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Wow.

Did you come?

Nah.. I didnt enjoy doing it...I dont enjoy taking another life(I do not hunt for sport either)..hell, I could barely live with myself when I got back from Iraq, knowing the stuff that I had part in...

but this was just me exercising my right to protect what is mine. earlier this year those same two dogs killed our daughter's cat, and also lunged at my daughter one day as she was playing with her cousin. Id do it again in a heart beat.

We have dominion over the animals for a reason..animals lack reasoning ability, conscience..sometimes they have to pay for it. this was one of those times.

I couldnt very well shoot the owners.

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...grabbed my Mossberg 410 ("home defense" series)...

Lordy knows your family was under severe threat!

I've been anxious to try out my 20 guage model for real as well.

dribble dribble

RG

its what we do out here in the country. You do not enter another man's land without permission. If you do, you are liable to get your ass shot off. ... seriously though...

this sort of thing is commonplace. dumbassed hunters fail to lock their curs up, the dogs go into a poultry farm, pig pen, or goat pen.... cause trouble, and die.

chickens cost money. eggs make us money(free range, organic, btw)...it is just a pittance, but where it goes is very important to us.

I went and told the owner what I did today. He and I had a discussion earlier this year(his wife was my 3rd grade teacher).. he looked sad for a minute and then said he understood, that heda done the same thing.

its a southern thang, man.

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It's spelled, cum, not come. Haven't you ever read Penthouse or Harold Robbins?

What was the name of the dog that Atticus Finch shot in, "To Kill A Mockingbird"?

Atticus shot that dog because it had rabies. Dogs killing chickens in the country are treated no different than a fox in the chicken coup. And no different than a dog with rabies. You city folk better stay out of the country. You're liable to get yourselves hurt. Keep your dogs on a leash during potty breaks in Liberty County. Or rather as you're just passing through. And I suggest you do that.

It's funny but my diversified work place always want me to go with them when they have to perform audits in Backwater USA. They incorrectly assume my presence will somehow save them from having to squeal like a pig. In fact, I had to give a lecture once on looking behind office doors for rifles and so forth. There just there for hunting. People actually go hunting after work. Straight from the office. Tee hee....

man, most of the people I know that hunt...

they wont take 2 week vacation time at christmas...but at the very start of Deer Season. we go off into the woods, dressed like mercenaries, spray ourselves with deer piss, and live like our ancestors did for those couple weeks.

I dont hunt, but I do help them track the animals and field dress the kills. I love tracking them...guess the tracking love is leftover from Infantry...

oh yeah, for what it is worth, I am vegetarian.

I couldnt very well shoot the owners.

Maybe not, but they're the ones who should be shot. They'll just get a couple more dogs and act the same irresponsible way with training and watching their "pets".

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I couldnt very well shoot the owners.

Maybe not, but they're the ones who should be shot. They'll just get a couple more dogs and act the same irresponsible way with training and watching their "pets".

I seriously doubt that they will be getting any more animals..the deceased were quite expensive.. I think a valuable lesson was learned. If they do get more, they will be confined somehow.

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dude, you are as white as my ass.

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She is going to get confirmed. Personally, I don't like the way she looks. Never trust a woman with "man hands".

Hey, that's from cutting sugar cane and milking goats and slapping her kids upside the head. She's Puerto Rican.

(I'm Puerto Rican, so I know.)

Don't talk to me like that. We're not friends and you know nothing about me.

Man, that was a little hostile....

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Man, that was a little hostile....

I needed that! Trying to wipe water off the monitor now. Spewed out of my nose I was laughing so hard.

Don't really care to know Meijas, but it don't take a "friend" to see that he looks very, very caucasian.

that's alright. it takes all kinds.

I have to keep reminding myself that civilians are tender hearted creatures...well, save lamont and rigibran who can dish and take with the best of em, in spite of their both being dumb as as all hell.

Look, darlin', it's Johnny Ringo. Deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darlin', should I hate him?

RG

Everybody is down on you for shooting Lassie and burying her with a dead chicken.

