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commsysman
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

"Balanced is the way to go"...I hope that is going to become a strong element in Stereophile's future editorial policy...lol.
Thanks for weighing in with your take on that, John.

commsysman
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Stinking Unbalanced Connections

Like I said before; sure, you CAN get the good sound from unbalanced IF you get the EXPENSIVE power conditioner, AND the EXPENSIVE cables, AND keep the cables short, and experiment with the cables till you are blue in the face.

Or, you can go balanced, and you don't NEED to spend a single penny on stinking power conditioners or stinking expensive cables or worry about cable lengths.

But since you have already invested your money, blood, sweat, and tears in making the inferior system work out for you...hell, you may as well stick with it; the long, difficult expensive road still got you there, huh???

I made it too, but when I look back down that bumpy road, I wish I had taken the smooth road I am on now; balanced.

Like JA said above, it's just a very difficult job to get rid of most of the ground-induced noise with an unbalanced connection, and its a non-issue with balanced because there is virtually NONE to begin with.

If a system is free of the noise to start with, you don't NEED multiple expensive "fixes" to sort out the problem and clean up the sound.

gkc
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Re: Stinking Unbalanced Connections

Hi, Commsysman,
Actually, I think I saved a lot money going unbalanced, in spite of the $1500 outlay for the line balancer. I still have the original cables I bought in 1998 (Audioquest Lapis x3) because the more expensive stuff I have tried since just didn't improve on the Lapis. The Adcom preamp has one balanced out and one balanced in, so I DID get a couple of Lapis interconnects with balanced terminations ($1200 wasted). There was no sonic benefit from switching back and forth, even though the Adcom may not be the best piece for this type of experiment. When I bought the expensive equipment for my other place, I auditioned everything -- BAT, VTL, AR, etc., and couldn't pin down any differences in the balanced/single-ended frame of reference, although there were subtle (insignificant) differences among the different "house sounds" that were slightly noticeable. I saved 3 grand buying the Sony 777ES instead of the SACD-1, since the only difference between those two was the balanced capability of the latter. In general, one is restricted to only the most expensive brands and models if one goes balanced all the way. Trouble? No more trouble than auditioning ANY components, balanced or single-ended. As I have noted elsewhere, the cost-no-object system has been a serious disappointment compared to my budget system here in the apartment. I regard it as a once-in-a-lifetime fling that didn't work out, even though I WILL replace the Dynaudios I sold later, and keep all the expensive electronics in THAT system. If I went balanced in my cheapo system, I would have to trash my Musical Fidelity electronics and spend at LEAST 5 grand for a new CD player, not to mention a phono stage in the 3-5 grand range. Starting out with all-balanced electronics would have added around 10 grand to my system, the way I roughly figure. And I just haven't heard anything that makes that kind of additional expediture worth it. I can buy another 2000 shares of Bema Gold for that kind of money and watch it double over the next year or so, instead of sitting around straining my ears for some slight improvement in sound -- an improvement, if heard, that will be quickly obliterated by the next marginally-recorded CD, SACD, or LP I spin. And, as I said elsewhere, I absolutely refuse to let 3,000 discs containing music I love sit idly while I listen to 20 "audiophile quality" recordings. Still, thanks for all the information. I respect your knowledge tremendously, but I ultimately have to just go with my ears. Cheers and happy tunes! Clifton

gkc
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

DUP,
I measured the interconnects with a yardstick and the speaker cable with a meter-stick, for crissakes...they're ALL made by Audioquest. Feets? They be for walkin'. I must say I am disappointed that perfectly good curses just don't work as well as they did in the old days. Humbug.

commsysman
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Re: Stinking Unbalanced Connections

At the time I bought my 777 (2000), I'm not even sure the SACD-1 was still available, but the 777 was what I got in any case. When I first hooked it up with the cables SONY supplied (which actually Looked decent), I was HORRIFIED at the sound quality; it really sounded bad. I thought it was broken!
After many curses, I decided to try various cables I had in the house, and it immediately became clear that the SONY cables were the worst-sounding out of 4 or 5 I tried (and these were generally nothing real special that I was trying), except for one Monster cable that was even worse.
The recommendation I got from the store where I bought it was to try the Audioquest Diamondback cables (which have two inner conductors and a shield terminated at one end only), and that did the trick; fabulous sound; have never found any that sound better. So that solved that problem.
My connection from my Audio Research preamp to my power amp was always problematical, however. I went through many unbalanced cables with varying results, and then finally went to balanced and experienced dramatic improvement in that case. No contest there; balanced was unquestionably far better-sounding.
Also, when I had a Theta Pro Basic II D/A converter, I was persuaded that the sound would be improved if I sent it back to Theta to be upgraded to balanced operation, and this was done and a major improvement resulted; here, however, a whole new balanced circuit board went in, and we may be talking about more changes than one that produced the improvement; software may have been upgraded too.

