country the public could see gear they would never see at their local dealers. I know these shows are expensive, but it does give the manufacturer more control how their products are presented and directly gives them leads to follow up on.
Buddha --- great post. It seems to the untrained ear (or eye) that you actually thought about what you wanted to express! A rare trait indeed. I get soo tired of these buffoons who have never heard a product, but know exactly how it sounds, and since they are too poor to afford it, it must be junk. Funny, they have no trouble justifying what they spent on their system, but anyone who spent a penny more is the biggest idiot who ever lived, since they are the standard against which every other audiophile should be judged!!!
Oh no, lets not bother with facts, lets all give our opinion as if they are of equal value with the person who has heard the product being discussed. Sometimes it's very difficult to be polite toward people who post like that...
I've never heard a $90,000 turntable, but I bet it sounds great. I have heard tables in the $20,000 range and they sound better than my Sota Cosmos.
I would guess the poster is a huge Parts Express fan due to the fact that the e-mail address has 'sex' in it!
Bag of hammers? I assure you it makes a lot of sense to a tradesperson. The ole
The Large Advents weren't sold as pairs, so they didn't come with matched serial numbers. If you bought two Large Advents (giving the salesperson twice the $8 spiff he got on a single speaker), most of the time you got the two nearest the warehouse door.
BTW, quite a few of us have built good-sounding loudspeakers from parts sold at Parts Express and other sources. You're right, it's not that hard. What's harder is building a second pair that measures identically to the first -- and building thousands more that do likewise, while supporting your customers, vendors, and employees.
That's the step that most home speaker builders seldom master. Tell you what: Produce a real loudspeaker, manufacture a few hundred of them, and convince at least five North American dealers to actually carry them and demonstrate them on their salesfloors and I'll gladly review them in the magazine, comparing them against any speaker you choose, no matter how silly its price.
Or you could go back under your bridge and continue shaking down billy goats.
Quote:Or you could go back under your bridge and continue shaking down billy goats. End Quote.
Now that is funny. "Whose that trip-trappin over my bridge?
Nope, June Issue, Moscode sold DIRECT!! Now there is NO excuse to NOT review the Ultra Hybrids from VanAlstine....Do it already!! www.avahifi.com
You are right back in the 70's I had the double Advent system 4 large Advents, in the house, none of the serial numbers with in order, just how they stack em, and grab em. Let alone ones from 30 years ago!!!! And what does it mean anyway, not having numbers in order? come on, he is more nuts than even wire listeners. He's got serial number disease..OCD? Needs things in line? Zoloft Zoloft Zoloft!!! It does a body good.
One of the things that impressed me about this 34 year-old pair of speakers was, even though the serial numbers were not consecutive -- they were 47106 and 47877 but had been purchased together -- the two's measured performance did match pretty closely. I've experienced modern designs with consecutive serial numbers that measured more differently.
Fol de rol, y'all.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
PS: One aspect of DIY speakers is that hobbyists rarely have access to drive-units that conform to the tightest specification. I was told some years ago by a drive-unit manufacturer that when they fulfill an order for a major manufacturer who, say, specifies a tolerance of +/-1dB, those that fall outside this window are sold into the DIY market. I can't vouch for the truth of this, but it sounds likely.
I heartily recommend the DIY route BTW, as a way of educating oneself about audio, just not as a means of getting the best sound quality on the cheap.
Hi, Culpeper,
Let's see. Where do I start? First, you can't be DUP's dad: you spelled at least 20 words correctly, and HE spent $16,000 or thereabouts on a pair of Wurlitzers -- advertised in Stereophile and about to be reviewed. Sorry, DUP. You'll have to keep looking.
I have had cheap systems and expensive systems, over the 35 or so years I have been trying to upgrade my way closer and closer to the sound I hear Wednesdays and Fridays at Disney Hall. The expensive ones have always sounded better. Damn. There IS a rough correlation between price and performance, although there ARE many exceptions. There is a tipping point, where merely spending more money doesn't necessarily get you better sound, but I don't think anybody could defend a specific price point. In today's dollars (which are a mere shadow of their former selves), my guess would be around the $40,000 TOTAL system price (including analog), but I wouldn't want to debate any specific number. This one is just a rough guess based on my own shopping. The Advents would be considerably more expensive in today's dollars, and probably wouldn't be as good a relative bargain today as they were in the '70's. I owned the "Large Avents," and almost bought a second pair to stack, but decided to stay portable. As I look back, I liked them, but wanted much more: they couldn't even begin to compare in quality to the ones I presently own. Nostalgia doesn't negate real progress, and real progress has certainly occurred.
