rmeyer52
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For those of you who want an audiophile CD player without paying big $$
Buddha
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No stone was left unturned in striving to create a player that is superior in every way.

Is this a marketing post, or are you a fellow consumer?

I ask only because your post reads more like an ad than a listening experience.

michiganjfrog
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I thought so too. I vote: marketing post.

The entire message was lifted from an ad blurb on the site linked. In fact, its "pre-marketing", because this product isn't even out yet until mid-May.

Lamont Sanford
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http://www.hifirotation.com/files/41b75ab6ac9fbcdd85b139f072d7ef41-78.html


Quote:
Well it looks like I hit a nerve when I started a post over at the Stereophile forum on the Meridian $16K CD player. There are a number of Ayre owners who seem to have ruffled feathers after Stereophile rated the Meridian as the CD player to get and the best on the market. Now the people who have spent $6K on their Ayre CD players are worried that they don't have the best CD player on the market anymore and are asking for more head to head tests......Then there are those of us who are listening to great music with our $2000 CD players. We seem to be a very content lot but then we don't equate price with quality. It would be interesting to do a blind listening test of some very high end CD players to a bunch of audiophiles.

Nah, not a sales spammer post. Just somebody throwing his two cents on a new CD player coming out that is inexpensive. His only mistake was plagiarism. But he does seem to have an issue with CD players in general. I at least hope he isn't spamming this forum. This is the one forum that SM has a zero tolerance. Maybe RichM could come back and get this cleared up before somebody finds the connection and motive behind what appears to be a spammer.

rmeyer52
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I am not a Spammer just someone who believes that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get great hi-fi components. Let me also they that I doubt that ANYONE could tell the difference in a blind hearing between the Emotiva CD Player and the $5,000 AYRE

jazzfan
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I have no idea how the Emotiva CD Player will sound but it does have a very nice array of features for a $400 player (balanced outputs, digital outputs, nice remote, etc.). Seems like it's more than worth a serious look for those on a tight budget. Thanks for the heads up.

rmeyer52
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Thank you for the comments there are way too many people here who need reenforcement because they spent more than they had too for great hi-fi

Lamont Sanford
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I was being facetious. As usual. I'm painfully aware of all the possibilities.

JoeE SP9
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Quote:
Thank you for the comments there are way too many people here who need reenforcement because they spent more than they had too for great hi-fi

How do you know how much anyone else but has spent on anything? Have you polled anyone? Whose home and/or listening room have you visited? How can you really know anything about a product that is not on the market yet?
Do you have access to early production samples? Have you ever seen one outside of an add for Emotiva?
I am curious about the soon to be available Emotiva CD player. Unless you have one you can't be anything but curious yourself
Let me get this straight. You go from curious about an unobtainable product to declaring that a lot of people over spent because they didn't buy that same product you want?

I have one more question. Where do you park your ego when you're in a small room?

Lamont Sanford
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Let it go. Wrong forum. The guy posted something for entry level.

mrlowry
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RichM-

You have to understand our skepticism since you showed up probably 80% of your posts about equipment have been Emotiva, Emotiva, Emotiva which is as far as I can tell a factory direct outfit AND your profile lists your occupation as an "Internet marketing manager." So either you're someone who has limited experience with only a couple of brands (which is why you keep raving about a single brand) or you are in some way associated with Emotiva and you are astroturfing, which I've suspected for quite some time. In fact I shared my suspicions with Stephen M. in a PM last evening which is something that I've never done before, but it's the weekend so I don't expect a response until Monday. Members of the industry are welcome (Ethan and SAS for example) as long as they openly identify themselves. If you are in any way associated with Emotiva I'd say this is your one chance to come clean because if that turns out to be the case later and it's not disclosed NOW Emotiva will have lost all credibility with me and I suspect a number of members of the forum.

Just a small sample of threads:

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57281

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57378

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57778

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post58339

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post61163

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post65050

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post52442

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post53216

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57488

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post63891

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post58484

Lamont Sanford
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Uh oh! You've got Mr. Lowry on your case but good. Not a good thing.

