BillB
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Three cheers for Ethan
bifcake
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I agree. I like Ethan. He tells it like it is. He's not sneaky or with a hidden agenda like other manufacturers and dealers on these forums. I think Clifton mentioned on another thread that he thought Ethan was a bad salesman. If I were Ethan, I would wear that as a badge of honor. A greater compliment cannot be bestowed. Take a bow, Ethan.

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I'm pro-Ethan, as well.

But, I also really like SAS Audio, Michigan J Frog, and Clifton, whose names come to mind when mentioning the Ethan arguments

I've had the pleasure of tilting back a few with Clifton and I consider him to be a world class audiophile and great (GREAT) company.

SAS Audio offers great educational posts for my level of understanding, and Michigan is a superlative advocate of what things he thinks applies to Hi Fi.

I would never want this to be an either/or endorsement of Ethan at the cost of not seeming to appreciate those other guys.

Sometimes people you like fight with each other, but that doesn't make you like either party less.

And, never forget - we fight so viciously because the stakes are so low!

Cheers to all the involved parties. Fair?

bifcake
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I like DUP, Ethan, Dcsstep, Buddha and Kal Rubinson. These guys run the gamut of educational, thoughtful, entertaining and fun.

ethanwiner
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Thanks very much guys.


Quote:
Clifton mentioned on another thread that he thought Ethan was a bad salesman. If I were Ethan, I would wear that as a badge of honor.


Indeed, I'm much more interested in good science than selling stuff. Even though I sell acoustic treatment, I believe so strongly in the importance of room acoustics I still maintain my DIY-based Acoustics FAQ which I mentioned recently elsewhere.

Though in my defense, I'm not really a bad salesman. Not that I want to be a salesman! Clifton's main point is that I argue too much. I may like to argue the science of audio in forums, but I don't usually argue with my customers!

I'm also aware that some people who might be customers get turned off if they disagree with my views on audio science. Again, I believe strongly in the importance of spreading good info, and I care about that much more than I care about making another few sales.

--Ethan

BillB
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Sure, in theory, cheers to all. In practice, I like the posts of most of the regulars and give special props to alexo, buddha, clifton, jackfish, mrlowry, kal, elk, selfdivider, lionel, JA, and many others too that I'm forgetting to quickly type. There are a few regulars who I, frankly, really don't like or appreciate most of the time. No need to name them because it's obvious, but I mean the ones that really get their knickers in a twist and spew negativity - usually in conjunction with overly long posts. The long posts are helpful in one way though - it gives me fair warning to just skip over their stuff.

Kal Rubinson
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Quote:
I like DUP, Ethan, Dcsstep, Buddha and Kal Rubinson. These guys run the gamut of educational, thoughtful, entertaining and fun.

In that order?

Kal

ethanwiner
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Quote:
In that order?


But Kal, that puts your name and DUP's farthest away.

Not that anything anti-DUP is meant to be inferred!

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Quote:

Quote:
I like DUP, Ethan, Dcsstep, Buddha and Kal Rubinson. These guys run the gamut of educational, thoughtful, entertaining and fun.

In that order?

Kal

In any order you like, babycakes. All you gotta know is that pappa loves you.

PS. You're a bigger primadonna than I gave you credit for!

Kal Rubinson
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
I like DUP, Ethan, Dcsstep, Buddha and Kal Rubinson. These guys run the gamut of educational, thoughtful, entertaining and fun.

In that order?

Kal

In any order you like, babycakes. All you gotta know is that pappa loves you.

PS. You're a bigger primadonna than I gave you credit for!

I may be a primadonna but I was not referring to an issue of precedence. I was referring to the two parallel lists and wondered if I really belonged at the fun end with DUP so far from it.

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Quote:
I may be a primadonna but I was not referring to an issue of precedence. I was referring to the two parallel lists and wondered if I really belonged at the fun end with DUP so far from it.

Oh no, I think you're right there along with DUP at the fun side of things. Don't feel left out.

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Quote:
Sure, in theory, cheers to all. In practice, I like the posts of most of the regulars and give special props to alexo, buddha, clifton, jackfish, mrlowry, kal, elk, selfdivider, lionel, JA, and many others too that I'm forgetting to quickly type. There are a few regulars who I, frankly, really don't like or appreciate most of the time. No need to name them because it's obvious, but I mean the ones that really get their knickers in a twist and spew negativity - usually in conjunction with overly long posts. The long posts are helpful in one way though - it gives me fair warning to just skip over their stuff.

Bill-

I'm honored to be on that short list. The forum wouldn't be the same without any of them. I'd drop myself (because I already know what I know) and add Jeff Wong, who hasn't been around in quite some time.

Ethan authoritatively contributes on a much neglected subject without "selling" himself or his company. He doesn't take pot shots at his competitors. It's nice to have him here too.

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Quote:
Remarkable how a few folks get obsessed with taking shots at Ethan W. Goodness -.... And I think it detracts from the atmosphere of the forum.
I'm a casual bystander but I see Ethan contributing positively, with excellent experience and knowledge, being transparent and upfront. You don't have to agree but jeez, enough with the sneering personal insults.

In some cases I guess. But in others, a resounding nope.

Everytime I see an Ethan post, I always see him working the angles promoting his products, in one fashion or another.

If he can eliminate every possible variable affecting sound, it leaves only speakers and room treatments.
Sometimes it is slicing up anothers ideas and opinions, other times he subtly eliminates those ideas. But he is always eliminating any variable except room treatments. He uses the term as a "scientific" tool.

Ethan is a very cleaver marketer. I could explain more about how he works, since I have experience and friends who are professionals in business ethics and watching his posts.

Is Ethan a positive contributor, with excellent experience and knowledge, being transparent and upfront, or just the opposite? Let's check to see if what some of these gents say is true.

