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CECE
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There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

They are just milking some dollar$ out of some fool$ Do you think after analog tv transmissions are turned off next year, they will have a resurgence, and turn a few towers back on, and call it a resurgence, how the analog FUZZ looked so much warmer, than modern HD clarity and brings back nostalgia? Move on, the vinyl record is a dead media. Funny how Capital is doing it, when they can't even keep their own bldgs up and survive. http://fromthecapitolvaults.com/main.htm

smejias
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

The first box of Capitol Records re-issues arrived at the Stereophile office last week. This is pretty cool because JA, Robert, and I had been discussing how terrible it was that, while more and more music lovers seem to be moving towards vinyl, the industry hadn't responded by sending LP samples to reviewers. And then what do you know?

I purchased Radiohead's Kid A just a couple of days ago and listened to the first disc late last night. It doesn't sound as dynamic and open as some recordings, but sounds very good, nevertheless. (I'll have to give it another listen, when I'm more awake.) And I was thrilled to see it on 10" vinyl, in a beautiful gatefold package. Very nice.

I'm excited over the opportunity to hear records that I had neglected the first time around -- like Kid A and Amnesiac -- on vinyl! And also looking forward to hearing some of my old favorites on vinyl for the first time.

Look out for some vinyl reviews in upcoming issues of Stereophile, possibly as soon as our November issue.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I thought that Radiohead's "In Rainbows" was stunning on vinyl. It reminded me of an update of Alan Parson's work. My girls (21 and 31) almost did backflips when they heard how good it was vs. their mp3s.

Dave

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

That whole vinyl "resurgence" is all fine and dandy with me. I really couldn't care less. I think it's a fad anyway, so let the kids play. However, if I start seeing an inordinate amount of vinyl reviews in Stereophile, I'll have to take a subscription hiatus. Vinyl reviews just bore the hell out of me. I have no interest in it at all. I skip over the Anal Log corner and even as much as I enjoy AD's writings, I have been bored to tears in recent months with his turntable and cartridge tinkering descriptions.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
That whole vinyl "resurgence" is all fine and dandy with me. I really couldn't care less. I think it's a fad anyway, so let the kids play. However, if I start seeing an inordinate amount of vinyl reviews in Stereophile, I'll have to take a subscription hiatus. Vinyl reviews just bore the hell out of me. I have no interest in it at all. I skip over the Anal Log corner and even as much as I enjoy AD's writings, I have been bored to tears in recent months with his turntable and cartridge tinkering descriptions.

Your loss.

bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I don't think so. I have listened to a number of analog rigs and they don't do anything for me. I don't see what all the hoopla is about.

smejias
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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Vinyl reviews just bore the hell out of me.

A lot of the vinyl material can also be found on compact disc, Alex. You might miss out on something you'd enjoy.

bifcake
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I don't mean the material. Record reviews are the same as CD reviews. I'm talking about the gear.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

No 'resurgence?'

Ask Donald, Dick, and W about that.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

As usual, methinks he doth protest a bit too much.

If there truly is no resurgence, which either way wouldn't actually matter to you, ensconced in your digital world, why do you spend so much time fighting it? Are you afraid us vinyl lovers will take aways your DSD files? Hey we just love our music, and enjoy it more when it's 12" round- no-one's looking to try and bring about the end of bits.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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No 'resurgence?'

Ask Donald, Dick, and W about that.

I think you got that confused with "res-erection"

linden518
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

DUmP. I love how, just to prove you wrong AGAIN, NY Times also ran an article on vinyl resurgence this past week. I don't care if you hate vinyl, nor do most of the people here. If you like digital better, like AlexO & many others, I perfectly respect that as your personal decision & preference. But to deny what's going on just goes to prove - yet again - that your opinions don't really come from a sane & objective place. No big surprise. Sorry DUmP.

rvance
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

My girlfriend's 29 year old son just emailed me a few weeks ago and asked for recommendations on an entry level vinyl rig. I told him to post on the Stereophile forums for good advice. He came to this decision on his own, despite the convenience of his iPod.

I'm pretty immersed in 2 and multi-channel hi-res (since 2000) and am disappointed from the lack of support for the digital formats- but love what I get from my system.

My audio/vinyl rig is modest (vintage Philips 212/Grado and I need a new phono amp) but I love the satisfaction of spinning a black circle and getting hi-fi old school.