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Everybody is down on you for shooting Lassie and burying her with a dead chicken.

Indeed, that is the heart of the matter.

PETA sympathizers here...need to weed em out.

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Look, darlin', it's Johnny Ringo. Deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darlin', should I hate him?

RG

I'll be your huckleberry.

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Look, darlin', it's Johnny Ringo. Deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darlin', should I hate him?

RG

I'll be your huckleberry.

Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.

RG

damned if I do...damned if I don't. I'm Buddhist in outlook, I throw bugs outside. Poor little guys get stuck in the house.

But I'm also Country. I think that NC did what he felt he had to do, for all the right reasons. I've had to kill my own pets before, and for all the right reasons. Long stories, they had been involved in accidents and there was no way they were going to survive-best to end it quickly. And no, I certainly did not enjoy it. No, I don't own any guns. These things teach you to be past the panic and freezing situations and you end up not panicking when these situations are confronted again..which can be inevitable. They make you think, so you know better what to do and to do it without flinching in the moment, the emotions can be dealt with later, as there is no time for that while in the moment. This is important. It helps you grow as a caring person. Hopefully. Lamont could have handled his responses better, methinks.

This makes me feel that NC was a very valued person in Iraq, for example. Country boys usually are-when it comes to war zones. Excellent officer material. A good officer should have a hard time sleeping at night, but still manages to get the right things done with speed and the proper response in the given moment. This takes things like an early education in the realities of life and death and all the consequences of the actions that happen in between the two.

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Everybody is down on you for shooting Lassie and burying her with a dead chicken.

Indeed, that is the heart of the matter.

PETA sympathizers here...need to weed em out.

Not the heart of the matter.

It's more the narcissism, the fake hegemony about manning up over the neighbors and lecturing them and their passive supplication to some fucked up guy who was such a great fucking neighbor, he took it upon himself to shoot their dogs.

Then the shit about city people?

Yikes!

City people wonder how the dogs get loose and wonder if the neighbor is OK. We don't spot an opportuniy and then go search by brand name for a "home defense" weapon to crack open.

The whole story was so fucked up it was simply amazing.

Then, the use of a forum to use as an outlet for some erotic charge.

Just ewwww.

The only part he left out was high fiving his shootin' buddies over his mighty accomplishment.

PETA has nothing to do with it. It's some crazy shit all on its own!

On the other hand, we know the guy is now obligated to never have something go wrong with one of his animals - revenge between neighbors is a long process. I actually kind of worry for someone like that. Maybe now he has reason to keep some home defense on hand.

It's not that simple, Buddha. It never is. I wasn't there. I don't know. I'm not on any side here.

If it was my place and my chickens, I would have hit them with a high powered pellet gun first. Send them home with a very nasty welt. Maybe I would not have- I don't really know, one never does until the moment is lived. If they came back after that, well, then that is a different situation, again.

One really needs to have their mettle tested before they know this about themselves. The fact that it did not sit well with him, speaks well of his character. I would like to say that once again, one really needs to be placed in these difficult situations for real, before they can really know who they are. I'm not defending him, nor am I denigrating him for the situation.

As a point of note, NC did clearly state that the whole thing did not sit well with him. The reality is that it never does.

Iraq would have been far, far worse to deal with than this. Imagine all three being people, not two dogs and a chicken. Then multiply the situation until it is all out of control, and make it random for 6 months at a stretch.

Then you can maybe see where Clifton's attitude has come from, and why I like the guy. He's not into false premise or false fronts, for all the right reasons. We all have our origins and experiences. We all do our best.

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It's more the narcissism, the fake hegemony about manning up over the neighbors and lecturing them and their passive supplication to some fucked up guy who was such a great fucking neighbor, he took it upon himself to shoot their dogs.

Amazing...way to start things off with the insults, doc.
if they had been your dogs, id done the same thing.

as I stated before, this problem was recurring. I took it upon myself to remedy it. No more marauding dogs, no more dead chickens. Problem solved.

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Then the shit about city people?

yeah...we shoot *animals*, not people... call us crazy.