"Stereophile is nothing but a small group of audiophile snobs with an agenda that is not a going concern for the magazine." Hmmm. This sounds circular, in a strangely self-negating way. Stereophile is not a going concern for ITSELF??? It IS a going concern for other audiophile snobs, of which I am one (being picky picky about what I will listen to). That's why I subscribe. Does everything have to be egalitarian to be valid? Isn't quality always preferable to mediocrity, and doesn't the former always attract snobs? Of course, I am assuming the POSITIVE polarity of the term "snob." The negative polarity (i.e., "stuck up," "too big for their britches," etc.) just doesn't apply. John, Sam, Art, and Wes...snobs in the negative sense??? Nah. They seem like regular guys to me. I'll bet if I walked up to any of 'em at the show, he would smile and want to chat...providing he wasn't pressed for time. Of course, I'm a fellow snob (positive sense), but, hey, I'll bet any one of 'em would be happy to talk to you, too! I am just guessing here, at your meaning. You have to admit, the sentence is pretty opaque.
Radio Shack turntables. Have you ever HEARD one of these? I rest my case.
Well, I guess that's about it. Sorry you don't like the magazine. I'll bet they'd be happy to refund your money. Did you keep your receipt? Cheers, Clifton
Except we've already spent it, on fast women and slowly matured Scotch!
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Brilliant!
I'm gonna use that.
"But honey, it's not that I'm irresponsible, I'm just slowly matured."
I'm also heartened by the fact that Stereophile doesn't waste money on slow women. Everyone knows that pace and timing are crucial to proper enjoyment.
I mean, really, has any audiophile ever bragged about having a nice, slow system?
Kudos, JA.
Keep up the fine work!
I understand. You have to be quick, dealing with this crowd! I can't catch the fast ones any more, John, and I've made a killing in the markets this year. So I'LL refund his money! He's got to show a receipt, though...I'm not spending a dime to sponsor his time in somebody else's loo. And YOU guys. Insatiable sponges. I'll not contribute to YOUR debauchery, so don't even ask! You've already peed out every dime I've sent you over the past 25 years, haven't you. Clifton
I thought that was what the advertisers and manufacturers were supposed to be using to bribe you with?
Elizabeth probably hasn't even left yet and you guys are already mixing up trashcan punch.
She was out the door at 12pm. The bottle of gin was opened at 12:01. And, whoa, I just peed out one of Clifton's dimes.
It was actually solid gold.
Why is everybody against me? Sorry about spelling "Stereophile" incorrectly but I couldn't find it in the dictionary. Just keep the political comments out of the magazine and I won't make fun of the equipment reviewed by MIT graduates.
Buddha,
I can't believe that you haven't declared this thread one of your famous "party threads", because it's turning out to be one of the all time best. It's got fast women, booze and all kinds of cash flying around and it's what, a day old! Now that's my kind of party.
Why yes, I do remember once having a rather slooow system but then I got the cassette player's drive fixed and everything was back up to speed.
"Trashcan punch": isn't that what was served at the acid tests?
Now for my real question, will this party continue on and carry over into the upcoming HE show in June? Because if the is yes, I'm booking my flight tonight
Book it.
If in this Pee my Coinage mingled bee
With thy Distillate Spirits wed,
'Tis wanton waste of Golden Grain I see,
As well as alloy stamped with Franklin's head.
In Woe begets thy wastrel Alchemee,
This poesy'd Teare my Tragick Muse doth shed.
Uh oh, Clifton's gotten into the malmsey again. Stephen, I thought we told you to lock the wine cellar when you brought up the last round!
Whoa, now they've invited Mapplethorpe to the party.
Stephen must have Midas' touch as well.
I guess we know where his hands have been.
Stephen's quote sounds suspiciously reminiscent of a Warren Zevon lyric. It fits the Trader Vic's part of Werewolves of London, it does.
Party on, Stephen and Wes!
Aaaaaaah. Too late. Urp. Now, whersh'ish guy who coudn' fin' "pedophile" inna dishhonnary???
[quoteExcept we've already spent it, on fast women and slowly matured Scotch!
Wow, you can buy good matured scotch at the price I paid for my subscription??? Where you shoppin' JA? The Dollar Store?
Don L
I did! I swear.
Clifton must've pee'd out the key.
[Wait till Elizabeth gets back and learns of this discussion.]
Pee'd out the key?
Great, now he's channeling Robert Langdon.
There once was a boy from New Jersey
With no Death Wish like Paul Kersey
He spoke of a key
That came out in pee
As we grooved to tunes from the Mersey.
Of Elizabeth and Clifton he's spoken
(Not the ones we drive by chokin')
She left at 12 noon
And he's drunk as a loon
And lord knows what he's tokin'...
Seconded! Or seconal-ed. Ah, hell. I showed up late again. Where's the keg?
Warren Zevon? No, it's from The Golden Waterfall, a masque written by a little-known poet from The Lake School, I.P. Wavingly. His cousin, Seymour Butts, wrote Under the Bleachers . Any other allusions you want tracked down (nay, stomped down), I'm your man.