I love all formats and am grateful we have such a variety of sources to explore. Better than less choices, so why the needless rancor?

This need to be "the best" or have "the best" is often a reflection of ill-perceived self-worth and has nothing to do with the enjoyment of music.

mikeymad
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

"Move on, the vinyl record is a dead media."

If anyone is making a record, it is not dead.
If anyone is buying a new record, it is not dead.
If anyone is making a record player, it is not dead.
If anyone is buying a new record player, it is not dead.

If it is not dead, then it must be alive.

When I mean dead it has to be dead. There are no new 8-track players being made, there are no new 8-track tapes being made. That is dead.

Cheers,

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

What DIGITAL equipment are they using to re mix, re master the "vinyl"....cus if they are dumping big bucks into some obsolete reel systems, it's a dead end retarded move. Since Capital Records can't even keep their own building, as they introduce obsolete vinyl for another go round, you can see how they did themselves in. What the music industry needs in MUSIC to record in the first place, not the crap they try to sell calling it music. There isn't a recording worth looking into on that Capital ad anyway, how many times can they re issue the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over, how many versions of Pet Sounds is there? $30 for something that wears out on each play is not very smart, SACD will play better, easier, and sound better, what the magazine should do is compare all these reissues with no bias, and see CD or SACD version compared to the vinyl...., snap crackle pop, better set up the record cleaner machine first. I have hundreds and hundreds of LP's, there is no thrill....Many are pristine, from way back originals, not re issues, and a lot of new heavy vinyl, there is no need, CD, SACD, DVD-A, is always better, always. snap crackle pop, time to flip the record....

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Look at teh numbers, it's a fad, nothing more, talk to 10 people off teh street, and ask them how many vinyl LPs they bought this week, a fad for a minor few......

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

No, technology improves how things work, ease of use, better functioanlity, spinning a large black disc, when it can be done easier, on Cd or SACD makes more sense, then a while back some super nudnick tried to say 78s sound good....how far backwards do you want to take it all? As teh orginal master tapes are falling apart due to old age, the stuff is all getting saved onto digital media...so wouldn't all teh vinly pundits have to cringe when they find out, all the source material is from a digital hard drive, and they just put it onto a vinyl slab to sell to the ones who are ill informed that they think it sounds better.....how does an inferior media sound better than a superior media format, like trying to say teh old analog tv broadcasts are better than HDTV.... 1961 Chevy Belair is better than a modern car.....wake up nudnicks.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!
linden518
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
http://www.dccblowout.com/showpages.asp?pid=1187


I love how you counter arguments from CNN, New York Times, GQ, Washington Times, CBS Early Show, etc. with... (wait for it)... dccblowout.com. LOL. Bravo, tiger, bravo.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Gotta join the dupster here! Although I don't care what format people choose to buy their music on, I just don't understand the love affair with vinyl, at ALL! Snap, crackle, pop -that's all I get from it. I do appreciate the mechanical beauty of a well-designed turntable and I can still enjoy my old LP's that I have not been able to replace, but as far as sound quality is concerned, give me the CD version, PLEASE!

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
then a while back some super nudnick tried to say 78s sound good....


Technically speaking a 78 could sound better because at the higher speed the physical wavelength recorded onto the record is longer making it easier to manufacture accurately especially on the inner grooves.

mikeymad
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Agreed cycle.... you sould be able to get higher fidelity with a 78 if it was mastered and cut right. I guess that is why some of those remasters and 180g+ pressings are at 45rpm. For the increased fidelity of the higher speed. It is like cranking the speed up on the recording tape.

oh, and I ignored most of the other things said above (and didn't follow yet another link).

Cheers,

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Riiiight, a 78 could sound better...another brilliant conclusion. Check into how the grooves are cut, the recording that was used for the old 78's. How fast did the Edison cylinder spin, maybe we should go way back. Was WAX the ultimate media? The highest fidelity was the original grunt of a caveman, or the pounding on a hollow log. There was less ambient noise, no electrical interferences, as long as it wasn't a thunderstorm, or a Godzilla chasing the first studio musician at Stone and Rock ave. 78s "could sound superior" Why not have a 78 "resurgence". Crank up those Emerson, DuMont all in one hi fi machines.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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Riiiight, a 78 could sound better...another brilliant conclusion. Check into how the grooves are cut, the recording that was used for the old 78's. How fast did the Edison cylinder spin, maybe we should go way back. Was WAX the ultimate media? The highest fidelity was the original grunt of a caveman, or the pounding on a hollow log. There was less ambient noise, no electrical interferences, as long as it wasn't a thunderstorm, or a Godzilla chasing the first studio musician at Stone and Rock ave. 78s "could sound superior" Why not have a 78 "resurgence". Crank up those Emerson, DuMont all in one hi fi machines.

