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July 26, 2008 - 7:36pm
#1
This is where it's all going......?
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Yep, sadly a lot of it is going that way.
http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=44307&an=0&page=0#Post44307
No, Dup. This is not "where it's all going." This is where some of it is going. There is a difference between "all" and some, always.
I have never heard of "Audio Outpost." Has anyone else? I just received my latest catalog from Chad Kassem at "Acoustic Sounds." It is stuffed with new analog (and SACD) iterations of the old masters, from Muddy Waters, through Wes Mongomery, to Shostakovich. With new phono preamps (ahem...which are, by definition, 2-channel) and new turntables, with a veritable feast of new cartridges, tone arms, and 13-inch circles that spin.
Real music lives on. We who enjoy it, apparently, are in the silent majority. But we can still afford to write a check, if the sound is right...
Somehow, I believe that, for every music lover, there is a dealer who can deliver the goods.
No, Dup. This is NOT where it's all going. However. From what I know of you, from what you write, 4, 5,6,8 channels...they are just MADE for you. More Van Alstine, more Legacy boxes in sundry corners and at the lateral walls, more $9.95 cables, more $29.95 AC plugs...more, more, more. This is YOU, Dup, go for it!!!! Think of the decibels!
The rest of us? We'll just take 'er as she goes. I WILL be ordering some ear candy from Mr. Kassem, however. Audio Outpost can remain at the frontier.
Once again, you show your inexperience, un informed self to be well, uninformed. I have heard and dealt with Audio Outlet in Mt. Kisco. Matta' o' fact I think I got my Audio Alchemy Zoran Ghost chip for the Audio Alchemy Video engine thing they sold years ago. The ghost eliminator really worked, it was also invented by Philips, there is a ghost reference signal sent on one of teh horiz lines of video, you would watch the signal clear up, even cable had multipath issues on ANALOG , now with HDTV it's all moot. Which is why Philips abandoned it, they sold a module themselves un Magnavox name. The audio Alchemy was also good for video switching. What happens in Mt. Kisco, happens elsewhere. Mr. Lowry needs to see the world as it is, not as he pretends it is. I just got my Acoustic Sounds catalog also......Where is all teh SACD, way too many useless vinyl. But he also has all that old vinyl NEW sealed he picked up from the estate, pretty cool. Best thing about why I deal with Acoustic Sounds, and get an LP or 2 from him, and dozens of SACD, when he has what I want, is he ruins Blue Heaven Studio, an incredible operation, supporting BLUES and all teh old timers originals. Music Direct gets a Plum Card, while Chad does something really significant and worthwile, that studio he built is slick, Acoustic Sounds needs to be on tv, not MD. MD didn't do a new record lable, as teh AMEX ad says, he bought the name and rights to teh defunct Mobile Fidelity, which had some inferiror recordings anyway, all hype. Checkout some of teh stuff that came out of Blue Heaven Studios, that he actually RECORDED. Jimmy D. Lane, is incredible!!! He has a unique thing going at Acoustic Sounds...and does make a nice catalog, he is doing a good job, but no matter what vinyl is obsolete, it's a dead media. No matter what MF thinks or spends on it.....or thinks he hears on warped vinyl. DSD didn't take off like it should, but it's only teh start of the next geneartion of real hi fidelity recording. The science in DSD only leads to even better. Vinyl reached it's obsolete status teh day teh CD was introduced, as it did open teh world of digital recording to the masses, it only gets better and better. Like the compact cassette took open reel-reel off the screen for consumer recording at home. Even pro stuidos rarley use tape it's DIGITAL babye, . Open reel reel they use as a novelty, for some advertising ploy. Digital is much more functional, versitile, and just better. No noise, etc. Wake up. GM is still making fancy pictures of cars, does that make it viable, GM is toast and Ford is following, no matter how many fancy pages they put out. So is vinyl....accept it. Eveytime I get a WARPED $30 LP, it proves it....
you probably refused to accept touch tone when you kept insisting you wanted to keep rotary dial phones, right? Why go with improved stuff when you can keep years behing the curve of things. If all those LP's where priced where they ought to be, not $30 vinyl could sell even more. But since vinyl is a big petro based product it probably ain't gonna happen, and teh marketing of teh obsolete media, wants to keep insisting on it's high priced theme, it is doing itslef in. Remeber with each listen it is wearing out, SACD/DVD-A, CD ain't got that issue, so keep turning the rotary dial of music media. I've gots lots of vinyl, but don't add to it much lately, it's very bad, to play a $30 piece of plastic that looks like a roller coaster ride. and this is a new current product, come on, I thought they solved these issues back in teh DynaFlex years, but they still put out junk, no matter what place is pressing it, as they toot their own horn (too toot), claiming to be such high quality, blah blah blah...there is more hyped BS than actually doing it right. Since they do so much less volume, you would think they could pay attention to teh little things, like making a FLAT record!!!
DUP, you are a world class ass. Even on the EXTREMELY rare occasions that I'm agreeing with you I still am the being insulted. I too lament the closing of specialist dealers and the loss of the ability to walk into a retail establishment and have an intelligent conversation about audio and maybe do some business too.
