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Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

Are there any comments on the single wire, 30 A.W.G. interconnects? Anyone care to take me up on comments regarding what makes a difference in cable "sound"?

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

Stephen, I went back to look and you've kind of boogered the front of the thread. There is no lead in to the thread's purpose and the link I had placed there to explain the construction of the cables is missing. As is, the first post on the new version makes no sense.

CECE
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Re: Single strand cables
CECE
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Re: Single strand cables

Now we are starting to see some stuff that makes up a real system, 2 of these is a great starter....why would McIntosh make stuff that is in the real world of power amps? For speakers that need current, and move lotsa air http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting

Elk
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Re: Single strand cables


Quote:
Are there any comments on the single wire, 30 A.W.G. interconnects? Anyone care to take me up on comments regarding what makes a difference in cable "sound"?


After having tried these cute little guys with resulting poor sound I believe it is system dependent. With systems that require low current delivery it appears they work wonderfully well. What I don't understand is why they would sound better than thicker cables in such a system. I suspect the very thin dialectric and wide spacing between the + and - which minimizes magnetic field interactions, etc..

While they didn't work for me I can't dismiss the concept as there are many that find they are wonderful in their system. Synergies everywhere!

CECE
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Re: Single strand cables

Not synergy but Ohm. P=EI Why on earth would restricting current, making a large voltage drop, sound better. EEEEEESSSSSHHHHH. That's like hooking up my refrigerator to a 98VAC line and claiming it works better!!! When in fact you are buring out teh motor.!!!! Is there anything an audiophile won't beleive? Run an engine on 87 octane when it's requiring 93. since teh less is better mindset can be extrapolated further. I think someone has been reading too many MapleShadey ads, and actually beleiving it. I think your speaker binging posts are too large, shrink them, it will sound better. AND, why 30ga, why not......40? What spec or formula says 30 is the one that sounds best? Cus basic electrical logic says current needs copper. If your magic speakers only need volts, have you measured teh voltage drop across your 8 foot resistor? Try it, lets see how much voltage drop you have across them things.

drumguy48
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Re: Single strand cables

Hello All, found this on the Soundstage! site where I got the idea for 30G ic's.
"While on the subject of wire gauge, I want to clarify one point. I have received more questions about the gauge of wire used in this assembly than any other aspect of this construction. Invariably I am asked if it wouldn

smejias
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Re: Single strand cables


Quote:
Stephen, I went back to look and you've kind of boogered the front of the thread. There is no lead in to the thread's purpose and the link I had placed there to explain the construction of the cables is missing. As is, the first post on the new version makes no sense.

Yes, this was an unfortunate consequence of sifting through the extraneous posts -- some good ones were lost, too. I'm sorry about that.

For exegesis of this here thread, please go back.

Elk
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Re: Single strand cables


Quote:
Using a smaller-gauge wire for this construction maximizes the positive attributes of skin effect while minimizing the magnetic interaction between conductors.


Given that my speculation was "minimizes magnetic field interactions", I like this theory.

If one has efficient speakers that do not require much current, smaller may be better for speaker cables.

Larger and more powerful is not always better. The $70,000+, very heavy (2 tons), 420HP Audi RS4 which DUP champions as a performance car is easily beaten on any racetrack. This requires requires responsive, nimble handling. Much less expensive, lighter, less powerful, better handling lithe cars will easily blast by the Audi. However, the Audi is great for highway cruising: comfortable, quiet, big.

Thin cables may work very well with those that have and enjoy nimble, quick response systems that thrive on finesse rather than brute power.

The Mapleshade recordings do sound good - although I am not pleased with Pierre's willingness to exceed reasonable recording levels; he often records too hot, damaging the signal. This isn't the fault of the interconnects however. They work exceedingly well for him in his recording studio.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

You did try both the speaker cables and the ic's? Poor sound in what way? What components and speakers are you using?

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

Thank you, Stephen. At least that helps make sense of the thread.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

Certainly most other fields of interest where subjective opinions are involved are aware of the many ways to satisfy the various tastes of different buyers. I don't recall anyone writing to Car and Driver to suggest the only correct approach to driving is flat out in a Buick LaSabre. Now if only dup could figure that out here. Not much chance of that, I guess.