Let's go back further...

judicata
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

DUP: Sure. And the hand-cranked machines are best, because it takes the powerline out of the equation!

In all seriousness, though, DUP, can you get excited about any improvements in digital technology and share them with us? I know there are more improvements made to a digital media/equipment in a given year than to analog.

How about you get passionate about loving something, rather than hating something else?

I listen to music because it makes me happy. Given that, it is interesting that the vinyl people on this board appear happier than you are. But, of course that doesn't matter, because they're deluded, right?

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
DUP: Sure. And the hand-cranked machines are best, because it takes the powerline out of the equation!

But of course you will need the upgraded cyro treated, beryllium copper main spring in order eliminate the odd order harmonics created by the standard spring.

rvance
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
Let's go back further...

Brilliant technology, AlexO! The beak/neck tonearm offers tangential tracking and the turtle plinth has fantastic suspension qualities. The base and platter are probably as solid as a slab of granite, too.

Fred Flinstone is an audiophile!

cyclebrain
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

PETA wants to know what you are doing with the birds after there stylus/beaks become worn. Is the HiFi industry creating a huge number of unwanted, homeless, worn beak, birds? Analog is cruel, switch to digital now.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

This nonsense has got me thinking.
It's time for a new media.
Yes, a very niche market, but that means very high prices.
There are some very devoted vinyl analog listeners out there. How about offering them the vinyl that they love but with improvements? Higher rotational speeds along with constant linear velocity (RPMs change with radius of pickup). There's lots of presses out there not being used that could be used to manufacture the new format.
If there's people out there buying $65,000 turntables, then there is a market for my new improved record. And for improved separation, how about separate parallel grooves for the right and left channel? Create the need for twice as many cartridges. And while I'm at it, maybe I should revisit the RIAA curve. With a new improved curve we would all need new phono preamps. Wow this great for stimulating the audio market. Now anybody have any capital?

judicata
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


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Now anybody have any capital?

I hear you can make a mint in the housing market.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Music on DSD is an even happier maker....DSD 2X is happier yet, modern Digital, a thing of beauty, sonic masterpiece. Go forward, not backwrds, be happy, don't worry. DSD always sounds better, less work, better sound.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Being deluded, one is happy, they don't know any better. It's nature's happy pill. Ignorance is bliss, ain't it? Speaking of happy, today was a happy day, I love it when I'm right. Watts and drivers, drivers and watts, it matters.

ethanwiner
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
If there's people out there buying $65,000 turntables


I always wondered if anyone actually buys those. Does anyone here have any idea of total sales for turntables that cost, say, $5,000 and up?

--Ethan

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

Quote:
If there's people out there buying $65,000 turntables


I always wondered if anyone actually buys those. Does anyone here have any idea of total sales for turntables that cost, say, $5,000 and up?

--Ethan

Most manufacturers don't disclose specific numbers mostly because they are privately held and they don't have too. But if people weren't buying them the manufacturers wouldn't be making them and the number of manufacturers in that segment of the market wouldn't be exploding.

RGibran
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

Exploding?

Could you tell us your idea of "exploding"?

RG

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
But if people weren't buying them the manufacturers wouldn't be making them and the number of manufacturers in that segment of the market wouldn't be exploding.


I have no opinion either way, I'm just curious about sales. I imagine some people see ads for very expensive products, not just turntables, and think, "Hey, I ought to do that!" I always imagined these people would be thrilled to sell even one unit, but I have no idea. I assume the real "explosion" in turntables sales is under $200 models for the DJ and karaoke market.

--Ethan

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I think there are hints as to how the market for high end is doing.

Schroder tonearms have a two year or so waiting time for a buyer, so figure at least one per week and you have at least 100 customers waiting for one of those fine pieces of audio art at any given moment. Pretty damn good!

Continuum stated somewhere that they are not able to meet demand, whatever that means.