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I like the fact that he knows how good it sounds without ever having heard it.

Ethan is the only guy I know who can usually do that.

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Quote:
RichM-

You have to understand our skepticism since you showed up probably 80% of your posts about equipment have been Emotiva, Emotiva, Emotiva which is as far as I can tell a factory direct outfit AND your profile lists your occupation as an "Internet marketing manager." So either you're someone who has limited experience with only a couple of brands (which is why you keep raving about a single brand) or you are in some way associated with Emotiva and you are astroturfing, which I've suspected for quite some time. In fact I shared my suspicions with Stephen M. in a PM last evening which is something that I've never done before, but it's the weekend so I don't expect a response until Monday. Members of the industry are welcome (Ethan and SAS for example) as long as they openly identify themselves. If you are in any way associated with Emotiva I'd say this is your one chance to come clean because if that turns out to be the case later and it's not disclosed NOW Emotiva will have lost all credibility with me and I suspect a number of members of the forum.

Just a small sample of threads:

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57281

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57378

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57778

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post58339

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post61163

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post65050

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post52442

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post53216

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post57488

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post63891

http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showf...=true#Post58484

Gee cry cry cry..I'm so sad

rmeyer52
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How nice of you to have the time to search the forums, must have a lot of time on your hands. First let me say that I own an Internet Consulting company and that I have no relationship with Emotiva except one of being a very loyal and happy customer. In addition to Emotiva you will see me touting Apple products as well as I am an Apple developer.

As for my hi-fi background since working at Sony during the 80's I have been through a lot of components including Krell, Levinson, Rega, Pioneer Elite and Vincent. I have also maintained contacts of sales people within the industry who represent brands like B&W, Ayre, Macintosh among others. Based on the people who were upset that Stereophile dared name the Meridian ahead of the Ayre it was easy to see that there are lot of people who upset as the Ayre was the "standard" for excellence.

As my journey towards my hi-fi excellence continued I soon realized that the prices that were being charged were nothing short of ridiculous but then my friends told me that there were substantial markups involved because of the distribution channels. When I came across a brand that had audiophile quality at great prices I thought it might be a good idea to promote them to those of us who have to live with realistic budgets. I only came across their equipment by accident and if I could I would continue to promote them because I think they are great products at a great price.

I have listened to my friends $60,000 high end system with Revel speakers and a Meridian CD player and yes it is impressive but I will never be able to afford such a luxury so for me Emotiva is it. All I am saying that some people here might want to consider the brand before people here have them yearning to spend $5,000 on an AMP

Lamont Sanford
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As far as I'm concerned you're preaching to the choir. So, let me help you out a little.

Hey, someone found what might be a nice CD player for the money. The company even has a BBS forum open for membership.

http://emotiva.com/erc1.shtm

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Rich,

It seems that you struck a raw nerve with your post. The audio hobby is filled with odd rules which for some strange reason way too many audiophiles feel must be followed in order to achieve a good sounding system that also warrants the audiophile seal of approval. Of course to get that seal of approval one's system must contain just the right equipment and the right equipment can only come from a manufacturer whose equipment has been anointed by the high end press.

Now don't get me wrong, inexpensive equipment is okay so long as it has been anointed, such as Cambridge Audio or Rega. And who knows maybe Emotiva will one day be so anointed but until that time it would be wise for you just enjoy their equipment without writing about it on this forum.

For example I am constantly recommending the Logitech/Slim Devices line of music streaming devices to people here on this forum and yet I've never been accused of Astroturfing and the like because these devices are on Stereophile's list of recommended components.

A similar thing happens with respect to music. "Jazz at the Pawn Shop" is considered the be all and end all of audiophile jazz recordings and yet I can easily name several other non-anointed recordings which better JATPS both musically and sonically but I've given up even trying since getting an audiophile's head out their ass isn't an easy task. What I don't understand is if your head's up your ass why bother to spend any money at all on audio since it's all going to sound like shit anyway.

