$1,500 is a nice sweet spot for speakers. Lots of options.

As you have so many choices, it would help if you give us an idea of what you like and what you want the speakers to do for you.

For example, is the ability to play loud important? If so, with 40 watts you will need efficient speakers. What characteristics in speakers really matter to you?

I would put the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature II. on my short list.

Sensitivity: 86

Klipsch tend to be very sensitive (>96). But some people think they're too harsh. I haven't heard them in a while so I can't say.

What sound qualities are important to you?

Some to audition:
Polk Audio RTi A9 $1300/pair
Paradigm Monitor 11 $1200/pair
PSB Image T65 $1200/pair
Monitor Audio RS8 $1175/pair
Epos ELS-303 $900/pair
Triangle Heliade ES $800/pair on sale regularly $1400/pair
Triangle Altea EX $1500/pair

While I love the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature IIs they are also $2345 w/stands.

Ah yes the stands. I saw retail at 1900 and assumed a deal might be possible.

There is still the possibility of used:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1229843666&/Vandersteen-2Ce-Signature-cher

Used Vandy 2Ce is an excellent recommendation. I'd also look out for Spendor deals on Audiogon, where a used SP2/3e recently sold for $1200. Score... those are sweet speakers, especially for the music you're into. If you'd like new speakers, I think you should definitely check out monitor speakers, since you lean toward jazz, folk, etc. I heard FJ Minis on their dedicated stands, and they were just AMAZING. They're tiny, so they image like crazy & totally disappear. Not only that, the low-end response was surprisingly robust, considering the size. Above all, they were unfailingly musical on every track I listened to them with. They're well under your budget, even with those impressive wooden stands. I think SM blogged about it in one of the RMAF posts.

Gentlemen,

The OP has a 40 watt amp, with a speaker that has a sensitivity of 86?

That dog won't hunt!

Music is about pace and rythm and I think you need a wee bit more juice at that sensitivity.

Just a thought.

RG

Agreed.

This also takes Maggies out of the equation.

I use Harbeth Super HL5 with 28 wpc Leben amp. The Harbeths are rated at 86, but they have easy load... plus some UK magazine actually measured the Super HL5 at 91, so my case is probably the exception rather than the rule... Not sure about Vandersteens, but I assume it would be easy enough to set up an audition at a dealer's. Never say never is what I learned.

With Maggies, 40 wpc is no-go, for sure, like Elk says.

Monitor Audio Silver RS6

91 db sensitivity

Rated to go down to 38 Hz ( r u kiddin

B&W 705
Paradigm Reference Studio 20

Quote:
Gentlemen,

The OP has a 40 watt amp, with a speaker that has a sensitivity of 86?

That dog won't hunt!

Music is about pace and rythm and I think you need a wee bit more juice at that sensitivity.

Just a thought.

RG

You're probably right but this is what I was thinking:

for each doubling of power you gain 3db SPL.
for each doubling of distance you loose 6db (planars 3db)

SPL: 1w=86db, 2w=89db, 4w=92db, 8w=95db, 16w=98db, 32w=101db, 64w=104db, 128w=107db...
Loose 6db at 2m, 12db at 4m. (planars loose 3db at 2m, 6db at 4m)

He did say "semi-loud". So at about 12ft/4m you have 86db. (planars = 92) for one speaker, two gets you 3db more.

The Vandys are rated 40w to 160w. Which gives a range (at 12ft/4m) of about 86db to 92db. (89 - 95 in stereo)

Bottom line: difference between 40w and 160w about 6db SPL.

Stereo 40w at 12ft = (sensitivity rating +3) SPL (roughly)
Stereo 80w at 12ft = (sensitivity rating +6) SPL
.
.
.

Proly won't hunt maybe just run?

correct me if i'm wrong (you probably will anyway ) but i always thought power to perceived sound doubling was geometric. i.e. 1 watt equals x; 10 watts equals x plus 3db; 100 watts equals x plus 6db. so that you would need 100 watts to get from 86 to 91db.

