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LM2940
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??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

Do you leave the cleaning solution sit on the record for a little while before you vacuum it off? I'm using alchohol based solution and I usually allow it to sit for about 20 seconds to dissolve the crud. Does this damage the vinyl?

Windzilla
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

My understanding is that this is more complicated than it appears a the surface, there is alot more information when you get down to the nitty gritty of record cleaning and alchohol based solvents (unless its one of the old Shellac (sp?) 78's).

This will either anwser your question, make your head spin, or both.

its long so watch out.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-58986.html

cheers

mikeymad
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

I have been using the older VPI 16.5 cleaning machine for many years. I apply the fluid (VPI cleaner), and brush for a couple of turns and then bring on the vacuum wand around and vacuum for a turn or two.

So, The fluid is probably on the record for around 30 seconds or so, I have not noticed any degradation of the vinyl. I know that some don't believe in the cleaning machines, but I am a firm believer of buying LP's cheap and cleaning them to perfection.

mikeymad
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users


Quote:
This will either anwser your question, make your head spin, or both.

WOW !!!! ... Thanks...

CECE
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

I have heard a big difference between a cleaned LP and not cleaned, I also use the 16.5 It really does work. And it still has the standard AC line cord. Would a new line cord make it clean better....?

Yiangos
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

I agree with DUP here.No serious vinyl addict should be without some kind of a disc cleaning system.it makes all the difference in the world.

LM2940
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users


Quote:
I agree with DUP here.No serious vinyl addict should be without some kind of a disc cleaning system.it makes all the difference in the world.

I personally wouldn't even consider buying vinyl if it wasn't for my vacuum machine. It's amazing how it removes the years of grime that is on most used records. I've had some records that were extrememly filthy but after only one pass they shined like new!

Jeff Wong
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

This is also good reading:

http://www.musicangle.com/feat.php?id=54

An article for the truly anal retentive when it comes to record hygiene.

LM2940
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

Thanks for the link. That answered most of my questions. I think I'll stop letting the fluid sit. I don't like the word "leaching".

Jan Vigne
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

I use a Disc Doctor machine so I have to clean one side of the record then flip it over to vacuum that surface. I use a homemade cleaner which is merely distilled water and a surfactant. I've stopped using alchohol in my cleaning fluid all together. I find any amount of Isopropyl alchohol will sometimes leave a visible thumbprint on the vinyl. Depending on the type of alchohol and the concentration to the amount of water the effect might be minimized by a very weak solution. However, you should decide exactly what the alchohol is doing in the solution?

Most of the articles I read before purchasing the D.D. unit are very ambivalent about solutions containing alchohol. Most articles indicate the alchohol is used as a drying agent rather than a cleaning agent. This would appear to make the alchohol unnecessary if you are using a vacuum cleaning machine and proper cleaning procedures. Few articles actually mention the alchohol serving any cleaning function. No matter how its purpose is defined the type of alchohol, or drying agent, to be used is in dispute. Therefore, I do away with the alchohol completely.

I do have many records which were cleaned 20 years ago with the Keith Monks machine. The cleaning solution employed by the KM machine was distilled water and a 10% solution of (91%) Isopropyl alchohol. I can detect no significant audible damage to the discs after being cleaned with this solution. So, my intention of eliminating the alchohol is more a personal choice than a scientific evaluation. I cannot hear any difference between discs cleaned without alchohol and those cleaned with as long as a vacuum machine was the final step. That makes the alchohol a needless addition in my mind.

My solution, therefore, is simply distilled water (store bought with no additives) and a few drops of a surfactant. I use All-Free laundry detergent as the surfactant. It contains no dyes, perfumes or phosphates. When you pour this detergent it appears as a colorless liquid rather than a blue or green solution. A few drops (3-4) of this surfactant to a cup of distilled water makes a fine cleaner, as far as I am concerned.

With this solution the water does the cleaning and the surfactant acts merely to break the surface tension of the water. This holds the dirt and grime in suspension until it is vacuumed away. Lowering the water's surface tension also enables it to glide into the groove and be spread rather easily. The soap/surfactant does no real cleaning other than allowing the water to do its job more efficiently. It is the water which actually does the brunt of the work.

To this end I mix in small batches and use only what I'm going to need for the amount of records cleaned at one sitting. One thing I do admit to is keeping the water warm before it goes on the disc surface. Warm water always cleans better than cold water so I place the mixed solution in the microwave just long enough to get the solution warm. Not hot, but just warm. This then goes into a spray bottle which introduces the water to the vinyl's surface in a fine mist.

I use two cleaning brushes; one a VPI nylon brush that does most of the work when a disc is very contaminated (Salvation Army and used record shops, etc,). I also use the Disc Doctor's cleaning brush after the surface has received its initial scrub with the VPI brush. The Disc Doctor's web page discusses alternatives to the VPI brush but I have grown accustomed to using this brush as a highly effective cleaner. I've yet to wear out a pad from the Disc Doctor, but they are merely a microfiber cloth. When a replacement is needed I will probably just replace the pad with a microfiber of my liking.

As to the method employed in cleaning the discs, you will have to make an assessment at the time as to how important the disc might be. Discs that are likely to find their way into the rotation are cleaned and given a second rinse of only distilled water. LP

ohfourohnine
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

Jan, your description of your diy cleaning solution, your experience with it, and your arguments for avoiding alcahol based solutions have convinced me to give that approach a try. I've never had a problem using alcahol based cleaners, but you may have found a better (and cheaper) approach. Pity Mike Fremer didn't have a sample of your stuff when he did his comprehensive review of cleaning solutions a few months ago. Thanks.

prudentman
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Re: ??? for Vacuum Cleaning Machine Users

Hey Cheapskate...you get around. I saw your post on the Fremer record cleaning article. Is there a link you can post or tell me where I can find it? Thanks

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