And Rich, one such sonic and musical masterpiece is "Late" by New Orleans based clarinetist Alvin Batiste released on Columbia in 1993.

rmeyer52
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Quote:
Rich,

It seems that you struck a raw nerve with your post. The audio hobby is filled with odd rules which for some strange reason way too many audiophiles feel must be followed in order to achieve a good sounding system that also warrants the audiophile seal of approval. Of course to get that seal of approval one's system must contain just the right equipment and the right equipment can only come from a manufacturer whose equipment has been anointed by the high end press.

Now don't get me wrong, inexpensive equipment is okay so long as it has been anointed, such as Cambridge Audio or Rega. And who knows maybe Emotiva will one day be so anointed but until that time it would be wise for you just enjoy their equipment without writing about it on this forum.

For example I am constantly recommending the Logitech/Slim Devices line of music streaming devices to people here on this forum and yet I've never been accused of Astroturfing and the like because these devices are on Stereophile's list of recommended components.

A similar thing happens with respect to music. "Jazz at the Pawn Shop" is considered the be all and end all of audiophile jazz recordings and yet I can easily name several other non-anointed recordings which better JATPS both musically and sonically but I've given up even trying since getting an audiophile's head out their ass isn't an easy task. What I don't understand is if your head's up your ass why bother to spend any money at all on audio since it's all going to sound like shit anyway.

And Rich, one such sonic and musical masterpiece is "Late" by New Orleans based clarinetist Alvin Batiste released on Columbia in 1993.

Jazzfan:

Thanks and I agree with everything you said. I am going to check out that release right now

Jan Vigne
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As for my hi-fi background since working at Sony during the 80's I have been through a lot of components including Krell, Levinson, Rega, Pioneer Elite and Vincent.

I have no opinion of your relationship with any company nor do I care, that's for someone else to figure out.

However, I can think of at least a dozen folks I know reasonably well who have been through that much high quality equipment - and more - who I think still don't have a clue as to what sounds good. If they did, they would have found it long ago and stayed there. They haven't so I can only assume they don't have a decent map with them.

I would disagree with the premise that name dropping gives you some sort of standing in any community worth belonging to. But neither does complaining about the people in any one community, I think that's called bigotry.

rmeyer52
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Quote:

Quote:
As for my hi-fi background since working at Sony during the 80's I have been through a lot of components including Krell, Levinson, Rega, Pioneer Elite and Vincent.

Mr Brain Surgeon

If you read one of the posts before someone said something about my hi-fi background thus I was trying to clarify. Amazing how you jump to conclusions but then your previous posts seem to indicate that you somehow are above everyone.

I have no opinion of your relationship with any company nor do I care, that's for someone else to figure out.

However, I can think of at least a dozen folks I know reasonably well who have been through that much high quality equipment - and more - who I think still don't have a clue as to what sounds good. If they did, they would have found it long ago and stayed there. They haven't so I can only assume they don't have a decent map with them.

I would disagree with the premise that name dropping gives you some sort of standing in any community worth belonging to. But neither does complaining about the people in any one community, I think that's called bigotry.

JoeE SP9
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I am a member over at audioholics.com so I was aware of the Emotiva gear. I have been waiting for their CD player to come out as I am interested in any reasonably priced good sounding gear. I have also been considering one of their power amps. I am also aware that the folks who run the audioholics site are very enthusiastic about the Emotiva brand.

If there are some Emotive CD players available shortly I'll be pulling the trigger on one. The price is reasonable and the return policy is excellent. Besides, I had already decided it was time to replace my modified Marantz CD-63SE. I shall wait with baited "ears".

Jan Vigne
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Your post is less than clear.

I assume you're trying to get uppity too?

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Quote:
I would disagree with the premise that name dropping gives you some sort of standing in any community worth belonging to. But neither does complaining about the people in any one community, I think that's called bigotry.

Jan,

I love your post since it serves as the best possible proof that everything I wrote in my previous post is completely true. So not only do many audiophiles engage in the act of name dropping but then they are in complete denial about it too boot. Way to go!!

The first step towards trying to correct a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists and your steadfast denial of said problem is not helping things one bit.