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City people wonder how the dogs get loose and wonder if the neighbor is OK. We don't spot an opportuniy and then go search by brand name for a "home defense" weapon to crack open.

I chose the right tool for the job...as most folks do. You may be well versed, well read, doc..but you appear to be patently ignorant with regards to the dynamics of living in a farming/rural community. If an animal is killing your livestock, you shoot the damn thing. Simple, really. I "DID" have a discussion with the neighbors previously, but they didn't seem to fear what would come if they did not handle it. Handling the dogs was their responsibility. They failed.

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The whole story was so fucked up it was simply amazing

nothing amazing at all, really. If I had allowed it to continue, THAT would be amazing.

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Then, the use of a forum to use as an outlet for some erotic charge.

if you think I got some sort of erotic charge out of it..you are a damned poor judge of character...or plain ignorant.
it was no big deal. Just doing what shouldve been done.

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Just ewwww

live on a farm. work on a farm. do manual labor. have the fruits of your labor ruined by two fucking unwieldy mutts. have your child attacked, scared...

but you can fuck right off with your bitchy hypersensitivity.

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The only part he left out was high fiving his shootin' buddies over his mighty accomplishment.

I dont have any shooting buddies. I dont hunt. Next.

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It's some crazy shit all on its own!

Crazy? shooting a human is crazy. Shooting two goddamn dogs is not. They killed my chickens. They attacked my daughter. I killed the hell out of them. I dont enjoy it, but id damn sure do it again, in a heartbeat. You sure are ignorant about rural life, doc.

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On the other hand, we know the guy is now obligated to never have something go wrong with one of his animals - revenge between neighbors is a long process.

actually....(you seem to have missed this too) my neighbor was fine with it. He told me he woulda done the same thing, and that he was sorry...even offered to buy me some more chickens to replace what his dogs killed... strangely..the only people whining about it are those that had not one damn thing to do with it.

Ill be sure and post each and every time I do something like this, just for you, doc.

that buddha shit is nice in theory, but in practice... fail..

go live on a farm. im not talking about some bullshit organic hippy commune shit, either..but a family owned farm in which the owners depend on the animals for food, clothing, money, etc. youll have to kill at some point.

then get back to me.

If he shot a couple of hounds with ticks from head to toe eating "your" chickens it would have been a different story?

Buddha, your response is the typical liberal response. This is a great example of total support for the torturer (purebred dogs) and complete contempt for the victims (chickens).

Sometimes keeping control and even chaining them does not work. Back in my earlier country days, we had a big Shepard cross beast of a dog. Bear was his name. He was eventually given to a farmer so he could use the dog to guard his sheep, ie alert the farmer to the presence of wolves. For once, in this case, the dog was bigger than the wolves.

Bear used to run through the fields and find field mice. He would grab them in his teeth, puncture and squeeze them just enough to make them die a healthy screaming bit. This was then followed with the greatly anticipated (with glee, you could see it in his eyes and actions-whoooo!) tossing of the dying animal high into the air and on the way down, the screeching mouse was chomped down on hard, chewed a bit..and then swallowed.

He'd then come into the house and promptly puke up a pile of a dozen or more mice. Thanks for the warm meal, Bear!

Human bred canines (citified, cultured/controlled breeds) almost always play with their food. I personally haven't seen an exception yet.

My last pup was a Alaskan Malamute, Canadian Eskimo Dog and Siberian Husky Crossbreed, a born runner and puller. Since all three breeds are Spitz dogs and all three have Grey wolf in their backgrounds, her predominant characteristic, mental, social and physical, was that of a Grey Wolf. Absolutely clannish, fearless in the extreme, extremely affectionate with her family (all humans), and an absolute holy terror for anything else. She'd hunt dogs and cats ---as food. Ever seen a dog or cat turn white with fear? That's what happens when they realize they are being hunted as food. Nevermind the squirrels and anything else. She had the strongest leader markings that anyone has ever seen and the attitude and will to back it up. She'd fight for dominance and leadership of the pack with all dogs she encountered. That means a true blood fight to the point of submission. When she attacked and caught something, which I always tried to prevent---she ate it and moved on. No big deal, it's just survival.