Clearaudio is doing well enough to launch major room displays and demos at pretty much every Hi Fi show.

No way to say anything in detail, but...

It seems that it takes about 50,000 avid aficionados of a hobby to support a "convention," like Barbie collectors, Hot Wheels, Disney pins, Precious Moments, etc...

So, I'd bet there's 50,000 dedicated vinyl heads floating around, jus based on sales at shows and the degree of inclusion of vinyl in shows.

I ask people I meet at work about their interests, and I catch a 'record collector/listener' about once per week - maybe 1/2 of one percent of random strangers.

Of the 89 million adult males, aged 20-64, I figure about 50 million likely have the ability to work and have the ability to buy stuff. (I may be overestimating... ...)

So, my own 1/2 of one percent notion would yield 250,000 people who are specifically interested in vinyl.

Of those, I guess 10% would be potential new vinyl buyers and have the wherewithall to learn about the internet or local record stores...so, 25,000 potential buyers for any new release.

I did not consider jazz/rock/classical subcategories, but this would further limit the audience for any given release.

Other ways of looking at it:

Stereophile has 80,000 or so sales count per issue?

What percentage are turntable owners, buy vinyl, etc?

I'm sure the magazine has polled its readership, but can't recall any data.

What would you guess, 10%? 20%

We could calculate a number from there.

There is an old statistics joke I made up in college. For an issue to get positive political consideration or national marketing attention, there seemed to be some sort of 3% rule for when mainstream media, politicians, or advertisers would go after a group. (It's probably changed now, with niche marketing.) It also turns out that about 3% of Americans are Presbyterians.

So, I use the number of Presbyterians as a base for when something has a "significant" market.

Vinyl seems nowhere close to that level of consideration. So, significantly less than 2.5 million people interested.

Vinyl cannot support its own hardware/software magazine.

I bet the Peterson publishing people would know what it takes as a base to support such a thing.

With magazines existing for Beanie Babies, Barbie, S&M, Tattooing, piercing, wine, cars, etc. their readers must outnumber vinyl addicts by a significant margin.

Lastly, purely from inetrent travelling and not 'objectively'...

...right this minute at Audio Karma, there are 27 people viewing the vinyl forum. 421 total on the site.

(At Robert Parker's fine wine forum, there are usually about 700 users online. I don't have any breakdown by varietal. ...)

So, vinyl 'hits' were about 5% of the viewers at Audio Karma for a given moment, and Audio Karma runs about 60% as busy as a high end wine site.

I tried to look up Stereophile's forum, but it didn't make Sitters.info's top 5,00 sites.

Hot Wheels is #1703, Barbie is #2448, "Matures Bitches" .com is #3620.

Gizmodo is #4746, and it's regarded as a huge electronics site.

US Demographics:

Population data to play with.

Put all these purely conjectural opinion together and you end up somewhere larger than 25,000, but less than 2.5 million.

Hope that helps!

linden518
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
I love it when I'm right.


Su-u-re, DUmPster. You also thought you were right when you posted not too long ago that the holocaust might not have happened. I'm sure you also thought you were right when you posted those numerous racist gems that ended up in the Dead Zone. Your track record of being "right" is pitifully poor.

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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

Quote:
I love it when I'm right.


Su-u-re, DUmPster. You also thought you were right when you posted not too long ago that the holocaust might not have happened. I'm sure you also thought you were right when you posted those numerous racist gems that ended up in the Dead Zone. Your track record of being "right" is pitifully poor.

It's just plain absurd to state that vinyl isn't going through a Renaissance. Major record companies are pressing or having pressed most of their major releases and High school and college kids are falling in love left and right. Just another example of DUP denying reality and substituting his own.

judicata
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

I've realized that when DUP says something "is" or "is not" he really is saying that he, personally, doesn't believe that it should (or should not) be. The problem is that he doesn't know how to separate subjective opinions from objective reality.

dbowker
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

"I'm sure the magazine has polled its readership, but can't recall any data.

What would you guess, 10%? 20%"

Actually, it's WAY more, at least of Stereophile readers who vote. This just from 3 weeks ago.

Clearly many of you are spending bucks on your turntables these days. How about vinyl records to feed them? Have you spent any money on vinyl LPs in the last 12 months? What did you buy?

