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Welshsox
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Is a turntable the answer ?

Hi

Ive been posting in the speaker section and have now assembled a system consisting of a Creek evo, Nad C372 and some used Von Schweikert VR3's. This is a great system for playing my taste in rock music, its lively dynamic and really rocks.

The problem is that it seems just a little soul less in vocal music.

Im not in anyway trying to ignite the old CD v LP war but its been a long time since ive listened to a vinyl source and im thinking that although the Creek is great at what it does that maybe a reasonable turntable ( around $1000 ) would enable me have a warmer more musical source for lighter recordings.

Im fairly new so please be gentle and id like to reinforce that im looking to add the turntable not replace my CD !!

Look forward to your thoughts

Steve

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

If you were to add a Music Hall MMF5 with either a Monolithic Sound, Music Fidelity, or Jolida phono stage something magic will happen. If you want to spend a little less then MF might recommend the Bellari tube Phono stage.

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Jim

Thanks, I will go and listen to your suggestion.

Another simple question, does anyone make a good turntable in the $1000 range that has automatic operation ?

My system is in the bedroom and its not unusual to fall asleep listening and id hate to have the cartridge skidding around for hours

Thanks

Steve

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

In my opinion, you'll be sacrificing some quality compared with the set-up(s) Jim suggested, but if you must have the auto shut off, the Thorens TD190 with an Ortofon OM10 cart is available at Acoustic Sounds for about $600.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Cheapskate is right on. The TD190 is not anywhere near the quality of the MMF5. Buy a 24 hour ac timer and plug your MMF5 into and set it off at say 1-2am.

You'll appreciate the better table when you are fully awake.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Another option would be to find a device like "The Lift" (which I believe is no longer produced) that will at least get the arm off the record (the motor will still be running, though.)

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Thanks for the advice.

Strikes me though im not the first person to have this requirement, what do other people do ?

Im going to try and listen to the MMF 5 over the next few days

Thanks

Steve

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

"....What do other people do?" With all due respect, Welshhifi, if I'm so little involved with the music that I might get involved with doing a chore, or I might, as you suggest, nod off, I rely on the little silver disc as the sound source. High level analog sources, like lots of other high quality items, deserve attention - and they pretty much require it. CD's deliver less, but they demand less too. Can't beat them for convenience unless you go to the iPod.

CECE
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

How do CD's deliver LESS? Whtcha' talkin' bout' Willis. Do you mean this is a hoax? www.emmlabs.com claiming upsampling to 2X of SACD, out of a CD. with the latest CDSA-SE unit. That would imply CD deliver MORE. A cheapr way is an AVA Ultra DAC. no pops, no surface noise, no cleaning. No large demagnetizers either.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Cheapskate is exactly right. And for further listen "pleasure?" this is a great place for that swellaton $50 DVD/cd player.

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Hi

I apologise

It was not my intention to hurt anyones feelings. like a lot of us I suffer from job related stress and the whole point of assembling a system is to enable me to enjoy music to relax. Im not looking to assemble a hifi system that requires concentration, I do that enough at work all day. If enjoying music to much and falling into a relaxed sleep offends the hifi gods then i am definetly suited to a $29 radio shack CD player.

I shall go back into my primitive world and leave the hifi world to gods like Cheapskate who obviously understand what hifi is about a lot better then a simple guy like me who actually thought it was about music and relaxation !!!

Sorry im not worthy for your forum

Steve

Jeff Wong
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Steve - No need to get overly sensitive -- I doubt anyone's feelings were hurt (possibly other than your own from your response.) Clay was just letting you know, "with all due respect", what he does in answer to your question. I happen to agree that high fidelity LP playback does require involvement -- having something lift a tonearm does fall under the "convenience" category, and one probably is better off resorting to digital playback if he or she expects to nod off.

That said, you might wish to contact the person below, who is selling the device I mentioned:

http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/ca.jtp?ca=10026

Something else to consider would be a tube buffer stage:

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMUFIX10V3

This might give you the presence or dimensionality in the midrange/vocals you seek.

There's room in this forum for varying levels of hi-fi interest. There are no gods here, just people into music and the gear that plays it back.

