If you are listening in two channel, theoretically the amp should bypass the internal DAC and simply amplify the analog signal it is receiving from the Dragonfly. I say theoretically because there are a few exceptions. If you have any kind of digital equalizer running, to apply the equalizer, the signal needs to be converted to digital and then back to analog. If you are converting the signal from 2 channel to 5 or 7 channel.

If you use source "Direct" mode or "Pure Direct" mode, the amp should shut off all extraneous circuitry including the DAC unless you are receiving a digital signal.

A quick way to check, put the amp in direct or pure direct mode. Listen to the same song, preferably something really complex and you know well with and without the dragonfly. If it sounds different, then your receiver is not altering your analog signal. If it sounds the same, there are three possibilities,

1 Your receiver is converting an analog signal to digital and back to analog - get a new receiver
2 Your receiver is incapable of reproducing the improved refinement from the DAC - get a new receiver
3 Your ears are incapable of deciphering the improvement in sound - this is unlikely unless you are suffering from hearing loss. Not to be insensitive, but in this case I would sell the Dragonfly on eBay and forget about upgrading.

Assuming you hear a difference, there are lots of DAC upgrades available depending on your budget. Alternatively, depending on the level of your Yamaha receiver, if it is a chip amp or discreet amp, may mean you will get more bang for your buck by upgrading your receiver. Chip amps process all channels together while discreet amps process channels separately. Discreet amps, especially at lower price points, tend to sound dramatically better.

The DAC chip largely does not matter, it is the implementation that is critical. I can think of great DACs that use Burr Brown, Wolfson, Cirrus Logic or Sabre Chips so don't worry about the chip brand.

There is definitely some redundancy but elimination of the Dragonfly might hurt your output. You are outputting a 2 channel digital signal from your PC into the Dragonfly. It is outputting a high quality two channel analog signal to your receiver. The receiver is then applying a conversion to 5 channel. Dolby ProLogic IIx would probably be the most common. If you have Audyssey, it will apply it to this five channel signal which makes me 100% certain that the system is converting your 2 channel analog signal back to digital because Audyssey is applied to a digital signal. The system then converts the 5 channel signal back to analog for amplification.

If you take away the dragonfly and run an analog signal from your soundcard via the headphone jack to the PC, then you are sending a crappy analog signal into the conversion process. I don't know exactly how much of a difference the quality of that analog signal will make but garbage in garbage out should apply. The variable of course is the next few steps.

The only way bypassing the Dragonfly works is if you run a USB cable from the PC directly to the receiver. That is the only way you are sending a raw digital signal to the DAC on the receiver and I believe this would likely lead to the best possible sound.

I like the Denon's because even inexpensive models are discrete amps. A $400 Denon will sound dramatically better than a $400 Sony/Onkyo/Pioneer/Yamaha.

I agree that the $799 for that Denon is a great price.

This is an interesting challenge. The Denon has built in wireless and can stream a digital signal straight to the receiver via music server software or via AirPlay if you use iTunes. This is a technically inferior streaming method compared to an asynchronous USB connection. In practice I find that I can't hear a difference between a USB connection and wireless with my Marantz network player.

This is important because one of the major advantages of the Denon would be Audyssey. However, Audyssey is a digital EQ and the Denon will convert an analog signal to digital to apply Audyssey for multi-channel. It would make sense to send a direct digital signal to that receiver. If you don't use Audyssey, then it would behave like your Yamaha.

chuckles304:

What you are asking for is no doubt a bit complicated and probably will be a little expensive to "do it right".

Ideally, you are definitely correct in the statement that a standalone DAC is, in general, superior to one built-in to a receiver.

However, also don't overlook the fact that a TWO CHANNEL dedicated Amplifier or Integrated Amplifier is "better", in general, than a 7.1 or other Home Theater receiver; especially a Class A or Class A/B two-channel unit.

