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2TwinDad2
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Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Greetings,

I am going to purchase a turntable within the next 2 weeks and want advice. I like the Rega P7. However, I need to make sure that my kids running and dancing won't make needle skip. I want specifis recommendations as to which TT in the P7 price range or slightly higher price has great anti-vibration built into the design.

Also - my wife will NOT let me wall mount TT. This means I need an Equipment Rack recommendation that would also have an isolation platform for TT on top shelf as a further vibration deterrent.

My shopping will commence as soon as I am able to co-ordinate audition times with another forum member who is helping me pick out entire new system. Family illness slowed down my plans immensly - all is well now.

My 48th Birthday is coming up quickly and this is a present from my wife - the entire $25K system or a little more if need be.

Thanks,

Eddie

dbowker
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

My solution is that my listening room is mostly off-limits to kids and pets, which I'm guessing is not an option.

One approach is getting one of those Billy Baggs equipment stands, but they are pricey. The big key is making sure the rig is absolutely level. After that make sure whatever it''s on is very solid, heavy and stable as well. Under the turntable you could use some Ceraball feet, or maybe something a bit more compliant to absorb some room shock. Bottom line is that a big jump near the 'table is going to cause problems. Don't overdo the counter weight though- bad for needle and records.

Their are some pretty fancy spring-loaded feet out there that give you a suspension system. I think a Rega would be compatible. I have not tried them however, so can't speak to what affect they'd have on your overall sound. Could be better, could be worse, since the Regas are not designed to be suspended.

Discs of Silence

IsoClear Feet

Oh- one other idea is that if it's on the first floor, and you have a basement below, AND it's not finished- you can get a reinforcing pole(s) and set them up directly below your stereo system. They're not very expensive and can be user installed. It's like a metal pipe with a jack attached, essentially. This pretty effectively grounds a good deal of vibrations out and down into the earth. I've only lived in one place where this worked out as an option, but it was great! Made a bouncy floor extremely solid and no more skipping needles.

Elk
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
Also - my wife will NOT let me wall mount TT.


Nuts. This would probably do it.

If her objection is something sticking out of the wall, perhaps mount it directly above a similar appearing rack so that it looks like another shelf.

I know that you have told us that you are looking for a different solution, but wall mounting is probably the best option.

tom collins
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

an electric fence around the TT. i guess she wouldn't go for that either?

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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

What kind of floor do you have?

First floor, second? What's under the floor?

The best answer will depend on a few more factors.

linden518
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Yeah, the wall shelf really would be ideal. See if you can fight your wife for it; maybe concede something to her, like a new Porsche (so fair a trade, right? A Porsche for a wall shelf.)

Your next option would be try to build an isolation platform for your TT. A lot of approaches here, from chunky maple blocks to slate or granite. At the very least, you need a quality component rack to deal with resonance. You can also try putting this Symposium platform underneath the TT; a lot of people like this product...

http://www.symposiumusa.com/ultra.html

If you're really gung ho, you can put the turntable in an adjacent room (if you have an adjacent room)...

2TwinDad2
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

My listening room is going to be the Family Room and my kids love music so I don't want to stifle them.

I am on the second floor and the room is 100% carpeted over thick foam padding on top of wooden floor (Oak? Maple?)

The wall that I envisioned installing a TT shelf is a firewall of plaster over cinder block and would be very structurally rigid and decoupled from the floor.

We plan on moving in 2-3 years and my wife thinks it would devalue the property if I start mounting shelving on the firewall. If it truly is the best option - and you all seem to agree - I will propose the idea again to her and promise to have a contractor repair wall prior to putting Co-op on Real Estate Market a few years from now.

Are there special shelfs designed solely for Turntable wall mounting? Or is this a Home Depot project?

Thanks for all the comments and links.

Eddie

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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

You can definitely make your own, but there are also some very nice shelves on the market that are designed specifically for turntables. Target and Quadraspire come to mind. The Quadraspire shelves look really nice also, which could be the extra little push your wife needs. They come in a variety of very attractive wood finishes, as well as clear and media-blasted glass.

Rega makes a clever wall bracket with three cups that correspond to the three feet on Rega turntables. You might inquire at your dealer and see if one could be ordered. They're reasonably priced, at $180, last I checked.