Jan Vigne
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How kind of you to do an analysis of me over the forum. How do you manage that? Oh, wait, I got it, you just know you're right and everyone else is wrong. You know, I've met so many people with that same opinion I can't figure out how anybody could ever be right since everybody else is always wrong.

Thanks, jazzfan, I'll ignore your diagnosis and have a better day for it.

OK, now that you can't make me the bad guy in this thread, how about we return to calling what's his name a company shill? That was so much fun before.

Just one big happy family who can't wait to piss on somebody.

Geeeeeeeez!

rmeyer52
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Jan:

I've seen people like you before - but I had to pay an admission.

Yes I copied the text from the Emotiva page because it was, I thought, a great summary of their new CD player. I should have known that audio snobs would stink up the place to justify the fact that they spent tons of money when they didn't need to.

There are two brands that I often talk about to anyone..one is Apple the other Emotiva. Both to me are great brands with great products but it seems your mind is closed and a mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open.

JoeE SP9
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I still want to know how you can rate a product you've only seen in adds on the internet?
If you're an Apple developer I would expect you to shill for Apple.

rmeyer52
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You are quite correct with that but I believe in the brand and judging from the components they are using in the CD player I don't see how it could not be a great player. We all buy components based on spec's, I mean listening in the store does not guarantee the same sound reproduction at home since there are so many variables. And although I really like their products I would not trade my Paradigm speakers for theirs even if I had to replace them.

Jan Vigne
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Quote:
Jan:

I've seen people like you before - but I had to pay an admission.

How true! Talent like this doesn't come cheap.

I hope you didn't settle for the lower priced show, there is a difference.

And here you could have had the real deal!

Welshsox
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Rich

I have no issue with Emotiva at all and have seriously considered them before going with Anthem another underrated brand. I have also listened to numerous peices of gear and strongly believe that price does not directly relate to quality both physical and aural. Having said that however it is a fact that generaly the more you pay for hifi gear the better it sounds, a Ayre or Esoteric for $5k will sound significantly better than a $2k player. The way your presenting your argument is all wrong, the whole premise of Emotiva working is that they sell a good product at a reasonable price, this serves a vast range of people looking for straight forward good value kit. They are not really trying to compete with the exotic brands, its a different marketplace and their is little integration between e commerce products and hi end hifi.

The thing that I think burns the sensible people here is that you are claiming $5000 sound quality on a $400 player when you have not heard a note, it could be great or it could be crap. How can you tell ? basing it purely on your impression of the company is the exact failure you accuse others of with exotic kit !!

Alan

rmeyer52
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Welsh:

Your point is valid and well taken but even the CD players one might sample and an audio store bare little resemblance to the CD player once you get it home. However judging from the internal components it looks as though this could one hell of a player. Although I personally like to audition amps and speakers I usually don't do for CD players as the sound at the dealer is usually a hell of a lot different than how it sounds at home. I would bet that a LOT of people will find this a great value for the money.

Lamont Sanford
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I agree. I'm looking to replace my old work horse Sony. What the hell.

Welshsox
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Lamont

I would have thought a blue light special at Wal-mart for $19.99 would be more your idea of splashing out ?

Alan

Lamont Sanford
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Nah, I usually go around and get something that was audiophile grade years ago. Somebody's trash is always somebody's treasure. I bet you got a lot of stuff stashed away somewhere just collecting dust. I bet a lot of you guys do. I bet if you guys get together and put together a complete system for me all I have to do is pay for the shipping to get it off your hands. It can be a group project. Think about the possibilities. I can change my user ID to George Jefferson.

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Quote:
You are quite correct with that but I believe in the brand and judging from the components they are using in the CD player I don't see how it could not be a great player.


Sorry, but seeing a list of parts is not an indicator of anything. It does look nice. The remote looks nice too.


Quote:

We all buy components based on spec's, I mean listening in the store does not guarantee the same sound reproduction at home since there are so many variables.


You may buy components based on specs. I do not. I may use specs to narrow the choices but I always listen before buying.


Quote:

And although I really like their products I would not trade my Paradigm speakers for theirs even if I had to replace them.


