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bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Vinyl resurgence will be released on CD only.

rvance
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

There will be no pictures of you and Dup
pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
or trying to slide that Legacy Whisper into a stolen ambulance.
NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
or report from 29 districts.
The Resurgence will not be televised.

KBK
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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There will be no pictures of you and Dup
pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
or trying to slide that Legacy Whisper into a stolen ambulance.
NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
or report from 29 districts.
The Resurgence will not be televised.

And that is exactly what we're up against--again. Took 200 years...but it's back. Now that the rape of the land is over and the slack can no longer be given and the rape is once again...no longer hidden in the gaps. It's back.

rvance
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

CD Players, iPods and Music Servers will no longer be so damned relevant, and
audiophiles will not care if Dup finally gets down with
Ethan on Search for Digital because Vinyl people
will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
The Resurgence will not be televised.

bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Vinyl resurgence will be transferred to CD via USB output and peddled by Michael Fremmer as the best thing since sliced bread.

The resurgence may not be televised, but it will be available on youtube.

ethanwiner
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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The resurgence may not be televised, but it will be available on youtube.


In all its 64 kbps glory!

Buddha
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

Quote:
The resurgence may not be televised, but it will be available on youtube.


In all its 64 kbps glory!

Ha!

Maybe for you.

I have an all analog computer.

bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Crank it, baby! Crank it!!!

struts
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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I have an all analog computer.

Go Buddha, go!

Buddha
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Yeah, baby!

This is what I call a "digital" tool:

Have I told this joke before? ---->

How do you break an audiophile's finger?

Punch him in the nose.

bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Cap'n! The ship! She canna take it that much!!!!

mrlowry
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

Quote:
I have an all analog computer.

Go Buddha, go!

The amazing thing is that a basic cell phone today has more computing power. That's not an exaggeration by the way.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

This image is a perfect notation on what vinyl is to digital today. 21st century, 1 TB of storage from Iomega is $189. about a 6" long 1" thick box!!! Let's do 1 TB of storage in analog, how many blocks will it take for some relay, relay logic driven by tubes and some nice Ferrox Cube ferrite core memory...I used to use Controllers with Ferox Cube memory!!! It at one time was a Philips company also....Yeah, lets go back to that!!! Vinyl is STILL DEAD...just like last week. There is no RESURGENCE, more like a disruption in logic. If it takes $100,000 of a spinning platter, to do what a cheap optical DIGITAL disc can do, it's gotta be obsolete and useless. Hell, even with teh use of vacuum tubes in Hbrid ckts the tubes are only about $12 each, hardly much, and they do their job flawlessly. If it takes a $100,000 machine to extract the data off a vinyl media, the media is flawed, obsolete, and don't forget the vacuum cleaning nmachine, snap crackle pop. Was that MF's picture on the latest Rice Crispies Box?
Then when MF does digital, he can't hear right and thinks a miswired, flawed CD player sounds great!!! How come he doesn't put his video out on ANALOG 8MM film, instead of DIGITAL DVD?

rvance
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

The Resurgence will not be televised, will not be televised,
will not be televised, will not be televised.
The Resurgence will be no re-run brothers;
The Resurgence will be live.

Buddha
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
This image is a perfect notation on what vinyl is to digital today. 21st century, 1 TB of storage from Iomega is $189. about a 6" long 1" thick box!!! Let's do 1 TB of storage in analog, how many blocks will it take for some relay, relay logic driven by tubes and some nice Ferrox Cube ferrite core memory...I used to use Controllers with Ferox Cube memory!!! It at one time was a Philips company also....Yeah, lets go back to that!!! Vinyl is STILL DEAD...just like last week. There is no RESURGENCE, more like a disruption in logic. If it takes $100,000 of a spinning platter, to do what a cheap optical DIGITAL disc can do, it's gotta be obsolete and useless. Hell, even with teh use of vacuum tubes in Hbrid ckts the tubes are only about $12 each, hardly much, and they do their job flawlessly. If it takes a $100,000 machine to extract the data off a vinyl media, the media is flawed, obsolete, and don't forget the vacuum cleaning nmachine, snap crackle pop. Was that MF's picture on the latest Rice Crispies Box?
Then when MF does digital, he can't hear right and thinks a miswired, flawed CD player sounds great!!! How come he doesn't put his video out on ANALOG 8MM film, instead of DIGITAL DVD?

