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Welshsox
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Re: The saga continues

Oh dear

DUP seems to be back in his attack mode.

We are all intelligent adults and if someone chooses to spend $1000 on a power cord who are we to disagree ? its upto to the individual to decide what makes them happy.

The thing that we need to avoid is people shoving an opinion down everyones throat.

Alan

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Hi Alan,

The only things that are good is what dup considers good, AVA and Legacy. He has been pushing them lately, so he has to knock everything and everyone else down.

I will just let him go as I think everyone knows the situation.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

You might be surprised at my edumacation. My varied talents and courses taken. Just cus' my typOs on teh look like I might be retarded, they curded that years ago.

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Now all of a sudden you are educated. Just heard you only have a GED degree. Problem is you did not mention any engineering courses earlier, so I doubt your classes are much.

I wish what you said was all true, but it isn't. I spent 18 years before I ever started my business testing and learning. If it was as easy as you indicate, I would simply be at home listening to music, and with another job as there would be no need for me to be in business.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Yupper, I know some fantastic mfgs, that the stuff never breaks, never, used it for longer than 10 years far longer....and while doing it's job, it did it superbly. The issue about remote controls, causing some kind of sound issue that is audible, has been taken care of, non issue. Again. IEC type line cords where not developed for anything that involves soudn quality, look into it....Audio companies that use them on CD players pre amps, etc, it's a shipping issue, mfg issue, nothing nothing to do with allowing some nuidnicks to be able to change them for some perception of sound changes..... If your pre amps are getting tuned with teh AC line cord, there is a serious fault going on there. Big time. One minute you claim that by eliminating connection of wires and leads internally gives better sound, why on earth would you then make a detachable AC line cord which has an extra connection point on top of the solder connection on the part mounted on the chassis, run the AC cord through a strain releif, solder it and be done....Your design concepts contridict. I have used over priced interconencts and the ones priced for mortals, no advantage at all, in paying big dollars on dopey wires, for home use. In commercial or live events robust build quality, with quality conenctors matter, so it works, and keeps working. Nuetrik or Switchcraft, the stuff works and works. Pre amps and DAC and other low power small signal components should last and last, unlike power amps, which are pushing quite a bit more current and heat, much more stress on output devices, but even there, I've yet to have a failure of any of mine ever ever, from the same mfg of top quality, sonic bliss equipment. And the size of the transformer matters, since it's all just a big power supply in the power amps.

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Let's see.

"Yupper, I know some fantastic mfgs, that the stuff never breaks, never, used it for longer than 10 years far longer....and while doing it's job, it did it superbly."

>So name the companie(s) that have never had a problem with ANY of their components, not just yours??

"The issue about remote controls, causing some kind of sound issue that is audible, has been taken care of, non issue. Again."

>Since how would you know since you have no education or experience. Yet another deceitful response dup. You are also attempting to deceive the public as well.

There are motorized potentiometers, rotary switched controls and electronic controls. All are in the signal path and only one or two of the potentiometers are excellent and only certain rotary types are excellent.

I do not consider relay and electronic types optimum.

"IEC type line cords where not developed for anything that involves soudn quality,"

>Right. Power cords were developed to deliver power to whatever is built, mixers, Tvs etc. They were made to pass some basic parameters, that is it.

"look into it....Audio companies that use them on CD players pre amps, etc, it's a shipping issue, mfg issue, nothing nothing to do with allowing some nuidnicks to be able to change them for some perception of sound changes....."

>Many use a captive line cord as well. This does not say anything about their use or quality.

"If your pre amps are getting tuned with teh AC line cord,
there is a serious fault going on there. Big time."

>Nonsense of course. Since you claim to be such an expert, would you describe what is the problem, how it works in detail?? We know you cannot. Since you make bold claims, let's see if you can deliver on this one, or whether you are just fabricating a response and try to sneak around it.

Afterall, hum is absent from the speakers.

