Ivor Darcy
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Turntable recommendation around $2k
bierfeldt
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I have a Rega RP3 with an Exact2 cartridge. You could get an RP6 or a Planar3 with an Exact2 comfortably on the budget. For a MM cartridge the Exact2 is spectacular. Extremely tight and refined bass with Rega's slightly forward mid rang and punchy mid bass. Rega's are stupidly easy to setup. Rega is well known for producing mind bogglingly good tone arms at absurdly low prices and they make there own cartridges in the UK. The 300 series tonearm that is on the RP3/RP6 is typically comparable to tonearms that are 3-5x as expensive. I have purchased two Rega tables (lost one in a divorce) and when I finally upgrade, the RP8 is highly likely to be my next table. IMO best for Jazz. Something about Rega makes a trumpet and saxophone sound better. Definitely colored sound but in a good way and great for prog rock. I can't listen to Genesis's ABACAB enough.

Alternatively, VPI makes an amazing table and it is manufacturered in NJ. The VPI scout would be a great choice or I have seen a Scouy JR. Not sure what cartridge the scout ships with but the JR ships with a 2M Red. You could swap that out for a 2M Bronze or a Clearaudio Concept MM and it should be stunning. VPI makes a gorgeous table that is built like a tank and delivers sonically in every way. The VPI Classic is one of the other tables I am considering for my upgrade. There is a really sweet looking McIntosh for $5500 that is the third. Best for HipHop and bass heavy rock (Metallica's black album) and is a table that will kick you in the chest.

The Clearaudio Concept MM is fabulous and you will want to add a dustcover. Clearaudio is german made. They also make the Marantz Reference table that is out there. And I think they are building the new Mark Levinson table that is being introduced. These guys make some spectacular tables and there worst is pretty fabulous. They are about precision and I feel deliver the most neutral, precise sound of any table. IMO best for classical but great for all music.

I have had minimal experience with Music Hall tables. I listened to the 2.2 quite a bit but have not heard there higher end tables in any extensive sort of way. Commsysman has there 7.x table and really loves them. One of the major selling points in favor of Music Hall and VPI vs Clearaudio and Rega was an AC vs. D.C. Motor. However, I know the Music Hal 2.3 moved away from AC motors, not sure if the rest of the line did. I believe these are made in China which means they tend to be a strong value. You will get more table for the money definitely.

I had a ProJect Xpression2 briefly. I have heard it and the Debut Carbon. Nice tables but I don't feel they stand out vs their peers. Again, my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Setup is noteworthy. I believe the VPIs and Clearaudio require a bit more effort to setup. The Rega will take about 10 minutes if like me your floors are slightly out of level and you have to prop up one side with postits. The other will deffinitely take longer and are more complex to get together. Actually, I can't say that about MusicHall. I have no idea on the. Expect the ClearAudio and the VPI to be more challenging. The PoJect would be slightly harder than the Rega.

bierfeldt
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Typed on my phone

Ivor Darcy
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Thanks bierfeldt.

I never really thought about the Rega turntables as they look rather flimsy ( plinth wise ). The Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB looks substantial and comes with a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge ( I know more expensive does not always mean better ) and is the same price as the RP6 with Exact cartridge.
The Clear Audio Concept is slightly more expensive but still doable.
The VPI Scout doesn't come with a cartridge so I would need to add at least another $500 to get a decent quality cartridge for it. The Scout Junior, as you pointed out, does come with the 2M Red and I guess I could upgrade to the Bronze or maybe the Black. The Clear Audio Artist V2 is probably within reach too. I know next to nothing about cartridges so it's really all a crap shoot to me.
All three turntables get excellent reviews so I am a little torn as to what to choose. The ease of set up of the Rega appeals to me. The Pro-Ject looks more substantial and comes in various colors and finishes ( I like the matte finish rather than glossy ) and the Concept looks very clean and utilitarian and precise. No real surprise that it is German made.
I will do a little more research before I make my decision and maybe have a closer look at the Rega.

Thanks again bierfeldt. Much appreciated.

David

bierfeldt
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The Rega's are not flimsy. The plinth is extremely rigid. Different manufacturers take different approaches to minimize vibrations. Rega goes low mass with materials that don't vibrate. Others go high mass. Both approaches work wonderfully, it is just different.

The Clearaudio Concept is less than the RP6 with a MM cartridge. It is only more with the MC cartridge.