If vinyl is dead, how come you persist in acting like a broken record?

Digital, mattoreo, wattsslam, tick...Digital, mattoreo, wattslam, tick...Digital, mattoreo, wattslam, tick...

tomjtx
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

If vinyl is dead, how come you persist in acting like a broken record?

Digital, mattoreo, wattsslam, tick...Digital, mattoreo, wattslam, tick...Digital, mattoreo, wattslam, tick...

LOL. Buddha, I owe you a drink for that one.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Trying to build a better America for our children? Orrrr, just trying to make a better life for our own ears? Or I want to spend more time with my DSD? Vinyl is the LIPSTICK wearing PIG of the audio world, you can put LIPSTICK on a vinyl record , and that will only screw up the grooves. I think I finally found out MF calling, he is the makeup artist who keeps trying different shades of LIPSTICK on a PIG........and it's still a LP RECORD PIG.

smejias
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The Vinyl Revival


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Earlier this summer, 22-year-old Erik Olson, of Grand Rapids, sold off his entire collection of CDs so he could invest in a new music format he finds way more satisfying -- thrilling even.

Vinyl.

dbowker
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

Stephen, don't try and muddy DUP's waters by actually citing evidence! DUP is the only one that provides "facts" around here! At least I think they must be around here some where... or are those his marbles he's lost?

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I like beating dead vinyl, why bother the dead horse?

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

Evidence of what? Of one guy buying a few records, man, the record inustry is making a comeback!!!! Sears, and K-Mart are stocking up, to sell $30 records!!!!! Don't think so...fads come and go, it's a novelty for teens....the Kodak Instamatic camera is coming back too, can't stand those crystal clear digital imagaes, need some fuzz in my pictures, and I can get FIL developed and wait a few days and see how many didn't come out, and the FLASH CUBE is back!!!!

dbowker
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

"can't stand those crystal clear digital imagaes"

I guess you hadn't noticed that the VAST majority of consumer digital cameras take pictures that are fuzzy and overly grainy with little to no ability to handle low light. Sure, a $900 digital SLR is great, but a $200 point and shoot- no better than those insta-matics, except now you get to keep 3000 grainy pix on your hard drive. Yeah, that's progress.

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

The lens still matters don't it? On the cheap cameras, they certainly do not handle low light. BUT, let's keep developing film, yeah that's real convienent. And a waste of time and money. DIGITAL makes teh world a more efficient, better, easier to use place. At least the DIGITAL cmaeras if you spend the money you get top end results, that beats anything, if you pay top dollar for a RECORD, it still is mediocre, wears out in each use, probably WARPED out of teh wrapper, and how much does a playback spinning platter need to be to get all this great sound? MF says $100,000 is just fine...let's get one. I have a pretty good, actually better than pretty good VPI with the JMW arms, SACD beats VINYL, and I have a very good phono pre amp, etc etc. DSD beats VINYL always, just like a 1968 Chevy is obsolete so are RECORDS. LP fad has about 5 years to go....marketeers are just getting the last few dollar$ out of the nudnicks. Just like diet fads, or which exercise machine are you buying this month from the infomercial?

michaelavorgna
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

Crystal clear balls aside for the moment, let

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

It's about the SOUND, lifelike, REAL, DYNAMIC. Digital has it, records constrict it. If ya want something good to carress and look at, nature provides it already in a much better living thing. Vinyl is dead, don't fight the grim reaper. It has been around 50 years, and hasn't improved, it still is snap crackly pop, if you don't bady it, clean it, and it wears out with every use. Dead I tell you DEAD. Now jump up and flip the dead plastic to play teh other side of Dinosaur media. And it comes from oil which makes it truly old, even more than 50. And being old doesn't mean it's better. Means it's old. Some things have been around a long long time and work well. Records ain't one of em, they have been replaced with better over the years. Snap crackle pop is for breakfast only.

smejias
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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Vinyl is dead, don't fight the grim reaper. It has been around 50 years, and hasn't improved, it still is snap crackly pop, if you don't bady it, clean it, and it wears out with every use. Dead I tell you DEAD.

