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cannon_dt
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What next for an upgrade?

Hello to all ye experts !

Here goes my story - the hunt for the perfect upgrade.

My set up : Marantz CD 7300 cdp, Marantz PM 7200 amp and Jamo E855. Also I have not invested in any cables or interconnects (I am using probably the lowest grade cables and I have not done biwiring).

My problem : Fatigue , some how I tire out with my set up. Its not a particular sound problem (though I feel the mid range is not good with the Jamos) but it is more related to fatigue I guess, I tire out after an hour or two and I feel something is wrong.

My research thus far : The following is something I did that I think is an acid test in order to determine who is my weakest link (speaker/amp, cables apart of course)

I got my friend's NAD C372, hooked it up to my CD7300 and Jamos in order to see if my amp has an issue. The NAD definitely rocks - the sound is more natural and the bass is tight. Somehow the marantz sounded more coloured to me.

Then I took my Marantz PM 7200, hooked it up to my friends CD 7200 and Dynaudio Audience 52. So some configuration except that now I am seeing if there is a problem with my speakers. And man, did the Dyns rock, they sound fantabulous !!!

So in effect, I think my first upgrade should be the NAD - it sounds lovely, less tiring, less "shrilly" (I think the maranzt overdoes the high/low freq making it tiresome, IMHO!). And this NAD can drive anyone, they are bloody powerful. Right?

Now for your expert advice : What should I do? I really think the NAD is my next logical step. But then I hear that the Dyns require something much more powerful than the C372. Is that true? I am thoroughly confused and I turn to all you folks for your opinion/advice.

KBK
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

From what we're getting here...It doesn't matter what you hook up to the Jamo speakers, they will continue to cause fatigue. Go for the speakers first. Give yourself a break. Start enjoying as soon as possible. We'll play the armchair psychologist, who's general purpose is to tell the person in the chair..that which they already know. They just need to hear it. So go for the speakers first. I'm sure your existing amp would work fine, in the meantime.

As for CD players, clocking is CRITICAL to musical enjoyment. Buying new CD players can be expensive.

Fixing the clocks in them can be cheaper. And far more rewarding., ie, an increase in fidelity instead of side shift. (I'd say lateral, but we don't want different colored 'more of the same', confused with the generally intelligent term of 'lateral shifting') A polite way of saying 'same shit-different box'.

Upgradding a clock on a given CD player can cost no more than $200. Look into it. It creates far better music than the standard tactic of dumping the old CD player and then spending long green for something that is likely to remain similar to what you have. Conversely, find a CD player that is clock upgradeable by the modifiers of the world, and buy that unit. Do a search on DIYAudio.com for clock modules that are available from the different audio sites. "Parts connexion" has a few different brands of clocks available.

Seriously. New clock. It'll save yer audio life, dude.

MUDSHARK
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

I agree that speakers are the most important. Your electronics appears to be good. Go after speakers first as they will do the most to improve your enjoyment of music (as well as being the most fun to audition). Often times listening fatigue is caused by extended listening to frequencies you ear is unaccustomed to during normal life. Different people react differently so what wears well to your ears may make mine bleed and vise versa (Klipsch to me, for instance).

ethanwiner
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Re: What next for an upgrade?


Quote:
My problem : Fatigue ... determine who is my weakest link ... What should I do?


If you don't have any acoustic treatment, and especially absorption at the first reflection points, that is your weakest link for sure.

--Ethan

cannon_dt
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

Ethan, I have not done any treatment whatso ever, any advice would help.
KBK and Mudshark, please suggest some speakers.

Also guys, can the PM 7200 drive the dyns, I hear the the Dyns require a very powerful amp. Also what do you guys think about the NAD C372.

My biggest concern is this, I want to do an upgrade that would last a long term. I dont want to upgrade my speakers again when I upgrade the amp, so I want to invest in someting that I would be happy with for the next 10 years

ethanwiner
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Re: What next for an upgrade?


Quote:
Ethan, I have not done any treatment whatso ever, any advice would help.