To put the intensity of this dog/wolf into perspective, my sister ran a veterinary clinic and also ran the local SPCA for over 5 years, up in the James bay area. This is where dogs like that are commonplace and are bred for those attributes. I was given the pup, as she was so uncontrollable that it was decided that if this dog was going to be given a chance to live, that no one but me could handle her. Anyone else would have just put her down or shot her in a matter of months. So yes, two locations with experiences covering a total of decades with the most difficult animals you can imagine, they decided that I was the only person they knew with the patience and the ability to live with this beast. When I had to go to work, when she was a pup, I had to put her in a steel cage in the middle of the floor, and tie it down. Otherwise there would be something destroyed, or maybe she'd eat her way through a wall to get outside. My last dog, before that, a Shepard/Malamute/wolf cross-did exactly that. As you might imagine, I had to keep the two of them under quite a bit of control at all times. They caused very little grief in their lives,as I was good at working with them. To say that it wears you out, would be an understatement. This, by the way...was in the city, for both their entire lives. I have permanent body damage from attempting to deal with both of them, from walking them, as that kind of dog has an instinct to pull, it's bred into them, so they pull as hard as possible...and you can't stop it. Ever. Both were awesome dogs, but you had to understand where they were coming from, psychologically, that is.

Point is, such an animal does NOT play with it's food. They are serious - for all the right reasons. Kinda like a country person with a gun, and a city person with their gun. Different backgrounds. A different mental state, due to origins. City gun owners are a totally different animal than a country person with guns. The country person will see the gun as a tool, not associated with their mind, body, or status. Just an important tool that has at times been needed, so they keep them around. Just like a shovel or a tractor.

Dogs are instinctual and true to their breeding. For example, a good sample of the Scottish Terrier breed, a big smart one will do exactly as they are bred to do, the breeding that took place when the breed originated. The best ones were bred for a specific purpose. The purpose was to hunt rats, big ones. to tunnel and go after large gophers, etc...and then NOT eat them, and just go back to alert status and wait for the next. To leave the corpse for the human to inspect while they went back to the hunt. Well, my sister had a big Scottish Terrier. Those guys are TOUGH. They moved to a house outside the Ottawa area,and they had a big hedge that surrounded this country house in a wooded suburb. Well, they left the Scottie in the backyard. Toward the end of the first day, they discovered, to their horror, that he responded exactly as a Scottie was designed to do.

You see, the yard had become a pass-through area for the neighborhood cats. They found him sitting in the backyard, with 4 of the differing neighbor's cats, that he had killed at the exact points that they had come out of the hedges..and he had left them exactly at the kill points..for human inspection. A perfect Scottish Terrier. He was also tied to a long line when he did this, as you don't want such an intense dog going on neighborhood hunt patrol.

People have to learn that in the right circumstances...their little pups aren't all that innocent.

The big Shepard, Bear, he was guarding the sheep for about 2 years and did it well.

One day, he got a taste of one sheep. One that had been killed by a wolf. He was ruined. After that, he began to kill sheep all on his own. In an attempt to stop him from being shot by the farmer, the farmer tied him to a doghouse with a chain. He broke the chain and killed another sheep.

The farmer got a big ass chain and hoped for the best. Bear unpegged the entire Doghouse and managed to kill a sheep, to chase it down with the chain and doghouse attached-across the field. I TOLD you that this was a freaking big Shepard Cross, and I wasn't kidding.

The farmer shot him. The farmer was out of options. And he had lost at least four sheep already.

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If he shot a couple of hounds with ticks from head to toe eating "your" chickens it would have been a different story?

Buddha, your response is the typical liberal response. This is a great example of total support for the torturer (purebred dogs) and complete contempt for the victims (chickens).

Really, this thread has kind of taken the expected course. Ncdrawl told his manly story, then only added the qualifiers after he had been called out for being a dick.