I'm glad you're sharing the music with your kids. It's important to keep the audiophile bloodlines strong.

dbowker
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

"I'm glad you're sharing the music with your kids. It's important to keep the audiophile bloodlines strong"

Agreed! Even though my stereo room is not a kid zone, it's just gated with a child gate so we get to listen to music together all the time. He's loved it since pretty much the days he was born.

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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

I found that the best way to protect the equipment from the kids is to teach them to properly use it. I did save the turntable for last, for when they were older. But at a young age they learned how to work everything else properly, and they enjoyed it, and I stopped freaking out. They are now big music fans...

bobedaone
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

I was allowed to be near and to operate the equipment at a young age, and here I am.

linden518
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
I was allowed to be near and to operate the equipment at a young age, and here I am.


That explains the Jurassic Park LP.

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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
I was allowed to be near and to operate the equipment at a young age, and here I am.

Yeah, being used for neuroscience experiments at the University of Michigan.

dbowker
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Your post reminded me of this picture taken last year. Before we moved this past Sept., my system was pretty much right in the open, but at the time was son was under a year and a little less mobile. Still, he loved my Magnum tuner in particular, as it has all the old school dials and gauges to play with. It also is built like tank and pretty hard to damage, so that was "his" stereo component that he could freely play with. He's older now (almost two) and still loves it.

Colin at the Magnum

In the next year or so I'd love to get him his own kiddie record player or something. I think it'll be quite a while before he's playing my Well Tempered turntable, which although reasonable rugged, the cartridge is definitely not!

smejias
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
I'm glad you're sharing the music with your kids. It's important to keep the audiophile bloodlines strong.

I agree!

I know absolutely nothing about what it takes to raise a child, but I have this idea that having music in the house adds to happiness. A few people in my life with young children of their own have been contemplating buying a turntable. Whenever I think about it, it just seems that allowing a child to share in music -- and especially allowing the child to witness the ritual and care inherent to vinyl appreciation -- has got to be good for something.

Anyway, right on! Dancing kids are happy kids.

bobedaone
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

awwwwww

Elk
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
But at a young age they learned how to work everything else properly, and they enjoyed it, and I stopped freaking out. They are now big music fans...


Way to go!

The specifically designed turntable shelfs look good and work well. The damage to the wall is minimal (similar to hanging a big picture) and can be easily repaired like any other drywall screw hole.

KBK
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Stephen: If this is deemed to be advertising in any way, please delete, thank you. I'm trying to inform of there being a decent solution, but the fit may not be perfect. Each situation is different.

Go to the Goo Systems website, and look up the Goo Systems 'Gooeys'.

They are a absolute, balls to the wall, world class 'fundamental first cycle absorber/transfer' device.

Place the gooeys beside each leg of your stand.

Place small footers or tiny platforms, about 1.5" square, on top of each gooey.

Then place the gooey/platform combination under each stand leg so that they are literally riding the entire weight of the loaded stand on the gooeys.

You will have an approximate 2Hz tuned absorbing suspension that damps on the first cycle of noise.

This is the equal of high end 'safe tables'. We use them in the labs to support 100th of a gram accuracy scales on a suspended wooden table surface right beside a 1 hp mixer that weight about 80lbs or so. The mixer can go through any level of rpm, which can vibrate the table quite badly. We even made a before/after video to show them doing their job.

We have no problems with the scale.

This is a 100% world class safe table replacement, if properly loaded to the right mass to tune the suspension down to the right point. It maintains the same frequency of 'spring' at the bottom end of it's range, no matter the load, it just becomes more effective when the mass is increased.

It is a Teo audio product, but at the time it came into being, Teo did not exist, so it was tossed into the Goo Systems arena.

It's tough for a video screen coatings company to market a hard core audiophile isolation device, especially one that is cheap AND goes against the conventional thinking, but there it is.

PS, it does not just isolate the given device with a 2hz frequency spring, but also absorbs energy above that, so it also brings about a case of lower mechanically borne noise in the above equipment that is upon it.