If there are any kids out there -- or, for that matter, anyone who might simply be interested in getting into vinyl -- please don't believe this man. This talk about "snap crackly pop" is BS.

I recently picked up several used records from the Princeton Record Exchange -- many of these from the '60s and '70s -- and they are clean and dead-quiet. A seriously beautiful thing. Yes, you will have to take care of them, but once you have them, you will WANT to take care of them. Why wouldn't you want to take care of something you love?

dbowker
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

DUP is the audio equivalent to the guy on the corner with the sign that says The END is NEAR!!! Entertaining perhaps, but not exactly someone to get advice from.

Yeah, every time I hear the snap, crackle argument I laugh. Not something I hear on my rig, and most of my LPs are older than 5 years, some 35 years!

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

I have hundreds and hundreds of LP's ORIGINALS from 60's 70's EJ Korvettes, Sam Goody ETC, some are very quiet, they get VPI'd 16.5 Many are simply noisey inherent background NOISE!! All teh cleaning doesn't help. Me thinks you might have a limited response playback system which is masking the FAULTS...really, not one of them "must not be revealing enough" mantras about wires either. I can hear noises in teh LP's that ain't music, it's the system, it is obsolete, inherently noisey, play an SACD of teh same recordings, versus teh LP, LP is unlistenable, no dynamics, noise, etc. Steven do you have an SACD DVD-A playback setup, have you heard what SACD can do?

michaelavorgna
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

I think you meant to say - it's about the music. If taken at face value you appear to listen to sound effects. SLAM!

Hey wait a minute - did you used to eat rice krispie's while watching the old Batman TV show?

Buddha
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

Man, when my kid was two, he would watch Winnie the Pooh over and over.

He had what seemed to be an infinite tolerance for repetition.

Eventually, he became able to figure out things in a more linear manner and outgrew his endless repetition phase.

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

I never liked Winnie the POOH, what the f' is a friggin POOH anyway? At least Bugs Bunny or Sylvester the Cat where REAL....a friggin Pooh? Huh. Tweetie Pie was cooool, a friggin POOH?

rvance
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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what the f' is a friggin POOH anyway?

It's what you've been depositing on these forums for 3 years at an average of over 3 a day. Kind of sick, huh?

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

And counting POOH is OK? 3 a day seems a bit excessive, are you sure? I demand a RECOUNT.

judicata
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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I never liked Winnie the POOH, what the f' is a friggin POOH anyway?

Ok, DUP, you can make fun of vinyl, wire, tubes, and everything else all day. But Winnie? You're crossing a line, DUP.

You're entering a world of pain. A world of pain...

rvance
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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And counting POOH is OK? 3 a day seems a bit excessive, are you sure? I demand a RECOUNT.

Lots of watts, lots of drivers, lots of POOH.

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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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If there are any kids out there -- or, for that matter, anyone who might simply be interested in getting into vinyl -- please don't believe this man. This talk about "snap crackly pop" is BS.

I recently picked up several used records from the Princeton Record Exchange -- many of these from the '60s and '70s -- and they are clean and dead-quiet. A seriously beautiful thing. Yes, you will have to take care of them, but once you have them, you will WANT to take care of them. Why wouldn't you want to take care of something you love?

You mean cleaning records, right?

It's, uh, more than a little to ask of said target audience to clean their records. At all.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but to say that DUP's complaints are unfounded while saying "well, yeah, you've gotta take care of them..." is throwing a serious amount of dust (ahem) under the rug. And for that matter, many people (myself included) have been hit by the rice crispies, sometimes with brand new records.

I'd bet you that out of all the new vinyl lovers in Texas, the number of them that have actually bought a RCM or a reasonably good cleaning system could fit comfortably into a family home. For listeners concerned about pops and ticks, is a cleaning system necessary, or not?

That said, fewer people smoke now - or sniff, for that matter - or use ceramic cartridges, but I'm sure people are using vintage tables without replacing the stylus, and/or are storing records in their garages or attics. Stuff like that is going to affect sound quality far more than cleaning regimens.

CECE
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

4 out of 4 found POOH won, Mc/Focal lost. Power to POOH,

ethanwiner
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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Eventually, he became able to figure out things in a more linear manner and outgrew his endless repetition phase.

LOL, I've watched the movie Pleasantville at least 20 times. Still not sick of it.