Yes, quite a bit: 36%
Yes, a decent amount: 24%
Yes, but just a little: 15%
No, I've already got just what I need: 6%
No, I don't do vinyl: 17%

That would be 83% "do" some sort of vinyl, with a full 60% doing it a lot! Poor DUP is down in the 17% crowd, which is why he needs to make so much noise and have it seem he speaks for the masses.

CECE
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

How come now a survey by Stereophile is a vote of teh masses, when Stereophile has a readership of how many? And high end audio is not a mass market product? But now the VINYL resurgence has taken on MASS MARKET proportions? homie don't think so.......If it had the million$ of sales like CD or downloads, then it's mass market, if a small % of the 80,000 readers are doing vinyl, I hardly think the MASSES are flocking to obsolete technology. See how true the saying is about making statistics say what ever you want them to? DSD upsamling IS the way to go!!!!

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The resurgence ROCKS!

The Vote survey was not proof of the masses at large per se, but in response to Bhuddha's question about how many readers were into vinyl. But if I had to guess, new vinyl sales eclipses DSD, SACD and DVD-A combined. In fact I have seen as much sited in a number of reports- so who's holding onto a dying medium?

CECE
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Re: The resurgence ROCKS!

Remember the movie, Night of the Living DEAD? The Zombies kept walking, but they where....DEAD!!!! Vinyl is the Zombie of audio, it's dead but it keeps walking.

smejias
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
Stereophile has 80,000 or so sales count per issue?

What percentage are turntable owners, buy vinyl, etc?

We recently asked our online readers if they'd spent any money on their turntable rig in the last twelve months. Here's what they said.

We then asked if they'd spent any money on vinyl LPs in the last 12 months. Here's what they said.

I visited the Princeton Record Exchange on Saturday. [Sorry I didn't contact you, NYC guys; it was a kind of last-minute thing.] The place was packed. Packed. And this was during a heavy storm. I ended up spening much more money than I had intended. At the cash register, I ran into Chris Sommovigo of The Signal Collection and Big Black Disk. Chris was leaving with an enormous stack of records. And before I left, I chatted a bit with the store manager. He also explained that both new and used vinyl has been moving fast. While sales of new compact discs have been slow, used compact disc sales have also been good. At the same time, he's also been seeing more used compact discs coming into the store.

Interesting, I thought.

I was very busy this weekend, so I didn't get to listen much. However, I did make the time to listen to one side of an Oscar Brown album. An original pressing of his Between Heaven and Hell (1962), held in a tattered, dirty plastic sleeve that looked as though it had been to heaven, hell, and back. I was immediately stunned by its sound -- bold, airy, and magnificent with solid images placed within a wide and deep soundstage -- without a single tick, pop, or skip. No noise at all.

I'm not saying that such wonderfully quiet vinyl is always the case, especially with albums as old as this, but it is obviously possible.

judicata
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Re: The resurgence ROCKS!


Quote:
Remember the movie, Night of the Living DEAD? The Zombies kept walking, but they where....DEAD!!!! Vinyl is the Zombie of audio, it's dead but it keeps walking.

Night of the _____ Dead? Hmmm....

ethanwiner
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
So, I'd bet there's 50,000 dedicated vinyl heads floating around, jus based on sales at shows and the degree of inclusion of vinyl in shows.


Sure, but how many spend $30k and up for their turntable, and how many spend $300? That to me is the main question. I take manufacturer's press releases about their success with a big grain of salt. We'll probably never really know for sure...

--Ethan

Buddha
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Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

Quote:
So, I'd bet there's 50,000 dedicated vinyl heads floating around, jus based on sales at shows and the degree of inclusion of vinyl in shows.


Sure, but how many spend $30k and up for their turntable, and how many spend $300? That to me is the main question. I take manufacturer's press releases about their success with a big grain of salt. We'll probably never really know for sure...

--Ethan

I'm sure there are people who probably say the same thing about Real Traps.

I guess if a company stays in business, that's a good enough economic indicator, eh?

ethanwiner
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Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:
I'm sure there are people who probably say the same thing about Real Traps.


LOL, the difference is I never issue press releases about how well we're selling.

--Ethan

bifcake
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Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!


Quote:

LOL, the difference is I never issue press releases about how well we're selling.

--Ethan

That's because you're not selling anything. Just admit that you're a kept man.

rvance
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Joined: Sep 8 2007 - 9:58am
Re: There is no "resurgence" total nonsense!!!!

The Resurgence will not be televised....

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