The originnal story:

"I just shot two dogs today. woke up this morning and saw a Labrador and a Weimaraner playing with one of our chickens.. they had the feathers plucked off, and were just tossing it about as if it were some toy....... that drove me to rage,(the chicken they had was the one my daughter took to liking and called it "her chick")...so, fighting the urge to get a baseball bat and bludgeon them to death, I went inside, grabbed my Mossberg 410 ("home defense" series) , loaded it up, and promptly sent them home to doggie Jesus(or doggie Satan or doggie buddha , insert favorite deity)

I was tempted to take the dog corpses and dump them on the owners front door step(it is the owners fault, after all)...but I thought better of it and just buried them right beside the chicken.

if the dumb assed owners had kept their dogs tied up...theyd still have the dogs, and i'd still have my chicken(our poultry is a source of revenue as we take the eggs to market every saturday morning...(it isnt much but it all goes to our childrens college fund)."

It's only later that we get the crap about how he was all broke up, etc...

Not a 'liberal' thing, or a PETA thing. This was just some guy talking about being enraged, pondering which exact model of gun to tell us he grabbed, and how he was tempted to dispose of the carcasses. At the end, we get the bit about the chickens paying for junior's college.

Now he's invented regretful neighbors who completely understand, yada yada yada.

I grew up in the country - out west, where I can't recall things like neighbors shooting each other's dogs, and we had gun racks on VW Bugs!

Maybe it's a south vs. west thing. We were neigborly enough to maybe talk to the neighbor so he could let his kids know to keep the dogs in the yard. Maybe even let the dog catcher have 'em to drive the point home.

I never recall some guy talking about shooting at some varmit and starting with the fetish description: "Well, I done went and got my Remington SPR310 over under with the inlay on the stock and took down that farging coyote."

I do like the new BS about "terrified childrens..."

Ok. I know this is a forum, so communication can be a bit stilted, and misconstrued.

I'm guessing that if NC had told his story to any of you in person, the rest of it would have come out over time,and this little eruption would not have occurred. We are not all into writing big-ass long winded bits of fluff like I tend to do. We should all try to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, until things are given a chance to become clear enough.

Just my experience and opinion after over 20,000 pages of this in ten years of being a participant on different audio and Video forums.

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It's only later that we get the crap about how he was all broke up, etc...

I never said I was broke up, and don't consider myself a dick because I shot two animals that needed shooting.

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just some guy talking about being enraged

Ah yeah... I was mad as hell. You work hard on your crops, raising your animals, only to have them destroyed by a couple of untended hunting dogs?? hell yes.

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pondering which exact model of gun to tell us he grabbed

That was for the benefit of Lamont and others who appreciate guns.... I couldve gotten my machine gun, but that woulda been messy.

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and how he was tempted to dispose of the carcasses

sure was...I was very angry. but, like most human beings, I realized that it was not the right thing to do.

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Now he's invented regretful neighbors who completely understand

most folks would be regretful(at least folk in the country)...both for their own loss, and mine. Again..totally human reaction. If I had dogs that were out there doing this sort of thing, I'd expect the victim to act just as I did..no hard feelings.

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Maybe it's a south vs. west thing. We were neigborly enough to maybe talk to the neighbor so he could let his kids know to keep the dogs in the yard.

I did have a discussion with them(this is the 3rd time ive mentioned it)...I could have shot the hell out of them the first time, but I didnt, as a courtesy.

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I never recall some guy talking about shooting at some varmit and starting with the fetish description:

well, dont ever come down south...youll be packing up to head back west in no time. Guns are big down here. I love the stereotyping, too... Typical response from a city dwelling, sheltered, white collar person. Cant say that I really blame you. You can't help it.

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I do like the new BS about "terrified childrens..."

Yep. we see what happens when you mess with...

...her cat

...her chick

Pity the poor SOB who fucks with her ...

RG

And the bunch of you idiots are all antagonizing the situation which serves no purpose but to affirm and strengthen your emotional positions. Remember, emotions paint logic and thought into existence, not the other way around.

Which is bullshit of the worst kind-if you fail to see it for what it is. That's how we get into these sorts of situations. If you guys find that enjoyable, you can do it on your own.