Class D; which the vast majority of Home Theater Receivers use has in the past been inferior to Class A/B; however, some manufacturers are now producing good results with Class D; but again, they are standalone, two-channel units.

So to stick with ideals, one would want to purchase a standalone DAC, as well as a standalone two-channel amplifier or Integrated amplifier for audio only. The good news is, a lot of manufacturers are realizing this and are including modes in Integrated Amplifiers to literally integrate them into an existing home theater setup seamlessly. My Creek Evolution 50A Integrated is such an example. But it set me back $1200. I also have a dedicated DAC, which set me back another $1,000. I also had a Denon X4000 7.1 system, which, while it had Audessey 32, and did a FANTASTIC job with Home Theater, it fell short of the Creek/DAC combo when listening to music. To be dead honest, I am currently without a Home Theater receiver, but I plan on purchasing the latest incarnation of the Denon X4000 as I found it was the best value and performer out there by FAR, and it sounds like you have found a very similar unit.

So in short and to summarize, I would recommend that if you want the best audio sound, not only buy the Denon for movies, but also a standalone DAC and two-channel Integrated amplifier to handle MIUSIC. This can all be thankfully done in stages of course if your budget doesn't permit all of the equipment at once.

Some food for thought if we are talking about "ideal systems".

I also did not address speakers...but it seems the content of your post is not concerned with them, and so left that discussion out for clarity.

Respectfully,

Ron

Given you don't like / want Audyssey, this makes it easier. I would look for an NAD receiver. The T 748 is $599 at Crutchfield. NAD are music first receivers lacking virtually every other feature. The room correction version they use stinks. They use a mediocre video processor. Good news is you don't need those so it is a perfect choice. You could also look on Audiogon for a used or refurbished NAD receiver or a used or refurbished Arcam.

Then, check out this DACS. This gets an A rating and was directly compared to the Dragonfly and came up superior. This is directly from Stereophile recommended components.

Halide Design DAC HD: $450 $$$
The DAC HD is a solid-state, bus-powered, plug-and-play digital-to-analog converter with tethered input and output cables. The circuitry, all surface-mount, is contained in a small (1.875 cubic inches), black-anodized, machined-aluminum enclosure, and is carried on a small double-sided printed circuit board. The input cable is Wireworld's Starlight USB (2m is standard; other lengths available); output is via two 6" lengths of silver-conductor cable terminated in Eichmann Silver Bullet RCA plugs. The 24-bit Texas Instruments TAS1020B USB interface chip operates in isochronous asynchronous mode with sample rates up to 96kHz. The DAC HD had an "analog-like ease to its sound," coupled with excellent reproduction of recorded space, said JA, who also noted "superb digital audio engineering." Compared to the AudioQuest DragonFly and CEntrance DACport LX, the Halide DAC HD offered slightly smoother highs and produced more spatial depth with stereo recordings, said JA. AD noted that "the affordable and consistently listenable Halide DAC HD . . . has become my USB reference during the past year." He considers the US-made Halide to be among the greatest bargains, if not the great bargain, in perfectionist audio. (Vol.35 Nos.8 & 10, Vo.37 No.7 WWW)

The difference between the T748 and the 757 will be the amount of power. I believe the T748 will deliver 60w into 5 channels while the T757 will deliver 80w.

For perspective, I just ran a calculation in a peak SPL calculator. With 30w of power into 5 speakers with an SPL of 93dB like your infinity speakers, at fifteen feet you would get 108dB of output. This would cause hearing damage after about 45 minutes of exposure so I think you are good.

I am also certain the the NAD will sound better. They are great sounding receivers.

i understand completely. I spend more time listening in my basement than I do listening to my A system which incidentally has Revel speakers. Years from now I may be able to really enjoy it. Good luck to you.

chuckles:

With the budget now in mind, I would go first for the Home Theater Receiver; as it is a main component, and stand by your already chosen Denon for $799. That's exactly how much I paid for my well loved Denon X4000 when it was on clearance.

Cheers,

Ron