Buddha
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?


Quote:
Steve - No need to get overly sensitive -- I doubt anyone's feelings were hurt (possibly other than your own from your response.) Clay was just letting you know, "with all due respect", what he does in answer to your question. I happen to agree that high fidelity LP playback does require involvement -- having something lift a tonearm does fall under the "convenience" category, and one probably is better off resorting to digital playback if he or she expects to nod off.

That said, you might wish to contact the person below, who is selling the device I mentioned:

http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/ca.jtp?ca=10026

Something else to consider would be a tube buffer stage:

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMUFIX10V3

This might give you the presence or dimensionality in the midrange/vocals you seek.

There's room in this forum for varying levels of hi-fi interest. There are no gods here, just people into music and the gear that plays it back.

Tube buffer stage! Brilliant!

In all seriousness, that is a good recommendation.

Hopefully, you can audition one.

Really a good idea, Jeff!

Yiangos
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Hey Buddha , you're back.Hope you had a nice Vacations.
btw,i hope you're not angry at me,are you?I am referring to that comment regarding the lady with the whip .

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

It's regrettable that you took offense at my answer to your question, "... what do others do?" I certainly meant no offense, nor would I ever present myself as one who knows more than others about what hi-fi is about - let alone take on the mantle of a God. That's ridiculous. What I tried to impart has to do with what convenience is all about - CD's. They're wonderfully convenient and the best of them, on a good player, deliver better than average hi-fi music.

Jeff makes a suggestion that may contribute to your finding what you're looking for - the Musical Fidelity Tube buffer. I own one, though I no longer use it, but when I used a CD player that was less capable than the one I use now I found it made a dramatic improvement in the sound quality - at least by my fallable human standards. I'll add, however, that in order to get the best performance from the tube buffer you will want to invest in the MF outboard power supply as well. I think Music Direct is offering the buffer at a sale price now.

Having learned the premium you place on music to produce relaxation (a perfectly reasonable priority, I might add) I guess the short answer to your overall question would be, "No, a turntable is probably not the answer". An equal expenditure to improve the output of your CD player is probably a better approach.

As to you being unworthy of this forum, that is patently absurd. I repeat my apology for having unintentionally offended you and suggest we start over from scratch. What do you say?

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Clay

No problem, I did overeact a little !!

The thing that still gets to me though is how much hifi has changed in the last 20 years, it just seems that so much of it nowadays is about reviews, cables, interconnects and gimmickky things. It just doesnt seem like people follow the hobby nowadays to actually listen to music, its more about the hifi. When I was a teenager I used to dream of owning a Rega Planar 2 and when I finally could afford one it was the music that it made that i remember, not the cable or the cartridge or anything techincal. I just remember listening to Wishbone Ash " Live dates " and hearing things ive never heard before.

I dont know maybe im to sentimental, it just seems that when i was young I built a great system for around 1000 pounds ( in Wales in case the name didnt give it away !!) nowadays I cant seem to find that same emotion in the equipment.

But anyways enough rambling, im going to investigate the MF buffer.

Steve

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

" It just doesnt seem like people follow the hobby nowadays to actually listen to music, its more about the hifi."

Sure, there's a lot of talk about gear here, but stick with us, Steve, and you'll find lots of guys who love music and agree with you that the gear is just a means to that end. I'm one of them, but there are many more. Glad to have you aboard.

Cheers,

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Hi,

As previously mentioned ive been struggling with a certain dryness to my system that comes across as a lack of emotion or involvement.

Ive been thinking about a turntable as a solution, this ultimately not being the way forwards.

Well to cut a long story short I was talking it over with my hifi store and they suggested the musical fidelity buffer stage also, however they also suggested my cables could be contributing. Well they loaned me some good quality cables to try and low and behold changing the speaker cable from a average quality monster cable to a Vampire cable totally opened up the whole system, everything sounded warmer, richer and far more involved. They also loaned me some good interconnects, these didnt seem to have that much influence.

The last few weeks have taught me some valuable lessons

1 - Only use magazines and reviews as a guide, they cannot assemble a system to your taste.