But like you say, you have to go with what works for you.
I know some people that have spent thousands of dollars buying cables to try and sort out their problems, though, largely because they have read reviews implicitly recommending this or that. The ultimate is the new Audioquest cable that puts a battery on the dielectric, for $3000 or so; great idea at a punitive price, I would say.
I could talk about some other situations with other systems, but let's not wear it out, lol.

Good listening.

CECE
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Re: Stinking Unbalanced Connections

What does the battery do? It has steadily increaed in voltage...36V last month, this month it's 72, Where do they get these batteries anyway? for these voltages, are they just putting more and more batteries tie wrapped on these cables, now really tell me, what does the 72V do the 36V didn't? I think it started at like 12V, 12V has been just fine for cars for decades, though they will go to 48V I think in the future to lower the wire sizes required (weight) in new cars with all the stuff they load in cars now. Higher voltage, less current, smaller wire. But back to AudioQuest's 72V, what does it do? If the magic dielectric that is riding at 72V, happens to short to the concuctor center wire, won't 72V smoke your amp and pre amp? Why risk it? Wires don't need no stinkin battery hooked up to it, do they? Did you know that anything above 30V is no longer considered low voltage, are these things UL listed? hmmmmmm? What happens when that battery starts to leak, like all kinds of crud, liek sometimes happens with batteries? Does it sound better or worse with crud buildup? I want teh 120V ones, plugged into the wall, no battery to go bad...hey guess what, that's called a line cord, so a line cord already has by design and use a bias voltage applied, but from the inside out. A "reverse action,bias application" Don't take my idea, I think I'll patent and sell many. Self biased wire, when used properly it's already internaly biased..pretty cool.

CECE
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

Why do they call it an "XLR" connector? I know, do you?

commsysman
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

Sure; everyone in the electronics field knows that (and those that don't can look it up on Wikipedia like you did...lol).

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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/


Quote:
Why do they call it an "XLR" connector? I know, do you?

Sure: Xylophones Like Repeatednotes; Xtra Long Rogering; Xenophobia Loses Relationshsips. What's your point, DUP?

John Atkinson
XtereophiLe EditoR

gkc
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

Very good. This makes my day. The "long rogering" may be optimistic...but who isn't? X-actos Lacerate Ringworms.

A lusty young lass, Miss Ransom,
Was rogered 3 times in a hansom.
When she cried out for more,
A voice from the floor
Said, "My name is Simpson, not Samson."

Happy tunes, Clifton

JoeE SP9
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

You still haven't explained why slew rate is so important. Before you start asking questions trying to show off how little you really know answer some of the questions that have been posed to you. While we are at it tell me why FET transistors are better than bi-polar. See if you can find the answers to these questions in Wikipedia or any where else.

I don't understand why you lurk here when you believe nothing that Stereophile or its readers believe. Please do not address any more stupid questions or comments to me. I have enough intolerance and stupidity to deal with in the real world. If I have learned one thing in 58 years of life it is "I don't know everything". You could do well to take those words to heart. I have placed you on my ignore list. I have better things to do than waste time with someone who knows everything.

gkc
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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

Xerxes Lubed Rhoda (sorry, but JA has inspired me and there's no stopping). Clifton

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Re: Who's more credible? Pro Sound people, or "audiophiles"? w/

I would like to add something to this mix also. In my very few years in this hobby (5 years, from 18 to 23) i got rid of the first part of coloration which is in a box. The second most important thing to me BEFORE ANY cable is the room acoustics. Too many audiophiles and friends try to fix problems with 1000$ silver cable, spikes and tube dampers. I personally heard differences between the Furutech CD Demagnetizer, Tube Dampers etc... BUT the ROOM and the speaker are the most important aspects and mostly overlooked.

-Florian

PS: I ran balanced and unbalanced and to be honest i prefer the unbalanced BUT this has nothing to do with the cable. Its how the electronics use this balanced technology and if they are properbly designed for it.

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