Buying speakers without hearing them first borders on being terminally stupid.

rmeyer52
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Joe E:

I too listen at my dealer but as people who posted on this forum has said that does not guarantee that the components will sound the same at home.

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Quote:
How kind of you to do an analysis of me over the forum. How do you manage that? Oh, wait, I got it, you just know you're right and everyone else is wrong. You know, I've met so many people with that same opinion I can't figure out how anybody could ever be right since everybody else is always wrong.

Thanks, jazzfan, I'll ignore your diagnosis and have a better day for it.

OK, now that you can't make me the bad guy in this thread, how about we return to calling what's his name a company shill? That was so much fun before.

Just one big happy family who can't wait to piss on somebody.

Geeeeeeeez!

Again your posts only serve to prove my point. Instead of facing the issue you instead try and change the subject. I'm not saying that you engage in audio name dropping but denying that it exists is outright lunacy.


Quote:
However, I can think of at least a dozen folks I know reasonably well who have been through that much high quality equipment - and more - who I think still don't have a clue as to what sounds good. If they did, they would have found it long ago and stayed there. They haven't so I can only assume they don't have a decent map with them.

As you stated in the above quote, name chasing often does not lead to audio nirvana but at the same time the statement also tacitly acknowledges that name chasing does exist. Now you may not view their endless searching through the anointed offerings of the high end as name chasing but I do (and I would gather so does Rich M.) and it's at point we disagree. You say they have no map and I say they have a map, a map that only points up - up to the most senselessly costly and anointed equipment.

Perhaps if a I posted all of Stereophile's covers from the past two or three years then you could clearly see how many times the world's best CD player, speakers, amp, preamp, etc. has been "discovered" and you might just begin to see my point. Look, I'm not siding with the pro-DBT crowd, since I think that they are often as misguided as the anti-DBT crowd, but that doesn't mean that I have to follow sheepishly along with the belief that only two inch thick aluminum face plates and garden hose sized cables can and will sound good.

I don't know if the $400 Emotiva CD player will turn out to be the giant killer that Rich hopes it will be but I am quite sure that if it is a giant killer I won't be reading about in the high end press. Oh wait, maybe I will read about it but then it would go something like this:

"At $400 the Emotiva CD player is quite the over achiever, offering one a small glimpse into the world of high end audio but lacking that last bit of resolution and transparency that only the best high end CD players can deliver."

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Quote:

I too listen at my dealer but as people who posted on this forum has said that does not guarantee that the components will sound the same at home.

Ya, but most good dealers will let you take home a unit for at least the weekend, if not a couple of hours.

rmeyer52
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I don't know if the $400 Emotiva CD player will turn out to be the giant killer that Rich hopes it will be but I am quite sure that if it is a giant killer I won't be reading about in the high end press. Oh wait, maybe I will read about it but then it would go something like this:

"At $400 the Emotiva CD player is quite the over achiever, offering one a small glimpse into the world of high end audio but lacking that last bit of resolution and transparency that only the best high end CD players can deliver

Thank you Jazzman that is exactly my point.

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Rich

Thats the whole point, there are lots of $500 products that sound good ( NAD, Cambridge Audio, Marantz etc ) they dont just sound as good as a $5k player ( Ayre, Esoteric etc )

Some people are just willing to spend the money for the extra, some just dont see the point.

Alan

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Quote:
Uh oh! You've got Mr. Lowry on your case but good. Not a good thing.

Youve lost your way, Lamont. You used to be admirable, but now you are a reserved, pandering sip.

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and jazz at the pawnshop does sound great. in general, I think a well recorded two-mic job(how that album was recorded) will always best a multi-micd job... the phase anomalies, fuzzy localization, and strange balance problems that present in multi-tracking make the method inferior... many modern jazz albums are multi-tracked. give me the old stuff any day.

I don't really care for jazz other than once in a blue moon, though.. or any music that is centered around improvisation.. which is why i hate jamband music with a passion.(i despise the dead, phish, moe, um, all that garbage)

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Quote:
Buying speakers without hearing them first borders on being terminally stupid.