"One minute you claim that by eliminating connection of wires and leads internally gives better sound, why on earth would you then make a detachable AC line cord which has an extra connection point on top of the solder connection on the part mounted on the chassis, run the AC cord through a strain releif, solder it and be done....Your design concepts contridict."

>No contradiction at all. We are talking many wires and connections saved vs a couple added by using an IEC connector.

And a power cord is necessary. Replacing it does make a difference, at least in good equipment. And I would like to just solder it in, but customers want the option of being able to change cords. In fact, I did use captive cables for several years before using IEC connectors. I do have my power cords soldered in my test amps, but then I am not selling them. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

"I have used over priced interconencts and the ones priced for mortals, no advantage at all, in paying big dollars on dopey wires, for home use."

>Well, depends on the cables and that might also demonstrate how "good" your setup really is.

"In commercial or live events robust build quality, with quality conenctors matter, so it works, and keeps working. Nuetrik or Switchcraft, the stuff works and works."

>Ruggedness does not equate to sonic quality.

Who says using sonically superior connectors and equipment are not rugged? And who says using cheap connectors and cheap gear is good?

And who are these people who use them? Simply amateurs who took the name "pros" to feel better. Hey, they have to have a title, right. Believe me, most just connect stuff together and turn knobs.

"Pre amps and DAC and other low power small signal components should last and last, unlike power amps, which are pushing quite a bit more current and heat, much more stress on output devices, but even there, I've yet to have a failure of any of mine ever ever, from the same mfg of top quality, sonic bliss equipment."

>Yes it should be reliable, and amps are run harder, but my article was discussing preamplifiers. I could, however, make an amp that is close to industructible (assuming they don't drop it too many times).

"And the size of the transformer matters, since it's all just a big power supply in the power amps."

>Misapplying what I wrote, yet again. That is not only dirty to me, it is deception to the public dup.

As I stated, I am mainly dealing with preamplifiers since they are operated class A. So please be honest about that.

Some analog amplifiers are operated class A but most are operated AB and B. In class A, we need a size that remains cool for long life, so it has to large enough to easily handle peak currents for that matter.

Class AB and B power transformers must be much larger to keep their DC resistance and keep core distortion low, handle peak cap charging currents, and keeping the voltage rails close to constant voltage. However, the filtering system must also be huge when those below 120hz musical notes are played.

So let's keep your comments honest dup, ok.

mrlowry
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:
... If your pre amps are getting tuned with teh AC line cord, there is a serious fault going on there. Big time.

So you've always said that there was no sound differences to be had by changing power cords but this statement CLEARLY allows for the possibility of power cords making a difference sonically. You can't say there are no sound differences between power cords, then turn around and say that only products with "serious fault" need to be tuned. Sorry, can't have it both ways. Either they do or they don't make a difference.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

No, i said if an AC line cord can change teh sound of your pre amp, there is something seriously wrong going on. I used teh term "tuned" cus' that's what people seem to think they are doing with a line cord. The entire idea is absurd. My statement holds. If you can "tune" which means you are changing teh sound of a pre amp, with a AC line cord, there is something seriously wrong with your pre amp. Cus that means it's so unstable, poorly designed power supply, or some other super bizzare anomaly. Now if you start by using an undersized cord, like a 22guage wire to power it up, and then you put on an 18 or 16 guage line cord and notice a difference, that's cus' you didn't have it proper in teh first place, that doesn't mean the AC cord was better, it meant teh guage of wire was first wrong, and also dangerous, since min is at least 18G. for a pre amp Having an IEC removable line cord because customers desire to change them, is dopey. I thought you knew all teh reasons to make your stuff perfect, you would then already have teh perfect line cord, no reason to change it. My stuff already does have the perfect line cords, they are hard wired. With motorized volume controls. So far 2 issues are non issues. See how easy that is.

Welshsox
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Re: The saga continues

DUP

Im writing this after listening to fantastic music on my system and drinking very good 18 year old malt.

As we say in Wales, you are full of bollocks.

