So the Rogue Audio Hydra has shipped and I am going to drop it into my system with my Carver Preamp in the short term with a Vincent Pho-8 Phono Stage.

Ayre took a big price increase in March and what I was looking at for $5900 is now $7500 - The 5 series phono stage and preamp. I just can't spend that much.

I am thinking about a Musical Fidelity M6 or M8 Pre to pair with the Rogue. Any other balanced solid state preamps under $6K worth looking at? I am certain that I want something higher end than the Parasound Halo P5 or one of the Rotel's.

Two of my systems are Marantz, I have a Rega Brio R and my first audiophiles system was Carver. I really like a warm sound so I am thinking a tube preamp might be worth considering as well.

Additionally, it sounds like the Rogue doesn't need to be balanced to get the most out of it based on reviews and conversations with dealers.

Any thoughts on pairing it with a PrimLuna DiaLogue or a Conrad Johnson ET3? Particularly in comparison to one of the Musical Fidelity units.

Additionally, I might consider a Rogue preamp as well. I would consider the Athena or the RP-5.

if all goes well, I am going to get to demo the Musical Fidelity M8, the Ayre K-5 and the PrimaLuna DiaLogue. I am also considering doing an in home demo of the Rogue RP-5.

I finally got a price on the Conrad Johnson and at $6K, it feels a bit expensive plus I can't demo it. My local dealer doesn't have one. Thus, I am ruling that one out unless I dislike these other four.

Given that I will not have a Fully balanced system throughout, the Ayre and Musical Fidelity units are a waste as I will not get the most out of them.

I have a short list of tube units. All get superb reviews or have come highly recommended. Does anyone have direct experience or strong feelings about the following:

Rogue Audio RP-5. - $3495
PrimaLuna DiaLogue - $3199
Mystere CA21 $2499
Vincent Audio SA-T8 - $2499
Conrad Johnson ET3 SE - $6000

I may be able to get a slightly sharper price on the Conrad Johnson and the Rogue. Both the Mystere and the PrimaLuna have have unusual shapes and will be harder to fit in my system. The others three are traditionally shaped components.

I will get to hear the PrimLuna. I can do an in home demo with the Rogue. I can hear the CJ GAT which is the flagship, $20K unit and the ET3 SE is describes as the mini GAT so I can get a flavor for its sound. I am not sure if I will be able to find a Mystere or Vincent dealer to demo those units.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mattnolanmd - Since you wanted to know what I finally decided on I thought I would share. I am a touch surprised at how mute everyone has been.

Last night I finished my final demo - I listened to the Rogue RP-5 with a Medusa. The level of detail, particularly on tracks like In a Sentimental Mood (Ellington & Coltrane) or even the end of Beehtoven's Symphony No. 9 is extraordinary. The crispness of the Ellington's Piano and the separation I was hearing in the strings and choral voices was astonishing.

The thing I was struck by was how solid state it sounded but without sounding digital. In fact, it seemed less warm than my Rega but in no way bright. Paired with my Revel's, I am optimistic this is going to be a perfect match. I do intend to get a slightly warmer set of tubes eventually and roll them in. Rogue's amps that are not Class D like the Stereo 100 sound like more traditional tube amps and give you that warmer, rounded sound.

Additionally, the quality of the phono stage RP-5 is pretty darn good. To beat it according to the dealer I would need to spend in and around $1000. The two cited as improvements were Musical Fidelity M1 ViNL or the Musical Surroundings Nova II. The dealer said even quality would be the Simaudio Moon 110 LP.

The PrimaLuna is wonderful. It has a warm, big sound that is just gorgeous. I worry that with my slightly warm Revels, that it would be a touch too warm. Additionally, the optional phono stage on the DiaLogue Premium isn't quite in the same league as the Rogue's. I would opt against it and get either a SimAudio Moon 110 from Music Direct or a Vincent Audio PHO 700 from Audio Advisor.

With a more neutral speaker an all PrimaLuna set or a Rogue RP-5 with a Stereo 100 power amp would probably be my choice. And finally, if you want to refine the sound a hair after you get your tube equipment, you can roll in different tubes. Upscale Audio is a fabulous resource. They have tons of choices in tubes and can guide you in how the tubes sound relative to each other and how they will sound relative to the stock tubes in whatever amp and preamp you choose.

One other note, I am going to admit a hair of bias I am feeling in favor or Rogue. First, it is US made in Pennsylvania which I find appealing. Second, I asked them several questions around local dealers, when the RP-7 is coming out and whether it was acceptable to connect my subwoofer via speaker level inputs. To say that they were very responsive is an understatement and I am thoroughly impressed with Rogue's customer service. Additionally, the dealers I have talked to have nothing but glowing things to say about them.

Good luck to you and I would really like to know if you heard the same things I did with the equipment you have listened to and secondarily what you ultimately settle on.

Thank you for your POV. I started that post and was interrupted like three times and completed it after you posted your suggestion. Your thoughts are always appreciated.