That would be a cool poll query: Did you buy your speakers without hearing them first?

I bet a significant number of 'us' have bought sound unheard based purely on a review.

We can sometimes know how things sound without hearing them. Just ask Ethan!

Heck, it seems Rich M even knows how this unit sounds and it hasn't been released yet. He's a 'prescient listener,' maybe?

I don't think people have a problem with saying a unit sounds great, it's just that usually, the person making the goddamned claim has actually heard the effing unit!

Cries of foul for asking you to listen to it first?

Come now.

"Snobbery! These audiophiles don't recognize the greatness of my brand of choice...blah blah blah."

Dude, all we ask is that you listen to the damn thing before touting it. How would your initial post vary in any meaningful way from that of a spammer?

Heck, tell ya what: the 25 dollar Phillips unit at WalMart sounds just as good as the Emotiva, and if you don't believe me you are an audio snob.

400 bucks for a CD player! What, is it dipped in gold plate, or something?

For its twenty-five dollar price, the Phillips bats way above its price class and lacks just that last little bit that the 16 times as expensive Emotiva can deliver.

jazzfan
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and jazz at the pawnshop does sound great. in general, I think a well recorded two-mic job(how that album was recorded) will always best a multi-micd job... the phase anomalies, fuzzy localization, and strange balance problems that present in multi-tracking make the method inferior... many modern jazz albums are multi-tracked. give me the old stuff any day.

I do agree with you on this point. JATPS is an excellent sounding recording but my point is that there are many other excellent sounding, two-mic recordings with exceptional playing, they just haven't been anointed in and by the high end press.


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I don't really care for jazz other than once in a blue moon, though.. or any music that is centered around improvisation.. which is why i hate jamband music with a passion.(i despise the dead, phish, moe, um, all that garbage)

That is a manner of personal taste and, believe it or not, I do respect your personal taste...provided of course that you don't post a bunch of negative comments in a thread about the Grateful Dead or jazz. If it's not your cup of tea just move on to something else. I don't like rap or heavy metal, so I avoid commenting about them in thread dedicated to them. However if someone comes along and pisses on jazz, in a thread about jazz, well that's a different story and they get it from me full blast. By the way this is why I'm doing my best to overlook your use of the word "garbage" since this is not a thread about jambands.

JoeE SP9
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Although I like all that "jam band garbage". I can't get it up for JATP. Admittedly it's a superb recording. The music, well, that's great too. However, let's admit that there's not a lot of virtuosity here. To be frank the playing has always sounded to me like a bunch of wannabees' playing their hearts out. Lot's of enthusiasm
Yeah, I know that's incomplete but so is the playing. Although I sometimes play it to show of how good my system sounds. It's not what I play when I what to hear great music. For Duke (M&K Realtime) while not sounding quite as good audiophile wise is great music to me. Plus, it's also pretty good for showing off my system.
Before the detractors chime in here, this is my opinion and I don't care if you don't agree with me. Y'all can start throwing tomatoes now!

andy_c
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That would be a cool poll query: Did you buy your speakers without hearing them first?

I bet a significant number of 'us' have bought sound unheard based purely on a review.

I'll bite on that troll . I have, and even more amusingly, it was based on a post I read at Audio Annex. I did realize the risk in doing this.

They are pro audio monitors - JBL LSR6332. I'll cut to the chase here. I'll never buy another audiophile product again. I lived with a pair of Magnepan MG-III speakers for around 20 years. I don't know if Magnepan has fixed the problem, but mine degraded over time, producing quite audible distortion from gradual delamination of the printed "voice coil" from the mylar diaphragm. They were sent back to Magnepan on several occasions, and each time they fixed them okay, but the fix did not last.

Another amusing point is that the predecessors of these, the LSR32, are one of the speakers considered in the article by Sean Olive and Floyd Toole in the DBT flame thread elsewhere in this forum.

Lamont Sanford
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Uh oh! You've got Mr. Lowry on your case but good. Not a good thing.

Youve lost your way, Lamont. You used to be admirable, but now you are a reserved, pandering sip.

It's a technique.

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