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January 28, 2015 - 11:15am
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Wharfedale Jade 3 or KEF LS50?
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Demo'd every bookshelf speaker I could find under $3500. I spent quite a bit of time listening to those Jade 3s side by side with what I ultimately bought which is the Revel Performa3 M105s. I liked the Jades but found them to be warm relative to the Revel's, Monitor Audio and PSB speakers I listened to in the same show room.
It certainly can't hurt to give them a listen, but I don't know if you are going to like them given your affinity to B&W. My gut tells me you would like the LS50s, the Revel's or even the B&W CM5s better than the Jade's.
Thanks for the insight, though I do like the B&W stand mounts I've owned actually I'm a huge Magnepan fan and my main home speakers are the 1.7's...no "i" upgrade yet. I believe that the Nautilus tweeter on both of my B&W's "may" be tipped up a bit as most other stand mounts I've brought in sound a tad rolled off in the treble. It's very possible that they're not rolled off at all and I may have simply gotten used to a speaker with more energy in the treble region yet "in my office" this has only added more air rather than sounding bright or strident.
I'll have to see if I can find a pair of Revel's locally and give them a listen. I've heard the B&W CM5's locally and they're very nice though a good bit smaller than either of the ones I'm using and probably more of a lateral move. I read a lot of nice things about the Revel's and I'd like to stay with stand-mounted speakers in my office. I've tried Maggies in here, but my office is too small to be able to pull them out far enough from the back wall and let them breath.
The latest Stereophile gave the Jade 3's a glowing review and a friend of mine has the Jade 1's and loves them though I'd want one that's closer to full range if possible. The last speakers I tried were the NHT Classic Threes and I loved the tight, tuneful bass and clean midrange yet they once again sounded a bit dull in the treble though from what I've seen they measure pretty darn flat. This is when I started thinking that possibly my B&W's are tipped up in that region yet not so much as to sound bright. The Classic Threes had too much going for them to send back so I'm using them in a bedroom system and have come to respect the possible benefits of a sealed design.
Thanks again for your time.
If you consider B&W speakers tipped up. Most (though not all) companies who's sound is rolled off on top are seem to be accounting for a crappy tweeter by damping the top end a little. B&W, while I'm not a fan of Kevlar midranges whether B&W, Pioneer, or JM LAB, uses excellent tweeters. Companies that use excellent tweeters, B&W, Focal JM LAB, Triangle, etc. are sometimes described as tipped up. Compare the results to an actual cymbal or fiddle or female vocal, live in an open acoustic and I think you'll find these speakers are just more natural and NEUTRAL. Same goes for old Advents. I'm sure the others you mentioned are okay - but just so. The Nautilus tweeter is just fine, very good in fact - it's more likely the Kevlar midrange giving that "tipped up sound" by hardening the lower treble. If you want the natural tonal balance of the B&W with a genuine across the board improvement in detail and coherence, either look at older B&W's or Focal. Don't be afraid to "not spend enough" on the Focal's. The Chorus line up has ALWAYS been much better than the money might indicate. You could spend the difference on, you know, music. Or flowers for your significant other. Or ice cream. Or any number of things that bring people more happiness than Hi-Fi.
If you feel the CM5s are a lateral, I am not sure if you are going to feel the Revels, Dynaudio Excite X-14s, or quite a few other speakers in that $1500 range worth it. Incidentally, I probably agree with you.
If you have a dealer that sells the Acoustic Zen Adagio JR, it is a bit more at $3500 but it is one of the sweetest sounding speakers I have ever heard. If I had bought these, I wouldn't be writing this now because my wife would have killed me at this price point. I do feel they are worth every penny.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticzen2/junior.html
Here is a review of the Dynaudio Focus 160s. I was really impressed with these and agree that they are amazingly detailed, yet non-fatiguing.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-focus-160-loudspeaker
You might want to check out the Monitor Audio Gold's at $2200. I loved the way they sounded and it has a ribbon tweeter that gave it a touch of warmth that I thought was stunning. I personally thought they missed a bit of detail, but that may be because I was listening to them with the B&W PM-1s which I thought were overly detailed to the point where I found them fatiguing.
You should check out the PM-1s at $2800.
You should also listen to the Kef LS50s simply as a reference point and it is probably not a waste of time listening to the Revel's. As much as I love them though, I would not put them in the same class as the Acoustic Zens, Dynaudio Focus or the B&W PM-1s I mentioned above. I did pick them over the Monitor Audio's, but again, I might have been biased by the environment and you have an affinity for ribbon speakers.
Like I said, the Nautilus tweeter "sounds like it has more air and "may' be tipped up a tad more than other speakers I've tried in the same room. They've never sounded too bright nor harsh and only seem to add more air around the instruments or voices so I don't see it as a problem at all. Actually I much prefer it to a softer sounding treble as it sounds "to me" more like real instruments do. When you see that the speaker that "you think" are a bit rolled off in the treble measure flat it leads you to believe that the speakers you're accustomed too must be tipped up a bit. Even if the B&W's are raised a dB or two (and maybe they're not) in the treble they sound good to me and have never been fatiguing. I care a lot more about my speakers sounding like real musicians/vocalist than if they "measure" well/flat.
The reason I stated that they the Nautilus tweeter "may" be dialed up a bit is because the NHT Classic Threes measure basically flat down to 90Hz (from the graph I saw in Stereophile) yet sound just "a tad" dull in the treble when compared to either of the B&W's. That said, I actually preferred the tight, tuneful bass that the NHT provided with its sealed cabinets. This is what caught my interest with the Wharfedale Jade 3, the review states that the treble region of the Jade 3's is difficult to beat in a speaker under $10,000...I've never heard them so I don't know if this is true or not. I'd love to find a stand-mount speaker with the highs of the B&W's yet with the ability to go lower in the bass (wouldn't need my Velodyne DD-10 sub) without ever sounding bloated (I'd rather have less bass than loose, bloated bass) and thus far I like what I've heard in the bass region from some acoustic suspension/sealed box speakers.
My oldest son went to college on a music scholarship and I've heard him play acoustic guitar and bass in the same room with me for God only knows how many hours over the years. While in college they had several live performances and luckily I have a few very good recordings of him playing solo and it's often those recordings (along with albums I very familiar with) that I use when comparing speakers. Both pairs of my B&W's do a terrific job of making the acoustic guitar recording sound like what I'm used to hearing. I wouldn't put them on the same level with my Magnepan 1.7's but the Maggies can be very difficult to beat with that type of music.
Anyway, I saw the Jade 3's about a year ago and thought they looked sweet and now Stereophile gave them a wonderful review so I'm very interested in hearing myself. Now I've added the Revel Performa3 M105's and KEF LS50's to my short list of stand mount speakers to try. I certainly do appreciate the feedback and recommendations!