Yes Buddha, it is a tall order.

I too find myself having those "moments" with my D2D collection. The Harry James releases on Sheffield, like "King James Version" for instance, you swear you see him step out in front of the band and he's there in your living room. There's a Crystal Clear D2D of the Atlanta Brass with a big organ that is incredibly lifelike, but only at truly lease breaking "performance levels."

Some of the 45 rpm Verve reissues get me. I need to look it up, but a couple of times I swear that I'm standing next to Coltrane on the stand. I've heard that exact sound coming out of the vintage Selmer of a world class band mate. (He really is world class, having played with Woody Herman, Ray Charles, arranging for Pacido Domingo, the London Symphony, etc. A "real" musician, unlike wanabe me).

My dog is also a measure. She howls at my trumpet playing. She howls at Harry James on those D2Ds, she howls at Clifford Brown on a couple of the 45 rpm Verve reissues,etc. but she NEVER howls at any trumpet on CD. I'm looking for a great SACD that may wake her up. I think there's something to that, because I think that what makes her is the overtones that we can't really hear, but we may sense the beginnings of them.

Oh yeah, every once and a while the bass drums on some of the Reference Recordings LPs of The Dallas Wind Symphony remind me of what I've heard when playing those pieces and the friggin' bass drummer wacked that canon right behind my head. That'll sit you up in the chair.

Dave

Sure Buddha,

When testing at another gents house, using one amplifier with great specs and no whisper came through the left speaker. Using another amplifier with poorer specs and the whisper came right through.

Cheers.

Buddha, try "88 Basie Street" (Pablo 2310-901 for the Urtext, i.e., holy vinyl, or JVCXR-0021-2, for the CD version -- fallen from the Original Garden, to be sure, but better than CD ought to be).

Classical, full house and all timbres? Try George Szell's Tchaikovsky 5th (Sony Essential Classics, SB2K 63281, a 2-CD set that includes Zino Francescatti's pants-down reading of the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto -- eat your heart out, Isaac!). Again, if you want the Urtext, search the bins for Odyssey Y 30670 (but you won't get Franscescatti...).

In honor of Sam's ol' bud, Lars, I will tell you that...

"Whales will be lifted."

These ain't any length of Nails, but your ears will forgive you.

Of course, you could just die over Bruno Walter's Mahler 9th, on Columbia (I sent it to Fremer, but he's still behind on his rock-n-roll, and has no doubt buried it undiscovered) -- there is an Odyssey reissue (Y2 30308) that communicates the Demiurge, but second printings are second printings. Turn it up -- you might not notice. Fortunately, it hasn't been dumped down to CD.

Veils? WHAT veils?

I

Quote:
...but she NEVER howls at any trumpet on CD. I'm looking for a great SACD that may wake her up.

Chris Botti "Night Sessions" available on SACD. Smooth but tasty.

RG

The CD, even 20-bit remastered, won't hold a candle to the D2D, not even close.

About those Mariachis, I hear trumpet every day. It's extremely rare to hear the actual sound on a recording. I think that was Buddha's point.

Thanks for the Botti suggestion. I love him for my "smooth" moments. He's too heavily process for a hope of hearing his actual trumpet sound.

Dave

Here's my 2 cents worth.
Bucky Pizzarelli Swing Live DVD-A from Chesky.
Amazing! Full disclosure: It's the Dolby Digital mix(don't cringe), but for me it's almost like I'm there. This is one I've mentioned here before & K.R. says he was @ the club when Chesky recorded it.
Reference Recordings 30Th Anniversary sampler CD. Most all the cuts are really good (music & sound), but there is one with a piano piece played by Joel Fan; amazing!! While I like classical, I usually don't care much for solo stuff (piano, violin etc.). This cut however....!!! This does "it" for me maybe even more than the Chesky. I can only imagine what it would sound like on a top notch system. I think it's mostly due to my NHT Super Zeros w/ their sub-woofer. And of course the recording itself.

It is very rare for me to experience reproduced sound that comes at all close to a live acoustic instrument in a performing space. I don't know what is missing, but electronics just doesn't do it.

On those few occasions when it seems close, it disappears quickly. As Buddha stated, "We audiophiles become very quickly 'desensitized' to the wonders of our gear."

Every time I upgrade I am impressed for a bit and then wonder in the equipment changes to ennui. I become much happier again when I stop listening to the equipment and focus gain on the music.

I have yet to hear trumpet recorded so well that it fools me. I have been impressed a few times, but that's it. I am certain this is because I know the sound so intimately that it must be perfect to pass the test. I am sure this is why I find recordings of some other instruments more "real", especially saxophone - an instrument I do not know as well as orchestral instruments.

Interesting that Chris Botti came up. I happen to know his girlfriend so I have met and played with Chris. He is absolutely charming. He also possesses amazing chops - much better than I have heard recorded. His recorded sound is somewhat unique is accomplished through a multi-mic set up, starting with a ribbon mic placed low below the bell and about 18" away. This creates a wonderful rich, detailed sound (This is how Sinatra and other vintage crooners were recorded).