2 - The marriage of the components is far more important than the individual bits, no matter how expensive they are.

3 - You absolutely must find a good hifi store and work with them to refine your system. Buying components online or ebay is just not going to work long term.

4 - Dont underestimate the value of the extra bits, I never would have believed the difference a speaker cable made until i could hear it myself.

Thanks

Steve

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Good for you, Steve. I really love a happy ending, and beyond that the four "lessons" you've posted are right on the money. Here in the states, the last ten years have been marked by an alarming trend of fewer and fewer good hi-fi dealers who provide not only guidance but cables on loan etc. Hang on to the one you've got. Your point about synergy - the marriage of the components, I think you called it - may be the most important consideration for anyone interested in this hobby. Regarding the influence of cables, interconnects, and the other extra bits, most of us here have learned that the same way you have and agree with your conclusion - I say most of us. I wouldn't be surprized if, on that point, you provoke a resonse from one of our regulars who holds the opposite view and tends to be even more blunt in expressing his views than I am - if you can imagine that.

Best of Luck,

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Clay

Thanks, I presume that your referring to that "DUP" guy who seems to be obsessed with SACD with 7 cent a foot home depot interconnects.

Thats fine hes entitled to his opinions, ill just be falling asleep perfectly happy knowing that the $150 ive just spent on speaker cable has exponentially increased my enjoyment of the music im listening to !!!

Take care and sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

Cheers

Steve

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Sure is fun, isn't it to sit with a big smile thinking, "What I just did to my system makes me happy." Now I'll suggest two more lessons to those you provided:

1- Don't invest more in equipment than you've invested in music.

2- The secret of staying happy with our system upgrades is knowing when to quit.

Happy New Year!

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Clay

Good points.

One cool thing I did learn today was that at Barnes & Noble you can take any CD in the store to the listening station scan it and listen to samples of every track.

I know you can do something similar on Amazon but its fun just looking around a stroe and trying different genres of music just for the fun of it.

Funny that you mentioned knowing when to quit, my hifi store said exactly the same and told me to go away for a few months !!

Take care

Steve

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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the Tubalizer? Different than the Musical Fidelity - X-10 v3 Tube Buffer and quite a bit less expensive. I've read that to really hear the best from the Musical Fidelity - X-10 v3 Tube Buffer you need the matching power supply, $700!!! I just wonder how the little Tubalizer works for maybe $125 at the most delivered.

ohfourohnine
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Interesting! I've never heard of the Tubalizer - never heard of Audiodigit for that matter. The site looks like they have, or will have, some novel products of the kind tweakers like to play with.

Regards the $700 price to get the best from the MF Tube buffer, the outboard power supply can simultaneously provide power to as many as four of the older X Series MF components. I used to use mine to power the buffer, phono preamp, and the headphone amp. Even so, your point is well taken - pretty pricey way to improve the sound of your CD player. MF has gone another way with their current version of the X series. They integrated the Tube buffer with a new amp design and bundled the amp, CD player, and power supply at $3000. Can't buy the old CD player any more, so I suspect that the remaining stock - such as it is - of the old tube buffer and the old outboard power supplies will become "sale price" items if they haven't already.

CECE
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

Ffor $700 you can get a really FINE SACD/DVD-A/CD etc etc player. THAT would improve the sound more than a dopey over priced power supply.

Welshsox
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

DUP

I have a fine CD player in the Creek

Improving the sound of that for $400-700 would make a lot more sense than buying a $700 SCD player and listening to the handful of SACD's that i like and are available.

SACD has been and gone, its a dying technology along with Betamax and Laserdisc.

Steve

jackfish
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?


Quote:
Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the Tubalizer? Different than the Musical Fidelity - X-10 v3 Tube Buffer and quite a bit less expensive. I've read that to really hear the best from the Musical Fidelity - X-10 v3 Tube Buffer you need the matching power supply, $700!!! I just wonder how the little Tubalizer works for maybe $125 at the most delivered.


That's $300 for the Musical Fidelity - X-10 v3 Tube Buffer and $400 for the Musical Fidelity - X-PSU Power Supply.

CECE
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Re: Is a turntable the answer ?

nooooooo.

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