Look that up in the Parts Express catalogue

Alan

mrlowry
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Re: The saga continues

I bet DUP doesn't believe that different Scotches taste different either. But some of us know better.

gkc
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Re: The saga continues

Lowry, DUP has been bangin' his head against what others think for so long that he has no idea what originates in his decibel-soaked head. At least, that is his chosen persona . Is he REALLY like this? What is real? Who cares?

Happy tunes, bud...

Welshsox
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Re: The saga continues

Actually

I bet DUP would voice strong opinions that parts express 2 year old chinese malt absolutely kicks the ass of a 25 year old Macallan and its only $2.99 a bottle. Why do u want all that smoothness and refinement when you can have a real malt for a fraction of the cost !!

Overpriced Scotish crap, i can see the thread now !!

Alan

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

I always listen to both live and at home not under the influence of alcohol. This way I really know what I am hearing. Not imagining it. Since alcohol dulls the senses, I guess you could hear anything ya want it to be? At live eveents i can't have any cus it just puts me to sleep, too easy, I'm already tired without it.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Don't drink Scotch...vodka, does taste different...what does that have to do with wires, nothing. An AC line cord has no sound, it does have voltage and current ratings, and insulations rated for different enviorments and use....What NEMA codes are the audio ratings under, ain't seen any yet.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Wouldan't know one Scotch from any otehr, don't drink it, never had, never wanted too. Wouldn't know 18 year old from anything else. Whiskey makes me vomit, the taste and smell ain't for me. I do know the difference in some beer, most are piss like Bud and Miller and anything that is yellow beer, undrinkable, only dark beer for me, when i do have one. Vodka too, they do taste differetn, actually teh after taste more than anything, differetn filtering, better ones have less crap in em to give ya a head ache. Wine can't touch it, makes me vomit, and now you know all that improtant information, listen to music and systems not under the influence, you may hear something different, like what it really sounds like.

Welshsox
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Re: The saga continues

So therefore the perfect system is

Walmart CD - $19.99
Radio Shack DAC - $9.99
5000 watt per channel proaudio amp - $699 Guitar center
Legacy Whisper speakers - $15,000
Behringer parametric EQ - $99
Radio Shack interconnects - 99c
Radio Shack speaker wire - 3 c foot

Total budget approx $16,000

This would be the perfect well balanced system on DUP's planet.

Thankfully I dont live on that planet.

Alan

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

I think you should try that setup, you will probably find it to be much much better than some 5w $50K setup using magic wires and useless low wattage tube amps. Saving teh money on all those fancy useless wires, would allow you to get some great speakers. I've nver used Behringer stuff, wouldn't know, but it's widely available in music stores You would be much wiser spending the money on teh speakers, not on magic wires, since wires don't have any sound.

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Hi Dup,

"No, i said if an AC line cord can change teh sound of your pre amp, there is something seriously wrong going on."

>Remember, you stated a cord does nothing. Wire is just a wire. Now all of a sudden a wire can cause problems.

"since wires don't have any sound."

You just keep changing stories with the posts.

You say something is "absurd", yet you have no education to back your words.
Maybe we should try being MDs, we don't need any education either and we can boast knowing more than any doctor.

"If you can "tune" which means you are changing teh sound of a pre amp, with a AC line cord, there is something seriously wrong with your pre amp."

>You are the one who used the word "tune", not us. You just throwing out terms now?

"Cus that means it's so unstable, poorly designed power supply, or some other super bizzare anomaly."

>Tell us how a power supply works, dup. So now you fabricate stories by just throwing out terms.
Kinda like the misinformation and misleading comments you have posted earlier.