Quote:
...Interesting that Chris Botti came up. I happen to know his girlfriend so I have met and played with Chris. He is absolutely charming. He also possesses amazing chops - much better than I have heard recorded. His recorded sound is somewhat unique is accomplished through a multi-mic set up, starting with a ribbon mic placed low below the bell and about 18" away. This creates a wonderful rich, detailed sound (This is how Sinatra and other vintage crooners were recorded).

I was only familiar with one cut from a sampler SACD by Chris Botti - it's very nice. I recently saw a bit of a concert on TV - arrg, I had to switch away, it was too cheesy, with CB and his artfully mussed hair playing and making goo-goo eyes next to a fawning female fan. It was just the show business aspect of it that got me. His playing was fantastic, but the director/stage director/tv/matinee idol approach made me gag. Nothing personal, Elk or CB! I know it likely is helping get good jazz playing out to a wider audience..

No offense here! I got exactly the same impression you received from watching him.

I expected either an individual that is saccharine sweet or an egotistical jerk, with modest talent at best.

I quickly found that my impressions of him from his stage personality were completely wrong; he is a great guy with talent.

A trumpet player with a style somewhat similar to Chris Botti, i.e. big sound that warm and sweet, is the Italian trumpeter Paolo Fresu. If you find that Botti has just a bit too much show biz flash then by all means give a listen to Fresu - I think that you'll find him just what the doctor ordered.

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Anybody have a "best sax" moment?

I can't recall any that really kept the illusion.

I can't recall *any* CDs that kept the illusion of a saxophone. Not even really good remasters. The best I remember recently was a Joe Henderson remaster on Blue Note. The midrange was pretty good, and most of the harmonics are there, but for some reason, you lose any sense of realism.

Stan Getz, on Getz/Gilberto, comes awfully close on vinyl. You can practically hear his tongue on the reed. Likewise, some of the higher budget (ESP) Sun Ra albums have some surprisingly realistic sax by Marshall Allen and the late great John Gilmore.

I would imagine that reel-to-reel copies or maybe SACD remasters of some of the great late-50s/early-60s albums could get really close. Some of those early Sonny Rollins albums always feel like they're recorded better than the medium they're reproduced on (vinyl or CD). Having neither a reel-to-reel nor an SACD player, though, this is speculation, though I do recall hearing a really impressive track from Way Out West as part of an SACD demo in Tower Records about six or seven years ago.

"Aphrodite's Child 666" double album.....truly unique. Actually is a song title 7 trumpets. Vangelis pre Vangelis on his own, this was his first group, extrodinary different stuff. Alison Steel on WNEW-FM used to play teh one song as one of her opening tid bits. The Night Bird....she was coool, i actually got to meet her at teh studio front door, whoopie....she was an original voice, when FM was cool, now it's AM on a different frequency, unlistenable crrap.

I have a "real sax" moment on one or two of the Coltrane 45 rpm reissues. I'll have to look for it this weekend and let you know. It's one of those things where I'm listening and I think, "That exactly the sound I heard standing next to Roger Holmes as he played a solo on his vintage Selmer." A sax player could tell what reed John's using and which mouthpiece. It's very realistic and it lasts pretty much through a whole solo.

Dave

I have a Phil Wood's direct to disc LP that sounds great in all respects. It is the closest that I have heard to real.

Plus I like Phil Woods in that he never plays anything stupid would improvising - there is always music coming out.

My previously recommended Branford Marsalis

Buddha,

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The Duke Ellington Band's "For Duke" direct to disc LP has a trumpet section on "Satin Doll" that gets me every time - that "this could be real" feeling. On the same cut, the other instruments don't manage to peer through the final veil. It's just that trumpet, for those few bars...but it persists!

I agree. The third cut on the second side "I let a song go out of my heart" has shown on my system extremely stable and focused images of the instruments. Have you or anyone else noticed that? When friends come over to hear the system, I eventually get to this cut if they like jazz.

Hi Buddha,

I have the Sheffield D-to-D LPs and a few of their CDs. both media are quite good.

Recently, I took out an older recording from the 70's that I had not played much. The sound was dynamic and involving, a difference from today's recordings judging by the other posts. The LPs were the Chuck Mangione's "Children of Sanchez". I played it for my kids who asked who Mangione was as they saw the reference to him on the Simpsons show, and I also wanted to let them hear a solo horn on one of the cuts.

guys: i have been buying some of the new vinyl that is out there as well as good will store diving. i think a lot has to do with the engineering myself. scored a 99cent copy of willie's stardust - cleaned up, it is incredible, also have been experimenting with power cords, that cleans up and quiets everything too. so far, there seem to be as many well engineered high quality new disks as well engineered old vinyl. the new stuff is usually quieter, but not necessarily better mastered at least to my ears. but to me, there is no bad vinly, just degrees of good.

tom