I think a more accurate subject title would be "This is where it all WENT!" Once again another business realizing way too late that the model has changed. Change with it or die.
I'm getting tired of hearing the high end community complain. Seems it's always the fault of the Ipod and the younger generation. Thomas Conrad devotes half a page as a disconnected intro to his "how I spent my vacation" piece in the current Sphile. GIVE ME A BREAK!
RG
Rigbran, I question whether there is a specifically definable "high end community" at all. Of course, the high-end magazines comprise sort a community. Remember, they goaded, wheedled, begged, pleaded, flogged, berated, and cajoled many manufacturers that were satisfied with mediocrity (as long as it produced a profitable bottom line), for 20 years, into bringing the state of the art closer to the live audio experience. Much closer.
In my view, "the high end community" is made up of a very diverse bunch (economically diverse, as well as diverse in musical tastes) who simply want better sound for the dollar. What does "better" mean? Closer to being there, wherever "there" exists -- a time, a place, a seat, or standing room only, or perhaps in the imagination. I am not so sure the "high end community" exists, outside of magazine editorials and rants on the internet.
When businesses fail, they have to change or remain defunct. Good businesses adjust. Of course, Home Theatre and multi-channel sound are part of the ongoing adjustments. But the best businesses do both. I still know several brick-and-mortar businesses that do both approaches very well. And they are still in business.
Life is change. But the quest for better sound will never abort, for music lovers.
Hmmm. Let me see. "Improved stuff." Great. I can really get a handle on that. I mean, it is so precise.
LP's can't survive, since they comprise "...a big petro based product." How big? I am sure the LP manufacturers use more "petro" than you do in wiring your sound machine. Sure, Dup. Vinyl users are responsible for the rising cost of oil. I mean, all those people beating down the doors of vinyl dealers to stock their shelves before peak oil. Give us the numbers, O Great Dup(e). Just how much demand does the LP industry contribute to the overall national demand for crude? Yeah. That's what I thought. Give us more economic Dupology. We are all eager to drink at the fountain of knowledge, wit, style, and macro-economic foresight. Speak, O prophet! We salivate in anticipation.
Actually, I kind of like push-button telephones.
If your vinyl is warped, send it back for a refund. Duh.
I can still honestly state that I have had more CD's (and SACD's) go sour than I have LP's -- and that's over a 40+ year time period. And the CD's didn't even come into the game until 15 of those years had elapsed. That's right. I have tossed a good 100 CD's for their inability to function, since (roughly) 1985, and I have NEVER had to toss an LP for wearing out. Of course, I take good care of them.
Chop logic, moronic prose, and blatant stupidity. Dup, once again, you do yourself proud.
Great post, Clifton.
I take a sort of Steinbeck-ian approach to defining the high end:
If you ain't read Grapes of Wrath, the just picture Henry Fonda...
"Whenever they's a hope that things can sound better, I'll be there. Whenever they's someone trying to capture the sound of live music, I'll be there... I'll be in the room when guys yell about greater enjoyment - I'll be there when audiophiles laugh, digging a bass line an' they know Miles is about to play. An' when our kids dig the stuff we play an' they listen to the systems in the houses they build - why, I'll be there."
Never ahd a Cd not play, I have thousands, you have defective players dude...didn't say vinyl caused teh price of oil to rise, your comprehension is poor. I said they use oil based vinyl, so I'm sure teh raw material must be goin gup up up. Which is why they cost so much and give so little? All these small pressing plants specializing in high quality vinyl, don't seem to live up to their advertising. All teh expesnive high end brands now only hang in because they get support from owners with mass market volume stuff. Marantz, Denon, Mark Lvinson all owned by giant corps who also sell volume products. Just like teh car indsutry, VW keeps Buggati, Lamborghini, Bentley, super Audi R8 etc going based on the volume vehicles they ship to keep the cash flwoing. But then how does Porsche who sells less than them is teh MOST profitable car company in the world, and now controls VW, keepin' it in the family, Yes Porsche is the most profitable car company, not TOYota who just advertises better, like Sony But I think Porsche gets benefits from volume sales at VW which is why they needed to save it from takeover by outsiders. What high end company doesn't make a multi channel thing to try and sell to home theatre volume sales. Philips bails on stuff when it don't well millions of units worldwide, they create the next big thing, license it, sell, when it begins to slack off, they bail, if not for volume sales, no comapny gets the money flow to survive. If vinyl is ever which I doubt come back mainstream, it needs to get priced normally and not sell junk warped stuff. When they where $3 you would buy another one, at $30 clip, it stinks.
Dup, the lowest quality CD player I own is better than the best you can dredge up. Some CD's deteriorate over time -- you just haven't been around long enough to experience this phenomenon. Nobody seems to know why, but theories abound. I am not the only music lover who has experienced it.
Repeat, if your LP is warped, exchange it or get a refund. End of story.