Because it is an absorber, and begins absorbing in the first cycle of energy in the given situation, it is heavily damping in the most fundamentally correct sense, and thus clears noise away in systems. It is about as good as it is possible to get to, when properly applied.

We're having one heck of time marketing the stuff, people seem to not believe the the whole idea and process, but it's not just a simple piece of foam. We simply don't talk about them, they are merely there, and do exactly as advertised. We just don't promote it, with super clear explanations of what the whole background and science is - it's too much information.

The factory's graphics designer has small kids who run around, and he's doing what I said here, with his older Target TT-5 stand for his Sota turntable and Symphonic pre-amp, etc.. It works well enough for him, with the problems his particular floor has. I told him to give it a shot,and it works. Some folks use them under their subwoofers and big TV stands to stop peak noise transmission into the apartment below, etc. Under the feet of their washers so they can wash clothes at 3-am, etc. Sometimes it works perfectly, if loaded correctly, sometimes not. The washers, etc, are the more difficult to tune. It requires slightly more gooeys, like two under a platform, under each high-spin washer foot. Then people won't be woken up by vibrating washing machines any more.

We've never actually promoted them at all before, so they're just sitting there, on the factory shelves for the past 2 years. Oh well.

KBK
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:

Quote:
But at a young age they learned how to work everything else properly, and they enjoyed it, and I stopped freaking out. They are now big music fans...


Way to go!

The specifically designed turntable shelfs look good and work well. The damage to the wall is minimal (similar to hanging a big picture) and can be easily repaired like any other drywall screw hole.

Wall shelves are a great Idea, and I don't really know any audiophile who was/is 'hardcore' who hasn't owned one. But, fundamentally, with respects of exactly how they get energy into the turntable, it turns out to be the exact wrong and quite uncomplimentary kind of noise. Floor mounted is mucho better, if properly placed.

dbowker
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

"Wall shelves are a great Idea, and I don't really know any audiophile who was/is 'hardcore' who hasn't owned one. But, fundamentally, with respects of exactly how they get energy into the turntable, it turns out to be the exact wrong and quite uncomplimentary kind of noise. Floor mounted is mucho better, if properly placed."

Maybe at a micro level, but for keeping footfalls and other macro vibrations that'll make your needle jump, you can't beat a good wall shelf. It's expensive if your TT is really heavy though. I haven't seen any VTI TNTs up on shelves!

KBK
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids


Quote:
"Wall shelves are a great Idea, and I don't really know any audiophile who was/is 'hardcore' who hasn't owned one. But, fundamentally, with respects of exactly how they get energy into the turntable, it turns out to be the exact wrong and quite uncomplimentary kind of noise. Floor mounted is mucho better, if properly placed."

Maybe at a micro level, but for keeping footfalls and other macro vibrations that'll make your needle jump, you can't beat a good wall shelf. It's expensive if your TT is really heavy though. I haven't seen any VTI TNTs up on shelves!

True enough. The Wall is a compromise, but it keeps the small folks off the turntable, and they won't bang their skulls up on it, if it is located high enough. Please anchor to the wall through the wall beams (studs), thank you....much safer and more stable. Tap (knuckles, etc) the wall to find the more stable points or beams to screw into. This may alter the position a bit but will result in better sonics.

Also, use a CD player, with the system up and working, with a bit of volume..and then find a low pressure node to put the TT wall bracket in/on. Check for wall vibration as well.

Everything counts, everything adds up.

2TwinDad2
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

First - thanks to Erik B, dbowker, BillB, selfdivider, Alexo,Stephen Mejias, Elk,KBK, and all those that responded prior to my second reply. This is response # 3.

dbowker - My wife, as a Mom, feels you should enlarge the photo of Colin at the Tuner and have it framed and displayed in your listening room. She loved the pic as did I.

There are no "studs" in the wall as it is plaster over cinder block and considered a firewall.

My wife said "No." Her reasoning is that I can purschase a decent system now with the money allocated for equipment and speakers. She believes that the TT will limit our options with the rest of the system from a financial standpoint.

Her suggestion is that we purchase the TT at Christmas after she receives her bonus check and to first TRY it on a high quality stand with an isolation platform.

I can wait. She is also correct in that $25K does not go very far nowadays when putting together a decent first system and I should focus on the CD/SACD player, Integrated Amp, and Speakers for now.