Regarding cartridges, the Rega cartridges are wonderful as are the Ortofon 2M line. I looked seriously at the 2M Black as I love the ease of changing the stylus as opposes to the whole cartridge. The reviews said that cartridge is not very forgiving and if your vinyl is in good shape it is awesome but mediocre vinyl is a problem. The Exact2 is a bit more forgiving. Don't know about the Bronze.

With the VPI, there are lots of amazingly good cartridges to be had for under $500. In the case of the VPI, I would call either Music Direct or Audio Advisor and ask them what to pair it with.

commsysman
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Ivor Darcy wrote:

Hey again folks,

The last thing I need, for now I guess, is a turntable. My budget (originally started out as $3k-$4k for my whole system but has since gone to a little over $5k so far ), is around $2k for a complete package with arm and cartridge.

I was thinking Music Hall MMF 7.3 with Ortofon 2M Bronze ( or 9.3 with the Goldring Eroica ), The Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB with Sumiko Blackbird or ClearAudio Concept with Concept MC cartridge.

Thanks

David

I have the Music Hall MMF-7, and I recommend it. The isolation of the motor from the rest of the turntable is a very desirable feature.

I have A Benz Micro Ace cartridge and the sound is excellent using a Musical Fidelity phono stage, which is also very good. The Ortophon Bronze seems like a good choice, and Needle Doctor packages the Bronze with it for $1595, which saves you a lot of money.

I don't think you gain much by moving from the 7 to the 9. The 7 is very good.

Ivor Darcy
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commsysman wrote:
Ivor Darcy wrote:

Hey again folks,

The last thing I need, for now I guess, is a turntable. My budget (originally started out as $3k-$4k for my whole system but has since gone to a little over $5k so far ), is around $2k for a complete package with arm and cartridge.

I was thinking Music Hall MMF 7.3 with Ortofon 2M Bronze ( or 9.3 with the Goldring Eroica ), The Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB with Sumiko Blackbird or ClearAudio Concept with Concept MC cartridge.

Thanks

David

I have the Music Hall MMF-7, and I recommend it. The isolation of the motor from the rest of the turntable is a very desirable feature.

I have A Benz Micro Ace cartridge and the sound is excellent using a Musical Fidelity phono stage, which is also very good. The Ortophon Bronze seems like a good choice, and Needle Doctor packages the Bronze with it for $1595, which saves you a lot of money.

I don't think you gain much by moving from the 7 to the 9. The 7 is very good.

You don't think the added plinth and ' better ' cartridge make a difference from the 7 to the 9? I thought with everything isolated from each other that was a good thing???
I saw an interview with Roy Hall who said that the further up the chain you go, the better you get. I suppose he would say that though, right?

@Bierfeldt...I will take your word about Regas not being flimsy. They just look so thin and fragile.

I still like the looks and style of the Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB and it did get a very good review from Whathifi ( just pipped at the post by the Clear Audio and the RP6 ) and it comes in a non glossy finish. However, I don't want to buy on looks alone obviously. I would like something that will last a good few years until I can afford to upgrade again.

Thanks again for the input guys.

David

commsysman
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Ivor Darcy][quote=commsysman][quote=Ivor Darcy wrote:

Hey again folks,

Thanks again for the input guys.

David

I just think that the difference in price between the 7 and 9 is a lot more than what you get; a lot of money for a very slight (IMO) improvement.

And of course either turntable can be used with a very wide choice of good cartridges.

Ivor Darcy
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You may be right sir. It does seem like a lot more money for basically an added plinth.

I am taking a closer look at the VPI Scout ( 2016 Edition ) , the Rega RP6 and the Music Hall MMF7.3. At the moment, the VPI is the front-runner ( yes it's the most expensive and I would need to up my budget for a cartridge ) as it gets great reviews, looks solid and is built right here in the USA.

So, narrowed down to those three but which one is " better "? Rega has been around for years and is easy to set-up. VPI also been around almost as long, tables look sturdy and built here. Music Hall is new to me but it also gets great reviews. It's a tough decision.

Thanks once again guys. I sure do appreciate your input and patience.

David

bierfeldt
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They both have deals on the RP6 currently and Music Direct has a deal on the Scout JR. I bought my RP3 as a demo from NeedleDoctor

Ivor Darcy
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Thanks Bierfeldt.