Quote:
Monitor Audio Silver RS6
91 db sensitivity
Rated to go down to 38 Hz ( r u kiddin

Quote:
correct me if i'm wrong (you probably will anyway ) but i always thought power to perceived sound doubling was geometric. i.e. 1 watt equals x; 10 watts equals x plus 3db; 100 watts equals x plus 6db. so that you would need 100 watts to get from 86 to 91db.

I believe you're thinking of the old adage that to sound twice as loud you need ten times the power. This, of course, begs the question what is twice as loud? The decibel is merely a ratio. For power (watts) the formula is 10 x Log10 (P1/P2). Twice the power is approximately 3dB.

With the Audio Refinement Complete integrated amp (50 wpc 8 Ohms, 90 wpc 4 Ohms) I would think that in your price range the Monitor Audio RS8s (91dB/1w/1m and 6 Ohms), the PSB Image T65 (92dB/1w/1m and 6 Ohms), and the Paradigm Monitor 11 (94dB/1w/1m and 8 Ohms) would do well. Hopefully you can listen to these somewhere. But I don't hate any of them, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, common with speakers in this price range.

Quote:

Quote:
correct me if i'm wrong (you probably will anyway ) but i always thought power to perceived sound doubling was geometric. i.e. 1 watt equals x; 10 watts equals x plus 3db; 100 watts equals x plus 6db. so that you would need 100 watts to get from 86 to 91db.

I believe you're thinking of the old adage that to sound twice as loud you need ten times the power. This, of course, begs the question what is twice as loud? The decibel is merely a ratio. For power (watts) the formula is 10 x Log10 (P1/P2). Twice the power is approximately 3dB.

What he said!

Quote:

Quote:
correct me if i'm wrong (you probably will anyway ) but i always thought power to perceived sound doubling was geometric. i.e. 1 watt equals x; 10 watts equals x plus 3db; 100 watts equals x plus 6db. so that you would need 100 watts to get from 86 to 91db.

I believe you're thinking of the old adage that to sound twice as loud you need ten times the power. This, of course, begs the question what is twice as loud? The decibel is merely a ratio. For power (watts) the formula is 10 x Log10 (P1/P2). Twice the power is approximately 3dB.

bertdw sums it up beautifully.

It is somewhat unintuitive. Think about the implication. If 100 watts gets you to 100db SPL then to get to 109db SPL you have to double the power 3 times.

100w=100db
200w=103db
400w=106db
800w=109db
1600w=112db

Similarly if 1w gets you to 100db SPL (Klipsch)
1w=100db
2w=103db
4w=106db
8w=109db
16w=112db

Generally speaking a 10db SPL increase is twice as loud.

This is why sensitivity ratings are important. A 3db increase is the same as exchanging a 100w amp for 200w (or even 1w for 2w).
Its usually easier (less expensive) to buy a slightly (3db) more efficient speaker.

To keep things in perspective 130db SPL is considered the threshold for pain.

Believe or not at 85db SPL earplugs are recommended http://www.entnet.org/HealthInformation/loudnessScale.cfm

However all of this is skewed somewhat by:

Quote:

At 1 kHz, for very low levels, a 3-dB change is the least detectable
by the ear, but at high levels the ear can detect a 0.25-dB change. A
very low level 35-Hz tone requires a 9-dB level change to be
detectable. For the important midfrequency range and for commonly
used levels, the minimum detectable change in level that the ear can
detect is about 2 or 3 dB. Making level changes in increments less than
these is usually unnecessary.

-- F. Alton Everest THE MASTER HANDBOOK OF ACOUSTICS 4th ed

This means that at different loudness's our ears have a different sensitivity to frequencies.

well, thanks for the update. i was under the impression (mistaken?) that 3db represents a preceived doubling of the loudness. when you get as old as i am, some things just stick in your head from the olden days, god forbid, the 70s. until 3 years ago, my interest in stereo had faded out around 1988. i must have gotten this idea from something i read back then and it stuck.