Liz is an Investment Banker and her "bonus" was more than my salary for the last 2 years combined.

My kids are twin 7 year old boys that study piano at a Conservatory for the last three years. They also know how to use the PC and play "slide" guitar. They LOVE music and are very careful about everything they touch or use.

When I was a kid my parents had this stereo console that looked like a piece of furniture and you would lift up the center wooden panel to expose the TT, tuner, and space for holding about 20 LP's. My parents were into the Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, Animals, The Who, Beatles, CSN&Y, and taught me how to use everything at 6 or 7 years old. My first 45 I remember purchasing was "409" by the Beach Boys.

When I was 9 a new family moved into our neighborhood and they had a real stereo system with separate components and hundreds of LP's. They invited me over for dinner and instead of eating at the Dining Room table like my family did - they ate in the Living Room - in front of the stereo.
That night they played the Allman Brothers Band Live At The Fillmore East LP and I was never the same again. Everyone ate in silence so as not to diminish the music. I was awestruck.

When I went home to tell my parents - they said "they sound like a bunch of hippies!" However, my Dad was cool and let me go over to the Ford's house a few nights a week to listen to all this great music on vinyl. Looking back it was one of the best times I had in my life and when a record was finished everyone would talk about the songs, the musicians, and then give a brief intro on what the next LP to be played was. THEY DID NOT OWN A TV!!!

So, I was 9 and I saw the vitality of music and now at 47 - soon to be 48 - I want to recapture that feeling and pass it on to my kids. I just have to wait until Christmas for the TT. I can do that.

Eddie

dbowker
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

"Liz is an Investment Banker and her "bonus" was more than my salary for the last 2 years combined."

Well, your wife sounds very reasonable, and if she's offering to help pay for a good turntable setup from her bonus, well, who can argue with that? When a significant other actually helps PAY for your system (like mine did as well) rather than just tolerate it, you have a true partner! Thanks also for her kinds words about the picture of my son at the tuner!

bifcake
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Eddie,

If you shop on the used market, 25k will get you pretty far. It will get you a near reference system if you shop wisely.

I also agree with your wife that you should concentrate on other things and leave the TT for later. I may be sounding like a broken record (pun intended), but I think that vinyl is a money pit. You will spend a mint on getting it setup just right. It's much easier and cheaper to concentrate on getting other things right first and after you've sunk your money on all the other things, you can start sinking it in vinyl. Personally, I would forgo the vinyl all together (in fact, I have), but if you're that emotionally attached to it, then save it for later and do it right.

Buddha
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Save the table for "later?"

Christmas is already too "later," let alone later than that!

Start looking at some suspended tables.

Linn may be a good choice, as would be Oracle or the Michell Gyrodec.

These tables can keep the beat while the kids are bopping, and still be way Hi Fi for when you are doing some 'private' listening.

A nicely tuned suspended turntable may be mui bueno.

And don't wait until Christmas! Buy now with a "no interest until 2009" plan!

bertdw
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

I once threw a party, and children were invited. They came running through the living room while a record played, and their mother chastised them, fearing the turntable would skip. It did not. Later the kids came running through the room again, and skipped my CD player. My turntable? A SOTA Jewel.

2TwinDad2
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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

AlexO.

I hate getting ripped off or the potential to be taken advantage of and a part of me would never feel comfortable buying pre-owned equipment. I know that Audigon is a well respected site - but that is just me. I am looking forward to purchasing a brand new system after extensive auditioning. I wish I had the moxy to take a chance and buy "used" gear - I don't. I want NEW with warranty and dealer customer service backing up the products.

Eddie

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Re: Turntable vs. Running/Dancing Kids

Buddah,

Thanks for mentioning the brands Oracle and Michell Gyrodec.

If I wait until Christmas/December for the TT I will have more disposable income in which to splurge on a TT. Sometimes it is worth the wait especially when more funds will be available. At that point I'll probably be looking for something different than the Rega P7 given the additional cash I'll be given.

We can let this post lapse until I'm ready to purchase several months from now.

I still would like equipment rack recommendations though.

Thanks Everyone!!

Eddie

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