I think I have decided on the VPI Scout. Unfortunately Needle Doctor does not carry VPI and neither Audio Advisor nor Music Direct seems to want to do a deal on a better price. I guess they just sell at retail with no haggling. They both have the Scout at $2,199 ( add $500 for a semi decent cartridge and I am up at $2,700 ) which isn't too unreasonable I guess but I was hoping for a little price break to get me near to the $2500 which was my upper limit.

I will keep trying and see if they can give me a better deal.

Thanks

David

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you really don't need to spend 2700 or 2000 for a good tt. any 500 dollar project or rega or any other good brand tt will sound exactly the same. a well designed tt like the Project debut Carbon Black (499.00) will spin vinyl essentially perfectly. It's a pretty simple mechanical device. So long as it's on a good solid isolation stand, a tt does not, IMO, possess "sound quality".

Ivor Darcy
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You could be right David. However, do you drive the cheapest car that is produced today? It has an engine, 4 wheels and heating/ac so why buy anything more expensive? It does the exact same thing as a Rolls Royce but which one would you rather drive???

I am a big believer in " you get what you pay for " so I am happy to pay a little more for the better quality. I like to write letters rather than email and I have several expensive ( to most ordinary folks ) pens ( I have a few over $3,000 ) that I write with on a daily basis. A Bic disposable costs about 50 cents and does the same thing. So why do I have pens costing several thousand dollars?? Easy, I like to write with something nice that will last my lifetime and more.

So, I am willing to pay the extra for a Turntable of better quality that will last me until I decide whether to upgrade or not.

Different strokes for different folks.

David

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Hi David, I have the Clearaudio Concept MM (purchased May 2013 for AUD $2,500) and it has been excellent in terms of sound, especially now that partnered with Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp and Paradigm Reference Studio 100s (v5.1), reliability and ease of use (rotary knob for rpm choice of 33, 45, 78). I have in original silver trim but the later layered wood looks even more stunning in my view. Setup was a cinch as preset from factory. I have a less costly Project Debut Carbon at work and it is not as user friendly (with fishing wire anti skate mechanism and no auto speed change and location of on/off switch). It is partnered to a much less costly system as well to be fair. No experience with other brands.

David Harper
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yes, you're right about the goofy anti-skate setup. But if someone blindfolded you and then switched back and forth between your two tables, both feeding the same system, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which. And I am on board with the get what you pay for in terms of physical quality, if not sound quality. 35 years ago I had a Micro-Seiki DD-40 turntable with an MA-505 tonearm that cost a grand (which was big bucks in the 80's), and it was a thing of beauty. It had a 3 inch thick solid rosewood base. Everyone who saw it said it was the coolest thing they ever saw.

Aegis AV Cabinets
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Hi David, after you have made a selection on which turn table to go with, take a look at our Athena Series AV / AV-A tower if you are looking for a solution to house all your equipment. Our Athena Series tower incorporates a large size filtered and cooled turntable compartment. Take a look at www.aegisav.com , and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Good luck to you! Mike Kelley, Owner Aegis AV Cabinets

SystemShock
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David Harper wrote:

you really don't need to spend 2700 or 2000 for a good tt. any 500 dollar project or rega or any other good brand tt will sound exactly the same. a well designed tt like the Project debut Carbon Black (499.00) will spin vinyl essentially perfectly. It's a pretty simple mechanical device.

So long as it's on a good solid isolation stand, a tt does not, IMO, possess "sound quality".

That has decidedly not been my experience.

Ivor Darcy
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I really do think you get what you pay for. Shite in = shite out in my opinion.

I am super happy with my system ( excellent help from the guys here especially Bierfeldt, Commsysman and Mtymous ) and it sounds superb. I went with the VPI Scout ( currently has Ortofon 2M Bronze cart ) and have it sitting on a 3 1/2 inch thick block of maple with isonode feet. Phono stage is Vincent PHO 700. Rogue Audio Sphinx 2 hybrid integrated amp and KEF Q900 speakers. Also have Cambridge Audio CXN network player and CXC CD Transport. Recently got the Bluesound Node 2 for streaming MQA . Waiting for the Feliks Elise tube headphone amp arriving and I should be done ( for now...lol! ).

I am so glad I didn't stick to my original budget. I would have wanted to upgrade immediately. Now, I should be happy with my current system for a few years.

David

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