Acoustic treatment, and especially absorption at the side-wall and ceiling reflection points, will do more to reduce "fatigue" and improve the overall sound quality than anything else you can do. Better, this is a permanent improvement. You don't have to change the treatment if you swap out speakers or other gear later. Much more advice is on my company's web site:

www.realtraps.com

Or just call us or send an email if you don't want to be bothered learning a bunch of stuff and want us to advise you personally.

--Ethan

Monty
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

The Dynaudios are excellent speakers and don't need a high powered amp to sound good, but they do have the ability to take a lot of juice without sounding strained or compromised. I've used 52SE speakers with several amps, some as little as 15 watts and as much as 200, and they did fine in all situations. They don't even get close to being fatiguing and are forgiving of lesser electronics.
The NAD is also far from fatiguing as far as electronics go and more than enough power to drive the Dynaudios to ear splitting levels.

I suspect that either would provide more of what you are looking for, but would opt for the speakers first and see how they matched up with your current electronics. Those speakers really are some of the most system friendly that I have ever encountered and they sound stunningly good to boot.

cannon_dt
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

Ethan, I am in India, so I dont think I can use your services directly, any other advice ?
Monty, believe it or not, you are the first to tell me that the Dyns are forgiving. I thought they were quite fussy (I am not saying this by experience but by pure hearsay !!) about their amps etc. I listened to the 52s with my Marantz and they sounded fine. My only concern was that my Marantz heated up within minutes, this could also be due to the fact that I had Class A amplification on. Do you think this is a problem?
I also listened to the Dyn 122 and that was even better than the 52s. Bass was tighter and detail was beutiful, the 52s were already sounding gorgeous but the 122s were even better. Now I really think I should get one of these.
And keep the 372 for the next upgrade, what say you?

Elk
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Re: What next for an upgrade?


Quote:
My only concern was that my Marantz heated up within minutes, this could also be due to the fact that I had Class A amplification on. Do you think this is a problem?


This amp runs warm and will get very hot while running in class A. Perfectly normal. Just be sure to leave a lot of room around it so it can breathe.

ethanwiner
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Re: What next for an upgrade?


Quote:
Ethan, I am in India, so I dont think I can use your services directly, any other advice ?


Actually, we have a dealer in India, listed on our Prices page. But I'm not here to sell you stuff. All of the advice and articles and videos etc on our site apply whether you plan to buy from us, buy from someone else, or make your own DIY treatment. I also maintain a FAQ page on my personal web site with only DIY advice:

Acoustics FAQ


Quote:
Monty, believe it or not, you are the first to tell me that the Dyns are forgiving. I thought they were quite fussy


My main point would be that any competent speaker should not care which competent amplifier drives it. Yes, some "boutique" gear is fussy, but only because it's designed poorly. I think most comments about gear synergy are misguided. What matters most is having a good speaker connected to a decent amp having suitable output power.

--Ethan

cannon_dt
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Re: What next for an upgrade?

Ethan, I live in the same city as the distributor your site mentions. I will explore this further and thanks for all the reading material
Elk, thanks for your advice, so in your opinion my speakers go first right?

cyclebrain
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Re: What next for an upgrade?


Quote:

Actually, we have a dealer in India, listed on our Prices page. But I'm not here to sell you stuff. All of the advice and articles and videos etc on our site apply whether you plan to buy from us, buy from someone else, or make your own DIY treatment. I also maintain a FAQ page on my personal web site with only DIY advice:

Acoustics FAQ


Quote:
My main point would be that any competent speaker should not care which competent amplifier drives it. Yes, some "boutique" gear is fussy, but only because it's designed poorly. I think most comments about gear synergy are misguided. What matters most is having a good speaker connected to a decent amp having suitable output power.

--Ethan

Now you've gone and done it Ethan.
And yes, despite Ethan's room treatment bias, speaker/room interface is probably the major affect on sound quality. The solution to this problem is also probably the most complicated problem to solve correctly. All solutions are a series of trade offs. Still worth working on.

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