Out.

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I do like the new BS about "terrified childrens..."

Yep. we see what happens when you mess with...

...her cat

...her chick

Pity the poor SOB who fucks with her ...

RG

imagine being a two year old little girl, and having two dogs of that size charge you.... damn frightening.

I imagine seein' her daddy in a rage, loadin' that shotgun and murderin' dem two curs was damn frightenin' as well, but that is how ya'll teach em down south, isn't it?

RG

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And the bunch of you idiots are all antagonizing the situation which serves no purpose but to affirm and strengthen your emotional positions. Remember, emotions paint logic and thought into existence, not the other way around.

Which is bullshit of the worst kind-if you fail to see it for what it is. That's how we get into these sorts of situations. If you guys find that enjoyable, you can do it on your own.

Out.

Out?

Thanks.

I'll believe it when I see it, though.

KBK, this is all just dicking around with each other.

If it had happened in real life, we'd know Ncdrawl's tale differently.

He'd have probably come into the local tavern and when we asked him how he was doing, he'd have said something like, "Crappy day, you liberal sissified city girls. You know those damn dogs I've been telling you about that keep raiding my chickens? Man, I've tried talking to the 'Smiths' and they they can't get their damn kid to keep his dogs properly controlled and this morning the dogs were back tearing up a chicken and I got so pissed, I just shot the damn things. Shit."

Then we'd have said, "Bummer, ya low down dirty Southern snake. Bartender! Get Ncdrawl his usual brandy alexander, and make it a double with an extra cherry!"

And it would all be good.

KBK, the internet robs context, so we end up with these little brushfires.

Heck, in person out west, it would probably have gone more like this:

Ncdrawl walks into the saloon. The piano player knows him and doesn't stop playing, and nobody fingers their six shooter, since none of them are eating a chicken belonging to him. Ncdrawl sits down at the table we're all occupying and says, "Howdy."

The guys at the table say, "Howdy."

Ncdrawl says, "Shit."

The guys at the table say, "Yep."

And there ya go, we've all communicated! Time for the next beer or whiskey.

That's actually quite a bit like what it's like to be out west.

"in vino veritas"

Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday - Tombstone

OUT

RG

Okay, there has been a lot of talk about putting down a couple of chicken killing dogs. But lets take a closer look at this problem and compare it to what is being proposed by the current administration in regard to our lives in general. Lets use Senator Ted Kennedy as an example. Ted stated that this medical care reform

Oh, brother.

Lamont, you are an irritant, like Teddy. You bother people here more than Ted does. Is it OK to shoot you and put you out of our misery?

"It's acceptable in our region."

Isn't that the official motto of the entire region?

From looking at the data, it seems being a single teenaged mother is acceptable in y'all's region, but that seems to upset you.

Lamont, it's acceptable in your region.

________

(By the way, the fact that shooting people's pets is acceptable in your region is not exactly shocking. Really, now.)

I don't care what you say. I'm turning it in for a grade.

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I don't care what you say. I'm turning it in for a grade.

For the appropriate grade, look right below your name.

Ya know, I overlooked the real bottom line about the shooting:

"...that drove me to rage..."

Sums it up right there.

Can't argue with that reasoning!

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I don't care what you say. I'm turning it in for a grade.

For the appropriate grade, look right below your name.

Hey, fuck you, man!...

Love ya too, buddy!

A brilliant rebuttal, Lamont. When in doubt, say "fuck you," and paste up a smiley-faced emoticon.

You all missed Buddha's point. True or not, the shooting of the dogs, chickens, ducks, mongooses, or whatever member of the bestiary that infests the collective unconscious of the Gothic South, is gratuitous.

If all these amateurish literary murders were REAL, then why the need to tell us about them?

Lamont, my guess is that you protest too much. You apparently have a fantasy that involves endless repetitions of the word "fuck" and shooting various, er, ammunitions through sundry elongated cylindrical instruments. And, you need to construct public narratives that clumsily expound this need.