--Ethan

rvance
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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LOL, I've watched the movie Pleasantville at least 20 times. Still not sick of it.

--Ethan

That explains so much!

bifcake
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

Once Ethan gets sick of Pleasantville, he'll move on to Groundhog's day.

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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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Once Ethan gets sick of Pleasantville, he'll move on to Groundhog's day.


I've seen Groundhog Day at least a dozen times. Little Shop of Horrors and Shrek 2 also. All of these are movies that I like every moment of every scene. I can watch them again and again.

Maybe this means I'm senile?

--Ethan

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Re: The Vinyl Revival


Quote:

Quote:
Once Ethan gets sick of Pleasantville, he'll move on to Groundhog's day.


I've seen Groundhog Day at least a dozen times. Little Shop of Horrors and Shrek 2 also. All of these are movies that I like every moment of every scene. I can watch them again and again.

Maybe this means I'm senile?

--Ethan

Maybe it means objectivists are really slow on the uptake?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

It must really have something to do with how objectivists are so into "repeatability," eh?

rvance
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

HAPPY BUDDHA BIRTHDAY BOY!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1PAx5Ycwo

smejias
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


Quote:

Quote:
If there are any kids out there -- or, for that matter, anyone who might simply be interested in getting into vinyl -- please don't believe this man. This talk about "snap crackly pop" is BS.

I recently picked up several used records from the Princeton Record Exchange -- many of these from the '60s and '70s -- and they are clean and dead-quiet. A seriously beautiful thing. Yes, you will have to take care of them, but once you have them, you will WANT to take care of them. Why wouldn't you want to take care of something you love?

You mean cleaning records, right?

No, I was just talking about handling them carefully, putting them back in their sleeves afterwards, storing them properly, not using them as coasters or frisbees. That's all.

For anyone who wants to get into vinyl, I'd recommend purchasing a $20 anti-static brush like the ones from AcousTech or Hunt. Use it on a record before each play, or whenever you feel like it. It'll remove any superficial dust or debris and will result in quieter play.

If you happen to have a lot of very dirty, moldy records like I do, or if you do a lot of hunting for used records from garage sales or thrift shops, a record cleaning machine will be very useful. But that can come later.

Axon
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Re: The Vinyl Revival

OK, that's not terribly objectionable. That's what I tell my relatives.

Still, it's very hard to argue that properly cared-for vinyl is completely free of pops and ticks - I hope that's not what you are ultimately advocating.

smejias
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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OK, that's not terribly objectionable. That's what I tell my relatives.

Still, it's very hard to argue that properly cared-for vinyl is completely free of pops and ticks - I hope that's not what you are ultimately advocating.

Pops and ticks exist. Sometimes. Not always. And most often, in my experience at least, they don't detract from the music. It's easy to separate the two -- just as one might filter other randoms sounds (street noise, refrigerator fans, voices, whatever) from the music.

It's difficult for me to understand why these "pops and ticks" are so troublesome for some listeners.

Perhaps it has something to do with the type of music they most listen to. Perhaps it has something to do with the way they listen. Maybe their systems aren't properly set-up. Maybe they've had extremely bad luck with vinyl. I don't know.

dbowker
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


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OK, that's not terribly objectionable. That's what I tell my relatives.

Still, it's very hard to argue that properly cared-for vinyl is completely free of pops and ticks - I hope that's not what you are ultimately advocating.

I have to say, of the 600+ records I have at least 70% are so free of noise it can be said there is none. I'm not a fanatic about cleaning, mostly fiber brush or quick spray and sweep. Mostly it's just about not picking up your lps with greasy, or food dusted hands- and not leaving them laying around. But I don't do that with CDs either. The ones that have some noise are usually used and very old, or have a few random pops etc. Sure, a bit annoying, but the actual music sounds so much better than a CD version it's a small price to pay. I think old players with bad needles and ill-cared for records DID (or do) sound like crap, and if it's that much trouble then that kind of person should go with CD.

I heard that when AlexO's CDs get smudged he just gives it a shine with his shiny head, and a brush-off with his pointy goatee.

Buddha
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


Quote:

Quote:
OK, that's not terribly objectionable. That's what I tell my relatives.

Still, it's very hard to argue that properly cared-for vinyl is completely free of pops and ticks - I hope that's not what you are ultimately advocating.