As a suggestion, why don't you start your own forum? It is free and you can preach all you want.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

You didn't get it, if you have an undersized as in wrong guage to an amp or pre amp, and you have rear AC outlets with other stuff plugged into it, and you are over loading teh cord, with a voltage drop that will maybe affect it. But then with teh recent heat here line voltage drops as low as 112 which is way below the norm of 124 + and my stuff still sounds the same.... Again, with a line cord proper guage for teh use...and if you are somehow tuning a component with a MAGIC cord, ones with more capacitance or large inductors attached to it in teh form of magic boxes etc in teh output stages or whatever, your componets are not made properly for the real world of different loads etc. Doesn't matter what interconect i used, the sound doesn't change, and the AC line cords are of the proper ampactiy for the device. Yeah, wires can cause problems, when you use the wrong guage for the purpose, that's not audio, that is just basic electrical stuff. Cheap wires done right sounds fine. How does a power supply work, mine work just fine, in real world situations, low line voltages in the summer, etc. Proper design, filter , transformer sizing. Matter of fact I have PF correction on the mains, to help the large AC transformers in teh amps, do their thing a bit better. Large inductive loads, is corrected ever so slightly, tiny bit by the capacitors across the line with teh Furman units, it MEASURES ever so slightly less current draw on the meters, nothing drastic just a tad. What PF is your units at? Anything under 90% is a low PF, not efficient. Just think if everything on your block was high PF, the savings for teh system. It's that true versus apparent power thang . One of them un educated guesses on my part.

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Dup, you just keep digging yourself in deeper.

"You didn't get it, if you have an undersized as in wrong guage to an amp or pre amp, and you have rear AC outlets with other stuff plugged into it, and you are over loading teh cord, with a voltage drop that will maybe affect it."

>So now the cord is too small. Who plugs in mulitple components to the back of a component?

What you are describing is much different than the term "tune". The preamplifier would be fairly large if it drew even an amp. Seen any tiny zip cords that could not handle one amp or two amps??

"But then with teh recent heat here line voltage drops as low as 112 which is way below the norm of 124 + and my stuff still sounds the same...."

>So now the line voltage changes. What does that have to do with a little zip cord? Any descent preamplifier should handle 112 volt ac. Again, what has that got to do with the line cord on a preamplifier?

"Again, with a line cord proper guage for teh use...and if you are somehow tuning a component with a MAGIC cord, ones with more capacitance or large inductors attached to it in teh form of magic boxes etc in teh output stages or whatever, your componets are not made properly for the real world of different loads etc."

>Who said anything about adding magic boxes, huge inductors etc? You are really stretching things now.

"Doesn't matter what interconect i used, the sound doesn't change, and the AC line cords are of the proper ampactiy for the device."

>And you would assume you have the best system around? Quite a bold claim. Ah, but you have AVA and Legacy, I forgot. Maybe that stuff is not that good, ever think of that?

"Yeah, wires can cause problems, when you use the wrong guage for the purpose, that's not audio, that is just basic electrical stuff."

>And when have you seen too small a gauge for a preamplifier? Even the largest would only draw 2 amps. We are talking audio applications here.

"Cheap wires done right sounds fine."

>Based on what? Well, of course dup MD.

"How does a power supply work, mine work just fine, in real world situations, low line voltages in the summer, etc.
Proper design, filter , transformer sizing."

>So you cannot describe how a power supply works, but somethow yours are superior. But now your focus has changed from power cord to low line voltage etc.

"Matter of fact I have PF correction on the mains, to help the large AC transformers in teh amps, do their thing a bit better."

>Drawing huge current, you should. And your PF correction devices are external to your gear. Just basic high school information. You still have not demonstrated any specific design information.

>My preamplifier draws much less than .5 amps. That is 500 milliamps.

"It's that true versus apparent power thang ."

>Yep.

The point is, I do not need a censor to tell me what I can post and what I cannot. And you are not going to intimidate me in the least with your tatics.

You certainly are not the judge. If you do not like what I post, then don't read it.

