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floydianpsyche
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why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Hi All,

My system consists of
1. NAD T515 CDPlayer
2. Rega P3-24 TT
3. NAD PP3 Phono stage
4. NAD C352 amp
5. Monitor Audio RS6 speakers
6. Audio quest cables
7. Treated room with bass traps and HF absorbers

Why is that Jazz and classical (especially solo and chamber music) sounds great...but big orchestra or rock/metal sucks in my system. What can I do not enjoy rock music too... your help would be greatly appreciated.

Drtrey3
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Hey pal, I read the reviews of the speaker and they said it had good bass. I wonder if the speakers are placed in a spot that gives you a bass suckout. Or are the basstraps too good?

Wait for people that know more than me for the good advice, but that is where I would start.

Trey

Buddha
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

I would start with making sure your speakers are wired in proper phase.

Having any connection reversed can make for sensation of adequate air and imaging on non-demanding material, but could make larger scale pieces or rock music sound less than optimal.

Taking some time and going through the Stereophile Test Discs may be very helpful, as well, and can help identify what your system is doing and not doing.

Also, do you notice this deficiency on both CD and LP, or just one or the other?

floydianpsyche
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

I have tried my system in three different rooms now...with and without different levels of treatment...still the same...and it is not the bass...bass is good... if I play Sade it is amazing...but if I play say Tool, GNR, Jeff Buckley it is not that great...

floydianpsyche
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Budda:Speaker wiring is fine, I have checked. It is the same with both CD and LP.

I have had this system for three years now, I have set it up in different rooms.. same all the time...

Buddha
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Can you describe what you notice?

If it is the same from CD to LP, then I'd hesitate to blame the turntable or CD player.

Any audio buddies you could do an amp or preamp swap with for a day or two and see if the problem goes away?

jackfish
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

It could be inadequate sound engineering on some of your CDs.

Ariel Bitran
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?


Quote:
It could be inadequate sound engineering on some of your CDs.

this was my first suspicion. G&R, Tool, and Jeff Buckley are all notoriously overcompressed.

but... you said this for both big orchestral works and rock/metal, which may make the previous point moot, unless you have some whacked-out masters of Mahler.

floydianpsyche
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Ariel: I do suspect the recording of the big orchestral works I have.

Could you guys recommend some nicely recorded rock, metal and big orchestral work albums...so that I could check how they sound. and also let me know what it means when we say overly compressed? How can I listen and find out if the recording is overly compressed?

JohnMichael
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

I own the Monitor Audio RS6's and in my system and room they do well with rock, classical and jazz. Godsmack, Disturbed and System Of A Down to name a few all sound great. I am using the Marantz SA 8001 as source and the Krell S300-i to drive the speakers. I would follow the other's advice with speaker placement to make sure you are not having bass cancelation.

Ariel Bitran
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

here's the main gist in regards to overcompressed records: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

I agree that this may not necessarily be the problem with your system. Regardless, its good to know about and be able to recognize.

good rock recordings:
The Police: Zenyatta Mondatta - this record has awesome dynamics and space

per my cubicle mate and assistant editor Stephen Mejias, the TOOL record 'Lateralus' is actually supposed to sound very dynamic and rich so i may be mistaken in my statement before.

G&R records are definitely overcompressed.

Some more good sounding rock:
- My Morning Jacket "It Still Moves"
- Pink Floyd
- Yes

I wish i could help you more in this regards. Most of my favorite rock records are actually squashed to the max (RHCP, Mars Volta, G&R)

Just try out some classic rock (Zeppelin, Allmans) and see if you here a difference in terms of dynamics and space.

commsysman
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

You definitely have great speakers there, and a pretty good if not quite excellent amplifier. Those are not where the problem lies.

Your CD player is not the best, and that could be a problem, and the NAD phono preamp isn't all that hot either. If you could get your hands on a better CD player for a day and try it in your system, that would be a worthwhile test.

One thing I would also try, however, is upgrading interconnect cables if applicable. I have found that the Audioquest Diamondback cables SOMETIMES make a big difference compared to some of the conventional coaxial cables between the player and Amp(the advantage of this cable is that it has the shield grounded at one end only, eliminating various currents in the shield that can otherwise flow between components and cause signal degradation).

It is difficult to speak to the quality of the specific recordings you are listening to. You really need to be sure that they DO sound good on another system before expecting them to sound good on yours.

floydianpsyche
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Ok Ariel and Commsysman...I will check out your suggestions and get back in some time...thanks

jackfish
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

You could try the Emotiva ERC-1 CD player in your chain and return it within 30-days for a full purchase price refund if you don't like it. A real overachiever, does wonderfully with HDCDs, and on sale right now for $369 delivered.

http://emotiva.com/erc1.shtm

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-players/703-emotiva-erc-1-cd-player.html

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-audio-sources/cd-players/emotiva-erc-1-cd-player.html

You could try replacing your phono stage with a Bellari VP130 for $240 delivered. This is an outstanding value.

http://www.aiconsol.com/vp130b.html

http://blog.stereophile.com/stephenmejias/a_change_of_plans/

floydianpsyche
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Re: why rock/metal music sucks in my system?

Jackfish, I have moved to India now...thanks for the suggestions though. I did have the Bellari for some time with me...it was sweet,but not to my expectations... I did not bring it to India as buying new tubes in India would be difficult. I also had the audio research PH3. It was really good...nearing my expectation...but the gain of 58db was too high for my Rega Elys cartridge...so I gave it away . But from what you all are suggesting...I should check the following in order 1) CDP ,2) Phono stage 3)Amp. I will have to take some time to check these out

bikepedlar1
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I have the RS 6's also, mated

I have the RS 6's also, mated to a Creek 5350 SE for my small room system. I also use an NAD universal player (no tt). I can say the sound is very balanced with almost all music. I KNOW that the new GNR cd "Chinese Democracy" is so compressed it is unlistenable to me at any volume as are most, not all, new rock CDs tend to be. I get the same results using a Rega Saturn, NAD M3, and PSB Platinum T8's in the Big Boy's Room. So, I think your system is fine. As someone earlier suggested try My Morning Jacket and I would add Joe Bonamassa, Led Zeppelin-Mothership, and Lucinda William's last couple of cds, all are not rockers but when she does look out!

floydianpsyche
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thanks for your reply. but I

thanks for your reply. but I do remember listening to stuff like GNR during my college (10 yrs ago) days at some shops around the city which had a huge impact on me..at that time I did not own a hifi. May be my tastes are more refined now... :)

bikepedlar1
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Don't get me wrong

I should have stated my point a little better. I think the first GNR cd ranks very highly as a first release in all of rock history in my opinion. I still like it. My point was not so much the band/s but the compression of most rock music recorded today. To make rock sound exciting on Ipods studios run up the recorded volume to 11. So when you play it on your system or my system you have no dynamic headroom left for your system to bang it's head against. Pardon the pun. As you say 10 years ago...well the problem wasn't as prevelent as it is now. I don't have it but I'd be willing to bet if you had both cd's by GNR their first cd would blow Chinese Democracy away on YOUR system or mine as far as sound quality. Maybe it is something mechanical with your audio chain but bear in mind the sound quality of a lot new rock cd's are made for Ipods or the like. Good luck on your quest!

p.s. Let me add to well recorded rock, Kings Of Leon's last 2 releases also.

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