Again (sorry, Buddha -- I don't want to presume to translate), the point is not whether or not you have DONE these things, in "reality" (whatever THAT means, these days...), but why you feel the need to tell us about these experiences.

I suppose the difference between you and me, concerning guns (and other exploding artifices), is that you want to tell us stories about them, and I just want to forget. You celebrate your macho image, and I have to endure the nightmares.

Lighten up. There are more than enough fantastic explosions of body parts, human and non-human, populating the media these days, to give us all nightmares 'til the last lights go out. Why indulge and celebrate?

Again, why tell the story, true OR fabricated? Some things we don't need to dwell on. There is too much violence. Personally, for me, there are too many bad waking memories and nightmares under the sheets.

What a nice thread. Really.

Bam. Bam. You're dead. Big deal.

FWIW I think you did the right thing. your feelings afterward are par for the course. Doing what is necessary under those circumstances is the best anyone can do.
In my experience, those who have been shot at by people who knew what they were doing and quite good at it respond to danger and threats with the exact amount of force necessary and no more.
I would have done exactly the same thing. My feelings after the fact would also be much like yours.

Clifton, I thought somebody shot you a long time ago. Please don't tell me you're a bleeding heart Vietnam vet always looking for a stroke of the ego with innuendos that you have experienced being shot at or have shot at another. I had one of those in my family. It must suck to be you.

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I would have done exactly the same thing. My feelings after the fact would also be much like yours.

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate it.

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Clifton, I thought somebody shot you a long time ago.

Me too. I was enjoying the Clifton-free forum I think clifton was probably one of those guys "in the rear with the gear", maybe a desk jockey MOS? Supply? Admin

to his credit, at least he didn't mention how much his hifi gear/car/house/land/ costs or how much he makes CONSTANTLY , as he normally does.

If he was a line commander he only had to serve 6 months while the men he led served 13 months. That's right. An enlistment Marine on the line that managed to survive his entire 13 month tour would have had to put up with at least 3 Cliftons. Wait-a-minute line commanders. "Wait-a-minute, the lieutenant is snagged up in a bush, Wait-a-minute, the lieutenant lost his compass, Wait-a-minute the lieutenant got himself killed".

There was a big conference at HQ USAREUR for Battalion Combat personnel. During one of the breaks, some of the attendees took the opportunity to make use of the latrines. A 2nd Lieutenant and a 1st Sergeant were using adjacent facilities. When the Lt. finished he went to the sink and washed his hands. He didn't speak to the 1SG until the 1SG was finished and went to the mirror to check to make sure his crew cut was still close enough or did he have to go to the base barber at lunch break. As the 1SG turned to leave the latrine, the 2LT piped up and said "You know, when I went to the Officers Training Course, they taught us we should wash our hands after using the latrine. The 1SG turned slowly and fixed the young Lt. with a frosty stare and said "When I went to basic training, they taught us not to piss on our hands."

No, Lamont, it must suck to be you, always having to pretend to the macho life.

In the Marine Corps, we didn't use the "line commander" terminology, so I am not sure what you mean about the "6 months" thing. I was required to serve 15+ months, because I was a commissioned officer. The normal tour for enlisted men was, as you note, 13 months. I had to stay overtime because I was about to be discharged, 2 months after what would have been a "normal" 13-month tour -- the good Marines at H&I do not like to waste money or man-hours. So they simply kept me at Da Nang for an extra 2 months and discharged me at Okinawa, on the way home.

No, Ncdrawl, I wasn't behind some desk at Regimental HQ. I was with 2/4 (2nd Battalion, 4th Marines) at the beginning of my tour. My first night in country, I lost nearly half of a 14-man Recon patrol, just outside Chu Lai. It wasn't because I couldn't read a compass, but because I COULD -- I followed a patrol route that had been assigned at G-2, and routed through too many out-boxes I before received it -- they were waiting for us. When I made Captain, 10 months into my tour, it got worse, not better.

Lamont, as usual, you are all blow and no show. You know nothing about my tour or anybody else's. All you can do is put on your macho act and fantasize about being Rambo.