Cheers and keep cool.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Actually have you seen some MapleShadey ultra THIN line cords, they supposedly sound BETTER cus' they are thin!!! Now that's some design work!!! No I have not seen basic zip cord which is either 16 or 18 gauge have any sound differences, works fine, that's what I use, but there is magic wires that are not. Why wouldn't you have AC outlets in the rear of the pre amp, there are more than one device in a system, why give up convienece, it has no effect.
Back to my original statement, if you have a component that you are having something change in the sound due to the AC line cord or interconects, you have got a design flaw. Some of these magic wires with all kinds of nonsense stuff braids, layers of special wrappers whatever is the reptile of the month, mountain range, if you attach any of that nonsense, and you say, yup, I can hear it better? or different, your stuff is not dealing with whatever absurd capacitance or inductance the magic wire maker put into his magic wires, and your ckts cannot deal with it, simple. If I have an 8 guage or 16 guage line cord it ain't affecting the sound of the pre amp. Since 16 is more than ample to handle the load, going to 8 gauge as some dopey mfgs imply sound better on a low powered component, ain't gonna change anything in sound, if it does, on whatever you are listening to, there is something wrong with your unit's design, that let's it get changed due to the electrical paramters of inductance or capacitiance of the different magic woven, braided, layered, twisted, magically terminated with special "better sounding" solder.. One magic cord seller tells me THIN is better, with his magic saran wrap, some other magic wire maker tells me THICK is the way to go, nothing based on anything, just whateer they can sell ya, and how come they never have any specs or ratings on these pricey magic scams?

SAS Audio
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Re: The saga continues

Here we go again. I almost think dup is simply pumping me for information as it is obvious you have done no testing yourself, nor education.

" Now that's some design work!!! No I have not seen basic zip cord which is either 16 or 18 gauge have any sound differences, works fine, that's what I use, but there is magic wires that are not."

>You might try obtaining some good equipment and then set the system up right, somewhere else if need be.

"Why wouldn't you have AC outlets in the rear of the pre amp, there are more than one device in a system, why give up convienece, it has no effect."

>Again your assumption. Can you prove that no effect. Of course not, you have not proven anything else in this entire string. Just continually flapping the same line over and over.

"Back to my original statement, if you have a component that you are having something change in the sound due to the AC line cord or interconects, you have got a design flaw."

>Continuing with your nonsense I see. Why don't you experiment with better equipment? As usual, just fabricating info.

By the way Ics make even more difference as I had to change the xovers with one pair of ICs. No caps, inductors, just good old ICs. Too bad your stuff is so poor. Come on, make up another lame excuse.

"If I have an 8 guage or 16 guage line cord it ain't affecting the sound of the pre amp."

>Obviously you have poor equipment. Why not move up?

"if it does, on whatever you are listening to, there is something wrong with your unit's design,"

>Same tag line you got caught on before. Is someone paying you under the table, discounts, freebies, or other forms of compensation? Watch dup skip this one for sure.

The rest is pretty much dribble and minipulation, except, why so many cords? Well, why so many preamps and amps with various circuits?

Again, why not start your own forum? He won't answer this question one either.

Time for supper.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

Gentlemen,

Can we stay on topic please? If you would like to continue this discussion, please start a separate thread.

Thanks

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Driving from Baltimore to north Jerey at today's gas price$? That means the speakers just went up $75......w/ tolls which is also another rip on 95 from Baltimore. So Legacie$ even $ave ya money on toll$ and ga$......

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Yes, let's stayed FOCUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roadster
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:
Driving from Baltimore to north Jerey at today's gas price$?

As you are well aware, DUP, this is not a hobby...rather an addiction.
(PS: Besides, this was sidebar while on business trip so the company paid the expenses. )

mrlowry
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:
Driving from Baltimore to north Jerey at today's gas price$? That means the speakers just went up $75......w/ tolls which is also another rip on 95 from Baltimore. So Legacie$ even $ave ya money on toll$ and ga$......

Sometimes exploring involves travel.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Ok, Megellan.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

Ok, back on topic.

I spoke to Stew today (he's back from vacation), and this is what I've decided:

1. The magnepans are out. They simply don't do the full range of music for $5k and to add subs, that would put me in a different price range that opens up a slew of options.

2. If $5k is all I want to spend, then the choice is clear: Legacy Focus are the way to go. Nothing else does full range for that type of money and it does other things well too, albeit its highs aren't as good as Magnepans, but that's what I would have to live with.