Cyclebrain seems to have left the discussion so I'll pose this to anyone who wishes to take a crack at an answer. If one of the faults of this thin cable speaker hook up is increased output impedance and the resulting frequency shifts engendered by combining such with a dynamic impedance curve in the speaker employed, what are we to make of Robert Reina's review of the $10k Audio Research 110 in the August issue? Measurements indicate an output impedance that is high enough to affect frequency response with most speakers. While RR's Alon Circes are not difficult to drive their impedance plot is rather dramatic in its peaks and valleys. http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/323/index5.html

How then are we to assess how capable this amplifier might be and that it simply didn't make a more synergistic match to RR's taste due to frequency deviations caused by the combined impedance? How do we judge any tube amplifier whose output impedance will create minor though audible frequency shifts with most speakers?

wkhanna
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Re: Single strand cables

Some insight from some one at another forum on the subject of IC's and tube amps......


Quote:

It's a good idea to pay some attention to the cable specifications. The area where you'll see the most sensitivity to variation is for preamp to amp connections with vacuum tube preamps or passive preamps. Why? It's a matter of the output impedance of the source, versus the parallel shunt capacitance of the cable, which forms an RC low pass filter at some corner frequency. This may also be a factor for the output of CD players with vacuum tube buffer stages, which are popular with some audiophiles.
Depending on equipment location, the preamp output to power amp run may be longer than other cable runs, which means the influence will be greater (RC network with lower corner frequency). With this type of equipment, braided conductor constructions without a sheild...(I have edited out the brand of cable being referanced here)...will probably provide the best performance; the braided conductors reduce common mode pickup substantially, but with minimal cable capacitance.

If you use equipment with higher than standard output impedance, the cable capacitance should be a criteria for cable selection. For more conventional solid state gear, with output impedance in the 22-100 ohm range, cable capacitance, unless it's unusually high, shouldn't impact performance.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

Yes, the use of passive pre amps, i.e. a potentiometer, can create problems if the user assumes all things equal and pays no attention to the impedance chages present each time the level is changed. Passive pre amps without any buffering stages are notorious for poor sonics if you are ignorant of the requirements of the system. This moves the user away from a "plug and play" system. As of the present time, the DIY crowd is favoring autoformer based passive pre amps which maintain a constant impedance independent of level. I see this approach filtering into the consumer market though at a substantially higher cost than many would pay for a passive pre amp with its other limitations. Long cables (2+ meters) from pre to power amp are almost always discouraged when passive pre amps are employed though buffering the output impedance should allow some leeway.

I'm going to assume Kimber is the brand promoted here since they produce braided ic's without a conventional shield.

Ignoring output and input impedances can cause trouble. The problem for many users is they don't know how to predict what might happen and their high end dealers don't offer much assistance.

Elk
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Re: Single strand cables


Quote:
I don't recall anyone writing to Car and Driver to suggest the only correct approach to driving is flat out in a Buick LaSabre. Now if only dup could figure that out here. Not much chance of that, I guess.


No chance whatsoever! But you made me laugh.

I tried the interconnects, using solid silver in teflon tubes. I tried both far spaced and a bradied three conductor (with the shield lifted at the load end). Both sounded awful in my system; tinny, thin, fuzzy bass (which sounded like more bass, but was actually lesser quality bass).

If I recall correctly at the time I was using a Sony SCD-XA777ES SACD player into either a Musical Fidelity or Bel Canto (prototype) preamp, and probably into a McCormick DNA-225 amplifier. Speakers were Dunlavy SC-IVA.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

It was the Sony that screwed things up.

Actually, I never met a Dunlavy that didn't like 2 A.W.G. cables.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

I'd give the ic's another try with the magnet wire and the RS solderless RCA's. Try the single wire with chassis ground approach if possible.

Elk
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Re: Single strand cables

I'm tempted to try again, if nothing else because it is soooo cheap to do so.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Single strand cables

How did we now get two threads out of one?

CECE
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Re: Single strand cables

Bi-Posting...can't you SEE the benefit? If you have a split screen or 2 monitors, it will fill the room with a subtle BLOOM and air to teh visuals.....But make sure you have the correct type video moniotr wires...

smejias
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Re: Single strand cables


Quote:
How did we now get two threads out of one?

It's been this way since I filtered out DUP's posts. The forum software doesn't allow me to simply move offensive posts, in a vacuum from all other posts. For instance, when I moved DUP's post to the Dead Zone, all of those responses to DUP's post also got moved to the Dead Zone.

This is why it's important, I think, to ignore offensive posts, and to direct responses to the appropriate poster.

When I saw that good posts had also moved to the Dead Zone, I returned them to the Tweaks forum. However, they wouldn't go back to the original thread, but instead became their own separate thread.

I left both threads open because I felt forum members could decide on their own where they'd like to post. To simplify things, I'll lock this thread now.

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