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January 31, 2007 - 3:38pm
#1
Is there such a thing as "system accomodation?"
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I know exactly what you mean. It works in the other direction too.
The easiest conclusion to draw is the demonstrable effect of conditioning. The flat-earth types no doubt place this way up on the list and for good reason. However, over time, I don't think we are so easily fooled and after many hours of listening under various conditions, both physiological and environmental, (not to mention numerous software changes) the truth emerges...if for no other reason than expanded sampling rates.
Personally, I think it is an entirely inconsistant and fluid mix of conditioning and legititmate electro-acoustical changes. This is the very reason that subjective reviews over an extended period of time conducted by experienced listeners are more likely to get to the truth of how something really sounds than measurements or quick, first impressions.
I sure would like it to be conditioning. Great sound would be a lot cheaper.
Along these same lines, I have often wondered how much effect "exceeding expectations" have on subjectivity. You buy something with very low expectations and the fact that the darn thing even works surprises you. The next thing you know it's the best thing since sliced bread. After the initial satisfaction that the thing worked in the first place you start realizing that there is more to satisfaction than the temporary euphoria of "Hey, it didn't blow up!"
Buddha,
If what you're saying is even remotely true than after all these years and all the great music that as been played in NYC's Avery Fisher Hall someone, somewhere would have said "My, this place doesn't sound all that bad."
Buddha,you make a very good argument here.I am no shrink but
i quess it's our brain,eventually "flitering" in/out certain aspects of the audio reproduction to make it more accomodating.In a few words,if a system is,say,bass shy,our
brain compensates in a way for this,to make it more acceptable.Make no mistake,the faults are still there,we just ignore them.
I know, because enough people have chimed in about Triangles and the Cometes I own, but I have heard about 6 different models in my home to know they are excellent.
I have some crap AR bookshelves (from the newer AR company from about 4 years ago?) bedroom sys. that are crap, filtering or no.
My 25 year old JBL L-15s keep holding my attention as well for mini-monitors. Just when I think they are "not very good" I put one of JA's piano discs on and think, "yes, they are very good"! Snobbery out the window.
I do the same thing with my equally as old AR58, 3-way with 11 1/2" woofers in my computer system and know why I have kept them so long. The music played through them just sounds "good" to me. Maybe not the nth degree of air and detail, but I am tapping my feet to no matter what I generally play.
My hearing is so bad I have given my Cometes with a Sextan center channel to the home theater room where my wife and son mostly reside. The dialog clairity is not lost on me, nor is it when my wife says, "those sound pretty nice, don't they"? Really!!!!!!
On Sunday I'll get to hear the sound of Brian Urlacher putting his helmut on somebody, big time. It may sound good, but not feel good for the recipient!
Go Bears. Make up for the dismal Cubs, my fav team.
Regards,
I'm afraid Buddha, that when it sounds like crap at the outset and gets better over time, you may have fallen victim to the well known Heitz Cellar effect - improvement being directionally proportional to the quality and amount of the wine being poured.
We audiophiles sure are fun, aren't we, always inclined to outthink ourselves.
Cheers,
It could be a combo of A & B, or something else entirely. Relativity may have a lot to do with it. Yes, you may be adjusting to the sound of the system -- it just might be that you're not used to the presentation. Are you going in with expectations of what it "should" sound like? It's possible after spending some time with it, it may have been more "right" than other systems, and subtle hints at its trueness were becoming more apparent over time. Who knows? I leave my system fired up to maintain burn-in and thermal stability, and my rig still sounds different at various points in the day. We're humans, and not rigid machines. We're the greater variable, with moods and diet potentially affecting perception (I'll stop before I get into May Belt territory.) It's great to get great sound, but, enjoying great music is most important. If it's the system or you adjusting, does it really matter?
Hi Buddha,
Could be a combo of brain and change in electronics.
I once visited a friend and he had just turned on his system and we started talking. After about 30 minutes, in a matter of seconds, the soundstage just opened up, like wow man. Oh, he explained, that happens all the time.
As a suggestion Buddha, turn on your system, start the music and walk away, out of listening range for 30 minutes. Then come back and listen, see what you think?
Just a thought.
Cheers.
Saludos, amigos.
Monty:
I agree wholeheartedly about the joys of "sounds better than it has a right to."
That's what Mike and I shoot for at CES/THE.
I get the joy from cheap stuff that sounds better than it ought to, and vintage gear that makes people say, "Hey, I used to have one of those. Dang, I wish I'd never sold it."
Although my current budget is written in such bright red ink that it would get a PG-13 rating based on color content alone, I wanna check out that Trends TA-10 Mini Class T Stereo Amplifier for 140 or so dineros and see if it gives me that feeling.
Of all the reviewers, I think Wes Phillips seem to really convey that special joy of an over-achieving component.
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Jan:
It was your AM radio post that made me want to find a way to make this post. I loved that post of yours.
Once, on a family trip, I had to run an errand late one night and thought our POS Chrysler minivan had the radio on as I drove. A cover version of "Moonlight Mile" came on and the singer's voice was just 'perfectly palpable.' He was singing right to me through space, time, and windshield - it was killer.
It reminded me of how much I love that song.
I stopped and went into a store and when I came out, the same song played, and I thought, WTF? Turned out it was the CD player and we had been playing that House of Blues disc with all the Rolling Stone covers. After the tune ended, it even made me suddenly enjoy the other tunes even more. That first little exoerience lubed me up to relax and let the disc get through to me in a way that I hadn't even appreciated at home.
I've had that experience in that car a few more times, too, but now I notice it's purely an "emphasis on the vocal range thing." I think that Chrysler must have a pretty genius person deciding on a few of their car equalization curves!
(No endorsement of Chrysler Motor Corp or its sound quality implied or inferred.)
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Jazzfan:
I wonder if you could ask people about the sound of that hall at the end of a concert vs. the beginning.
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Yiangos:
I think that ability to "fill in sound" that audiphiles lack and women and other music lovers are able to do with ease.
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Cheapskate:
I agree, the "Heitz Effect" is an invaluable audiophile tool.
It ranks right up there with the "Panama Red Shift."
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Jeff:
You reminded me of a favorite quote that I like to apply to unexpected differences in the sound of my gear from evening to evening:
"You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"
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301:
I'm gonna do just as you suggest.
My preamp (AR LS-26, tube) and power amp (solid-state Audire Forte) definitely take 15-20 minutes to warm up and deliver optimal sound quality. I also think that when there are other people around, and things going on, it can be difficult at first to mellow out and get into the state of mind where you start to filter out those distractions and focus on the music.
Personally, though, I find it difficult to really evaluate a system in any meaningful way unless I am listening alone, or at least with silence in the room and no distractions (and to my own familiar source material, LP or CD/SACD).
Ideally, I would like to audition a new component in my system, but it is seldom possible these days where I live. Fortunately, though, I can go to Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica and they have a system there that has most of the same components as mine; this makes it a lot easier to get an idea of what is what when trying to audition a new component under consideration.
I enjoy reading the posts and comments in this forum.
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