The cost component of the raw petroleum product in LP's themselves is miniscule. It is inelastic. In other words, if the cost of petroleum doubles, the cost of the LP appreciates in a much smaller relative increment. After all, LP's were $20-$50 five years ago, when crude oil was much less than half of what it is today. The big costs in LP production are human-related. Producers, recording technicians, legal costs, the process of obtaining production rights to the original masters, advertising, distribution, and marginal storage (inventory demands). It is true that high petroleum costs add a great deal to shipping and other distribution costs, but that is true of ANYTHING that gets flown, railed, or trucked.
Once again, you display your ignorance of (and inability to deal with) the facts.
Funny, but if you just pay more for a Cd player, that doesn't work, you might be the one who is dopey? I haven't been around long enough...hahahaha, I was getting CD's the day they appeared in early 80's, and had the first Philips top loader in the U.S. from the company store, heavily discounted. At the time PolyGram being owned by Philips we got CD's for $4.50 each when they where selling retail for $18. + Yeah, I ain't been around long enough, Open up your pricey skipping player Parts Express has Philips VAM1202 1201 optical drives optic on'y $19.99 !!! Or teh entire assy for $29...used in many multi thousand dollar players, even in my Philips $300 unitss....educated buyers that know what is in side understand the stuff. I had an older Philips changer, started to ship...got me a new laser assy, put it in, good as new, probably teh grease on teh tiny gears where getting old, not as slippery as teh new one, that was a whole $20 repair, when ya know stuff ya get stuff done. Service manuals to show you the hidden clips etc. Same VAM1201 CM12.1 used all over only a few makers of aassys, Sony, Pioneer, Philips.... Wonder what they put in that $27K Zander with obsolete chips etc...probably the $29 assy, well that's a bit short of $27K ain't it...It's your player, not teh CD's, wanna bet? I have lotsa CD's ain't got any that skip, only once on the bad optical unit, repalced it all better. What a dope I am. Ain't got any CD issues, no deterirorating, you have a BAD CD player....buy a good player not an expensive one.
Dup, who said I paid more? The bad CD's played well enough when they were new. They just deteriorated over time.
Right. What a dope. I have over 2500 CD's that play just fine. I also have more than 3000 LP's. They play better. I wouldn't do without either collection. The fact of the matter remains -- I have had more CD failures (given the large numbers involved, not a very high percentage of failures, but a failure is a failure, considering the fact that I have NEVER had an LP fail on me).
Of course, I was smart enough to take the warped LP's back for exchange or refund. What's your excuse, moron?
Doesn't that constitute a failure?
No, Alex. The failure comes when you keep playing the warped platter, expecting it, somehow, to be less offensive during the next listening session. Both insanity and stupidity have been defined as repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.
I have a few mildly warped LP's (that is, you can see the the rise and fall of the tonearm, but you can't hear anything amiss). About two, as best as I can recall. It takes me about two to three years to go through my entire collection, so I'll be sure to let you know if the number is higher. These were irreplaceable, one-of-a-kind recorded performances, purchased used (most likely at Rockaway, less than a mile from my apartment), so I kept them.
What I said is true to my experience. I have had fewer problems with LP's, over the years, than I have had with CD's. Far fewer. And they sound better, for the most part. There are CD's and SACD's in my collection that I wouldn't volunteer to live without. But there are more LP's in the same category. The LP's are, on balance, more reliable and sound better. I am sorry if that doesn't square with your experience.
Very good, Buddha. Joad had it figured out, into the inscrutable beyond. But you forgot his final words.
"How am I gonna get all these boxes into my jalopy, and what's a 'warranty card'?"
Clifton, I also thought doing things over fell into the category of proving a hypothesis. If I develop a hypothesis, perform my task and generate proof/conclusion, then I should at least perform it several more times to ensure it's proof is right. Damn, we're all DAFT I tell you, daft!!!!!
I agree, I have had MORE CD failures (in general) than I have had with LP's. It's probably because I handle my CD's like frisbee's and my LP's like fine china
I also have just about as many LP's as I do CD's and I can promise you that if I had taken care of my LP's like I was supposed to, they would ALL still be mint. I am my worst enemy. Not the vinyl!
Just my paulty 2 cents..
Crescendo, your experience matches mine. And I (in spite of my being a bachelor slob) fuss over both my CD's and my LP's. So your apparent carelessness with the CD's is irrelevant, in my experience. The ones that are gonna go bad will eventually go bad, no matter how well or ill you treat them. I talked to Robert Harley about this, as he had had similar experiences, but all he could do was guess about various kinds of surface deterioration, over time, on the CD's.
Unfortunately, I do not have the patience for evaluating hypotheses -- that is why I was an English Major. You just bullshit your way through the uncertainties and enjoy the poetry (or, in this case, the music).
Happy tunes.
I hear you. Nothing wrong with being a bachelor!
Hey, maybe I can tell my wife ALL of my CD's are "bound to fail" and I can run out and get a whole bunch of re-mastered LP's? Yaaaaa, I wish!!!!
Nothing wrong with an english major! You folks tend to be more articulate than most and can smooze the gals with your humanity and prose and such. Slobs like me just show up looking for music and beer. Oh we smooze, we just have no savoirfaire!!!