Are you insinuating that there is an underlying dogma to the magazine? No wonder you guys are worried about wiretapping from Big Brother. Maybe one of you MIT graduates can do a review of some of the audio equipment the NSA has stashed away in secret rooms at AT&T or Verizon
Okay, How is Melora Hardin and Jan Levinson-Gould related? I'll give you a hint. The former will be performing at the much anticipated HE in LA (sarcasm emphasized). Winner gets a $90k turntable from Stereophile Magazine.
Culpeper!
I look forward to not seeing you there!
Before i disagree a bit...
JA, on your test disc #3 when the crowd of people are saying "this is the right ch, the right ch." and so forth. I still get a kick (and a smile) when your young child at the time is about 1/2 sec behind everyone else!
Now to the DIY speakers: I put together this kit from madisound. 1.5 yrs ago. still have them.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3237796.27131&pid=1895
I would match them to any pair <3K and they would 'win.' Win what, I'm not sure but they would hold their own.
A true self-actualized audiophile wouldn't even notice let alone think about it.
Beautiful case-in-point! Thank you. And I'm seriously going to look at that project. Instead of reading and drooling over something we can't have we can build it instead and in the process learn to understand it. But without the reviews on the so-called overrated equipment we would have nothing to compare and contrast. There is just one catch. The opportunity cost would be constructive criticism instead of attracting attention to oneself because of uninformed political motivation like making biased political comments about something an MIT graduate knows nothing about. Unless of course, they hand out political science and law degrees at MIT. Such a wonderful educational institution for the liberal arts, MIT. It is just that some people should stick to what they do know. Like software that makes fancy graphs that only an MIT graduate truly understands and reminiscing over a glass of scotch about Professor Bose catching you smoking in the boys' restroom. Just think of the irony. Throwing your line in the political pond through an audiophile magazine is the ultimate trolling.
You seem eager to pounce on this one, Culpeper. I hope you find what you're looking for. Look under "P," not "S."
I empathize with your bitterness over not making the grade at MIT. I don't understand it, being success oriented myself...but I empathize. I feel your pain. Take heart. Legend has it that Einstein failed beginning Algebra. True or not, America is the land of opportunity, and I'm sure you'll be able to find an appropriate venue for developing your, er, special talents.
You seem hung up on politics. Again, I feel your pain, but (sorry) I can't help you there. As I understand it, you have to start at the grass roots and raise some serious money. Good luck. As a potential donor, I must say your agenda is rather vague. Tell me about yourself. I have a few hundred thousand I'm loathe to part with, but, who knows? If you've got the right pitch, maybe we'll both be on national TV some day. I WILL insist on an important cabinet post, though.
Opportunity cost. Hey, as an old speculator, I KNOW that one! Careful. America was built by speculators. Opportunity cost is the security (usually defined by Treasury yields) you give up when you go after higher returns in a riskier arena. What is "safe" and what is "risky" here? This sounds suspiciously like a bad metaphor.
I believe MIT has one of the top Political Science departments in the country. Yes, they do CONFER Political Science and other Liberal Arts degrees, but nothing gets "handed out." There is, to my knowledge, no Law School at MIT, but if you make it through the rigors of any undergraduate program, the best Law Schools in the country will be at your feet. Of course, how would you know all this, having been rejected? Condolences, Clifton
Well, with pre-manufactured kits such as this, the manufacturer does have access both to design talent and a test lab, so my comments are not relevant. Madisound has done all the hard work, leaving just the assembly and possibly the cabinet construction to the builder. I was referring to those who start from scratch, choose drive-units, design a crossover. and incorporate it all into a cabinet of their own design.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
I don't think that's actually the case. It's just that from the wording of your original post, you were obviously spoiling for a fight and people reacted in ways they thought appropriate.
No problem, I was just making fun of the mispelling due to the fact that the magazine obviously has a major impact on your life as an audiophile, yet you apparently weren't aware of its name. My apologies, of course, if you were offended by this attempt at humor.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
I thought for certain that Hoboken would find its way into this piece.
"D'OH!"
Actually, it'll be in the 'Deleted Scenes' of the Signature Edition.
Jeff, Stephen, this needs to be taken to a higher plane. Jeff, your limerick shows neglected poetic talent. To further stimulate your Muse, I offer the following paean to the greatest composer in the history of Western Music.
A young violinist named Jacques
Tied a G-string to his Cacques.
Then he got an erection
And played a selection
From Johann Sebastian Bacques.
Dear Clifton:
Then you could understand my astonishment when I found "P" under "S"! Also, is it not the pot calling the kettle black with, "[my] eagarness to pounce", considering you thought about it for another sixty-five minutes to pounce on it again? I find your feeble attempt at deflection through the use of gay poetry just a little bit, well, gay. You wouldn't be one of those bi-polar intellectuals relying on a liberal arts degree "conferred" by MIT? Below the Mason-Dixon we call that, "owned".
Pages