1) Is Ethan being attacked or is Ethan the attacker?

In my case, Ethan clearly insinuated and impuned my knowledge, and the knowledge of viewers starting on page 4 of Upgrade paths in Entry Level.

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...e=1&fpart=4

When misleading information is provided, as we shall see below, "playing" the viewers. I do not think that is right. Looks like some do.

In my case, I warned Ethan about his insinuations more than once on that string.

This was before I started the string "Accuracy" in Entry level.

By the way, it is no secret that Ethan has tried intimidating and provoking others before and one only has to look in the dead zone.

2) I presented evidence concerning his graphs in my initial post on a new string (from Upgrade paths in Entry Level.)

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...e=0&fpart=1

If he was what he claimed, all he had to do was refute the evidence I presented right then. End of story. Instead, it was trickery, sidestep the issue, and called me a troll.

He had to wait till Elk partially explained the scientific evidence I posted, so he could understand it. Again, Elk had to explain it to him.

All of this is very easy to verify by his replies.

3) Ethan used a photograph to portray one speaker instead of two speakers, after my initial post. Using one speaker
would of course negate wiring one speaker opposite polarity.

He also claims the idea (by a picture) that the speaker is facing forward, which proves absolutely nothing, except to reinforce the idea that he used one speaker during the test and somehow he is honest.

But Ethan never actually says he used two speakers for the test,,,, while at the same time he visually portrays one speaker in the test setup. Luckily I kept him straight by quoting his own previous words, and he admitted he used two speakers in his next post.

4) After I ask what mic he was using, Ethan claims he did not know whether he used the RShack spl meter or AKG C451 with a calibrated CK22 capsule.

But if it was the Rshack spl, he claims it was tested and accurate only up to 800hz. Of course the standard calibrated frequency of Neumann and other mics is 1khz.

Yet he is not sure the Radio Shack spl meter is accurate at the reference frequency, 1khz. Below we will see some graphs of the RShack meter that are self explanatory.

So until I brought up the mic, Ethan was quite content to let us believe his graphs were accurate. Afterall, he said these graphs were a typical room's response with no explanation of any major problems.

5) After I presented my initial post Ethan conveniently remembered which microphone he used and states.

"The HF roll-off is from the Radio Shack SPL meter I used for that test."

Wow he suddenly remembers the mic and now it has a major high frequency rolloff problem, after my initial post. How convenient. But how did he know if and how much rolloff the RS meter had since he never calibrated it above 800hz, by his own admission.

Let's see how Ethan's fabricated explanation plays out. Look at these Radio Shack calibration graphs for yourself.

http://www.digital-recordings.com/audiocd/radio.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-prod...tion-table.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/49147.html

Notice 2 of the 3 graphs show the meter to be pretty accurate at the extremes and all pretty accurate in between. In the worst case scenario,
the meter still does not account for even half of the rolloff shown in the graph/measurements. And the meter
does not affect the 300-2khz drop off virtually any. How convenient that he only calibrated to 800hz, not even 2khz.

So the meter is not the culprit of the mid and high frequency rolloffs as Ethan would have us believe.

6) Ethan has been claiming the total audio response is from a typical room. Now we find out Ethan's test room is completely bare, no rugs, curtains, chairs, couch, etc. This causes the mid/highs to measure completely different because there is no furnishing to absorb the direct and reflections etc. The type and amount of treatment would be quite different. This is what Clifton was commenting on, and rightfully so.

7) How well does Ethan understand electronics? Well, Ethan completely misapplied his cheap AC RFI filter to block audio frequencies when attacking the Jenalabs RFI filter. He tried to use a $40.00 part to fix an audio problem that the filter was never designed to fix.

His filter was designed for RF above 150khz, not for stopping audio pops and clicks in the audio band. I explained this in the "Accuracy string". If used properly in RF applications, the Jenalabs filter works over a much much wider frequency range than Ethan's cheap substitute.

Ethan's filter works from 150khz (basically worthless) to 30mhz vs Jenalabs filter that works from at least 150khz up to the lower gigahertz.
There is no comparison.

8) Lastly, but importantly, Ethan attacked me with in Room tuning and Acoustics, page 3 link even though I had never posted there.
I responded and easily refuted his desparaging comments on page 4.
http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...e=0&fpart=3

I presented some evidence. I hope you will accept the evidence and be honest about your posts.

I have learned that some use "science" or "scientific" as simply a marketing tool.
I remember Ethan's statement that he believe in "truth, justice and the scientific method"

How does BillB's description match up with what was just revealed?

Here is an article I think is pertinent by Martin DeWulf (criminal defense attorney but he is not watching us), and editor of BFS. It is called "Truth be Told". Please pay special attention to the section "The Internet:" and the cliques.

http://www.boundforsound.com/reviews.htm#Truth

I can almost imagine the replies, the refutes, excuses, repraisals. Have at it.

bifcake
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Here we go again...

Lamont Sanford
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I have to agree that Ethan is the only forum member that actually knows what he is talking about. It's a lonely job but someone has to do it. Nevertheless, Ethan is just the type of persona that would end up a suspect on an episode of Law & Order.

cyclebrain
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3 Cheers. Is that on a scale of 10?
Ethan, your input is always welcome even if I don't always agree. As is Dups.

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Quote:
Ethan, your input is always welcome even if I don't always agree.


Give it time, I'm sure you'll come around eventually.

--Etahn

vladoslav
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Guys,
generaly I think that the STP forum is too agresive, violent, egoistic, arogant, bounceable - pick one or all - for a hobby!

Elk
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"bounceable"?

vladoslav
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Quote:
"bounceable"?

"thrasonic"

Elk
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Got it.

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