I decided I want to go back to separates. I am not certain I am going to get dramatically better performance than a nice integrated, I just want to. Additionally, I want a tube system. I have come to terms with the fact that I like a warmer sound.

Regarding the Musical Fidelity M6 PRX, I agree. It has sound to die for. The issue is, the least expensive fully balanced tube preamps I can find are $7K excluding a phono stage. After talking extensively to a dealer that does MF and Rogue and doing my reading, it is universally agreed that a fully balanced system makes a big difference with that M6 PRX. Your setup with the Audio Research preamp, Oppo Disc Player and the MF M1 ViNL is the right way to take advantage of the M6 PRXs strengths. Cheers to you for making superb system choices and I mean that sincerely. Doing all my research now, your system makes such good sense.

That being said, I am 100% certain I will not be able to talk my wife into $7K for a single component. With that restriction, I can't get the right tube preamp so it rules out the M6 PRX. Once that is scratched off, the next best power amps I could find in my price range were the Rogue Hydra, Medusa and Stereo 100. I have the Hydra home and it is awesome.

Commsysman....that is a very interesting unit at $5500. I am going to check and see if my local Audio Research Dealer has one to listen too. I assumed ARC was out of my price range and didn't look at them. I assumed the same thing with McIntosh. I am wondering how it stacks up against the Conrad Johnson. Nothing says I can't use it with the Hydra.

Mattnolanmd, that sounds like you pulled together an awesome system. The PrimaLune does look really cool and fortunately sounds as good as it looks. Sounds like you made a wise choice. Incidentally, I just got a PHO-8 and am very pleased with how good it sounds. Congratulations.

I went to my local Audio Research dealer to check out the Audio Researsh LS17 SE. Incidentally, they also sell McIntosh, PimaLuna, Parasound and Ayre. I bought the Ayre K-5xeMP. It is so quiet yet detailed...it seemed like a no brainier to me. Now, onto finding a balanced phono stage to go with it.

I need to tune everything including the subwoofer in before I can really evaluate sound. Hopefully that will happen this weekend. I bought a floor model and my Rogue Audio Hydra Power Amp was a floor model so they are both burned in. Once I get everything tuned in, I will provide you a true POV. My initial reaction though is that it is extremely quiet.

Regarding the digital side of my system, at the moment I have a Marantz NA7004 network player and a Marantz CD4003 attached to it via Toslink. I stream from a Mac via Ethernet. On occasion, I connect via AirPlay if I am not doing critical listening. I found this to be tremendous paired with my old Rega Brio R. I will continue with this in the short term but am looking for a major step forward in DAC.

My options are to add a balanced DAC like the Bryston or a Benchmark and stick with the NA7004 and CD4003. The only thing I don't like about this idea is that it adds in another layer of complexity which will make it harder for my wife to use.

My alternate option is to get a new network player and I am specifically looking at the Cambridge Azur 851N and the Marantz NA 11s1. The Cambridge is half the price so I really want to find out how it performs and may do an in-home demo. It has a dual chip implementation (as does the Cambridge CXN at $1100) and is fully balanced. I am thinking of getting a Cambridge CXC with it and moving my Marantz CD player down to my Marantz based home theatre. Cambridge has such a good reputation for its DACs that I am pretty excited about this unit.

Alternatively, the Marantz Reference unit gets an A+ rating by Stereophile and is without question one of the best DACs in the world. For perspective, the Oppo BDP105 only gets an A rating. Additionally, my wife is used to the interface but it is $3500.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-reference-na-11s1-network-audio-playerdac

Because it has built in networking functionality it is in the same group as the Oppo. Media Player, CD Players, Transports, etc... John Atkinson evaluates it vs a straight $40K DAC and it compares well. You don't need to use the digital radio, streaming or UPnP features but they are great features IMO.

The exact name is the Marantz NA-11S1 and it is in their reference series.

I agree with you in principle and love the concept of the Bryston BDA and BDP units. I have one issue that prevents me from pursuing the Bryston's, my wife. The more power buttons I add and the more complex the system gets, the less likely she is going to be able to use it. I had this conversation with a dealer. They said most of their customers take your approach with a separate DAC so I am assuming I am in the minority, however they said wives are rarely a concern in usage.

The Marantz would be simply swapped in for a different Marantz network player. Same interface and feature set. In fact, all my other units in the house are Marantz or Denon and she is used to that interface. She has the ap on her phone and knows how to use Apple AirPlay via these units. It is tough to introduce a new interface when she is happy with the Marantz interface. Additionally, my NA7004 sounds great in my system as is. Marantz's house sound will match my tastes perfectly so it is very low risk in that regard.

I saved a fortune on the two units I bought as both were store demos. The nice thing is, I get the full warranty as if the equipment is new and it is already burned in. If I can find an open box on the Marantz, I bet I can keep my total spend under $7500.

After the upgraded network player, I will look for a "last I ever purchase" phono stage and am looking at the Ayre P-5se and the Manley Chinook. Since I am never done, I will probably plot to get a Rega RP8 and maybe nicer speakers but that will be years from now.