Pops and ticks exist. Sometimes. Not always. And most often, in my experience at least, they don't detract from the music. It's easy to separate the two -- just as one might filter other randoms sounds (street noise, refrigerator fans, voices, whatever) from the music.

It's difficult for me to understand why these "pops and ticks" are so troublesome for some listeners.

Perhaps it has something to do with the type of music they most listen to. Perhaps it has something to do with the way they listen. Maybe their systems aren't properly set-up. Maybe they've had extremely bad luck with vinyl. I don't know.

"Pops and ticks" is part of our new "gotcha" culture. Whenever some modern idiot decides he has a thought about a topic, all he now needs to do is find a ESPN-style catch phrase and he thinks he's rebutted an entire concept. "Pops and ticks" is the equivalent of yelling "blow job" whenever someone mentions anything about Bill Clinton. The "pops and ticks" contigent is the Westboro Baptist Church of trying to talk about vinyl on this forum.

bifcake
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


Quote:

I heard that when AlexO's CDs get smudged he just gives it a shine with his shiny head, and a brush-off with his pointy goatee.

I do indeed... I do indeed.

Axon
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Re: The Vinyl Revival


Quote:
Pops and ticks exist. Sometimes. Not always. And most often, in my experience at least, they don't detract from the music. It's easy to separate the two -- just as one might filter other randoms sounds (street noise, refrigerator fans, voices, whatever) from the music.

I agree that, for all the music I've listened to on vinyl, when it hasn't been treated poorly, it is not objectionable. If I never ran another click removal routine in software on the vinyl I record, I'd still be pretty happy with the results.

But on a purely factual basis - pops and ticks always exist. Every piece of new vinyl I've owned has had them (and as I understand I've been pretty lucky with the quality of vinyl I've obtained). Sometimes they're audible right in the middle of a loud song; often times they are audible in quiet sections; they always exist between tracks.

The lack of extant cleanroom facilities in the laquer manufacturing and pressing stages of vinyl production, from what I understand, virtually guarantees that low level pops and ticks will occur to some degree. Dust on laquer = noise. Lack of cleanroom suits while cutting/plating laquer = dust on laquer. QED.


Quote:
It's difficult for me to understand why these "pops and ticks" are so troublesome for some listeners.

Perhaps it has something to do with the type of music they most listen to. Perhaps it has something to do with the way they listen. Maybe their systems aren't properly set-up. Maybe they've had extremely bad luck with vinyl. I don't know.

To be sure, I don't think many people actually care that much about pops/ticks. I, for all my bellyaching on the subject, certainly accept them gladly with the used classical vinyl I listen to. The "frigid listener" (heh) might be more of a rhetorical tool than an actual demographic.

Have any of us actually met people who a) have listened to vinyl as a format and b) didn't like it because of the noise?

Again, what's getting my goat is the equivocation between "there aren't any pops and ticks if you're doing it right" and "the pops and ticks are not important". And the subtle smear that if you do hear pops and ticks, that something is wrong with you, or the vinyl, or your system. Frankly, that just seems to suggest that such defense of vinyl comes from people who are either distorting the truth to protect the reputation of the format, or do not have adequately high-quality playback systems to detect them. It's a little demeaning.

I've ran into real situations where I've wanted to crank up the volume as high as it will go to listen to some background detail, and - surprise, surprise - it was completely drowned out on the virgin, brand-spanking-new vinyl by the record hiss, and the pops and ticks, while on the CD it was clearly audible. Mind you, this was with an equal, all-analog production/mastering process on both formats.

All vinyl has pops and ticks, no matter what the pressing quality or the playback system. If you try hard enough, you will find them on any record out there. Sometimes they can be resolved through changes in equipment or in pressing, and sometimes there's absolutely no way around them. What's more important is that the music itself tends not to be distracted by such distortions, and that critical, concentrated listening is still quite possible (some would say preferrable) on LPs.

That said, it sounds like all of you mostly agree with that already; I just wanted to make it clear that one doesn't have to have something wrong to hear pops and ticks all the time. And I tend to agree with Buddha that "pops and ticks" is a terrible term to use regularly, but I'm not sure if the discussion can be steered to "transient noise" which is arguably a better term.

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