Ncdrawl, if you think I talk too much about expensive components (well-selected, they really do tend to sound better...), here's what I think. You and Lamont protest too much. I seriously doubt that either of you knows which end of a piece the bullet comes out of. There is simply too much macho talk about owning guns and killing dogs that got into the henhouse.
There is no credibility in your act.

Prove me wrong. Go out and shoot somebody, tonight. Make the morning headlines. Make us proud.

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My first night in country, I lost nearly half of a 14-man Recon patrol, just outside Chu Lai. It wasn't because I couldn't read a compass, but because I COULD -- I followed a patrol route that had been assigned at G-2, and routed through too many out-boxes I before received it -- they were waiting for us. When I made Captain, 10 months into my tour, it got worse, not better.

I believe it. You couldn't spot an ambush site if it bit you on the ass on your first fucking night, John Wayne. Blame it on some clerk. That always works. Sounds like you got promoted to your own level of incompetence before you even got out of Vietnam. Nice.

What happened to real men don't talk about their exploits? You don't even realize you posted about a failure. A failure that was ultimately your responsibility. What did you do? Ignore suggestions from the senior NCO? Came back the same way you went? What was it?

Lamont, you have no idea what an ambush is. You can only fantasize. The reason they are called "ambushes" is because you DON'T spot 'em, nitwit.

At least I know how to take a proper piss.

The senior NCO was as fucked up as you are. But, at least he tried...

More stereotypical macho bullshit. NCO's are always more competent than Commissioned Officers. Remember, I enlisted, and I took my first training with the other screws at bootcamp (down in your neck of the woods, at Parris Island), before OCS. Most of 'em are just dumb as your internet persona shows you to be.

You list yourself as an "actor." Out of work, I presume. So now you act out your fantasies in chat rooms and on audio forums.

Your avatar is some crazy-eyed puppet (appropriate, I must admit) and you can't even spell "bastard." And your dick hurts when you pee. You must be very proud of your accomplishments in life...

And, now, on this thread, you understand the law better than Ms. Sotomayer, who graduated summa cum laude from Princeton. Hell, you couldn't even get into , much less even graduate, or much MUCH less graduate summa cum laude. And, concerning knowledge of the law, there's that little detail about a J.D. from Yale Law School. I am sure you and ncdrawl are MUCH more qualified for the bench than this poor babe from the Bronx. Right. In a pig's ass.

Just what are you qualified for, Lamont? You know more about ambushes than those who have been in them, you know more about the law than a distinguished scholar whose background is even MORE disadvantaged than yours.

Part of your "proof" of your knowledge of the legal system is your approval of some guy who calls himself "Canine Killer" and tells stories about shooting dogs.

Didn't all this sound even slightly comical while you were writing it up?

Again, Lamont, tell us about YOUR experiences as a soldier and as an expert in Constitutional Law. We're all ears.

You are as phony as your avatar. A good choice, I must admit.

Quote:
I seriously doubt that either of you knows which end of a piece the bullet comes out of.

Me with a 240G on a range in Grafenwohr

back of a deuce and a half in Kosovo

You're the one that brought up leaving shit like killing things off the forums. Then you post you got your patrol ambushed. And blamed it on clerks. Fuck you, Clifton. You're a fraud. And a lousy one at that. So now its not only clerks that got your patrol fucked up its you can't do anything to prevent an ambush because its an ambush. Nice rationalization.

I still think you fucked up your patrol with your fucked up thinking that is still prevalent to this day.

Woo hoo!

Let the swifboating commence!

You know, that left wing liberal icon John Kerry served, too.

Here's a pic of him in Vietnam...just before a dog shooting party started!

He said that in this pic, he was thinking, "Man, bitch, I'm gonna put a cap in your ass from 700 yards with my Winchester 70 bolt action sniper rifle, or maybe my Remington 700 M40, or maybe my M21 Sniper Weapon System. I won't decide until I become full of rage."

I'm sure you macho gun fondlers voted for him over that draft dodging, cheerleading, tea serving other guy. Right?

His haircut is out of regulation. BTW, nice smoke screen. Clifton got out.