3. If I decide to spend $7-8k, I can either:

a. Get Legacy Whispers on the used market
b. Get Avantgarde Duo's on the used market

So, now I have to decide how much I want to spend. $5k is my comfort zone. $7-8K would be a stretch.

smejias
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:
So, now I have to decide how much I want to spend. $5k is my comfort zone. $7-8K would be a stretch.

Why don't you narrow down your options by sticking within your comfort zone? Then you can spend more money on music or whatever else you might want.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

Yeah, but the Whispers and the Duo's are so, so tempting.

BillB
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:
Yeah, but the Whispers and the Duo's are so, so tempting.

Yep, that's a call you're going to have to make, regardless of what we all say here.
If relevant, then I relate this: The past week or so I've been getting extra pleasure from my stereo. Sounding a wee bit better than usual - no idea why, probably just my head, maybe the the temperature, maybe an extra drawn blind helping acoustically, whatever.
Listening to MY favorite music on my modest system is BETTER than my recent audition of a fantastic/hugely expensive/superior system at a dealer, where I heard a selection of good music I enjoyed, but it wasn't music that I loved loved loved. And that makes all the difference. So, if it were me, I'd go under max. budget for speakers, and spend the change on music and concerts and keeping food on the table.
But that's just me and I'm sure you've already done calculations which still enable your music purchases. So my point is - really - never mind, you've got your own decision to make!

bertdw
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Re: The saga continues


Quote:

So, now I have to decide how much I want to spend. $5k is my comfort zone. $7-8K would be a stretch.

Just to play devil's advocate, I say stretch your budget. How often have we heard someone tell of the joy they found listening to all their old recordings through their new speakers? While you're rediscovering your current music collection, you'll have time to save for new additions. Go for it!

Buddha
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Re: The saga continues

AlexO, you are screwed.

At this point, no matter what you buy, you will keep hearing the "compromises" you are making. You won't be able to help it, you just will.

You will play certain cuts and KNOW the Magnepans would have done better justice to 'this' track, or that the Focus would have added slam to 'that' track.

Oh, well.

Was Axl singing about audiophiles? "Welcome to the jungle, we've got your disease."

Best wishes on your decision.

dcstep
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Re: The saga continues

If you can truly afford it, then I vote for the stretch. You clearly are a "serous" listener and you'll likely have these for a decade or more. If you don't, then you'll second-guess yourself for years.

However, ONLY buy what you can afford. To me a "stretch" means that you can afford it, but you might need to defer something else. That's fine, but if it means missing a car payment or not being able to handle financial emergency, like car breakdown, then stick within your comfortable limit.

Dave

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues


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If you can truly afford it, then I vote for the stretch. You clearly are a "serous" listener and you'll likely have these for a decade or more. If you don't, then you'll second-guess yourself for years.

However, ONLY buy what you can afford. To me a "stretch" means that you can afford it, but you might need to defer something else. That's fine, but if it means missing a car payment or not being able to handle financial emergency, like car breakdown, then stick within your comfortable limit.

Dave

Dave,

My definition is the same as yours. To me a "stretch" means deferring a few non-essentials by a few months or perhaps not meeting my savings goal for the year. I would not consider a purchase that would impact my every day bills or my ability to handle emergencies.

The thing that makes me somewhat apprehensive about going with the Whispers and even more so the Duo's is knowing that I would have to upgrade my electronics down the line.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

Focus on Focus. I had mine for like 8-9 years, then went on up to Whispers. Then by the time you are ready for Whispers, you will have had time to get more amplifer. And such a deal those Focus, John was giving a good price.

Elk
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Re: The saga continues


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The thing that makes me somewhat apprehensive about going with the Whispers and even more so the Duo's is knowing that I would have to upgrade my electronics down the line.


But you will end up doing that anyway.

I, too, vote for the stretch. Otherwise you will hear only the compromises after a short while. I suggest that you buy something that you are truly happy with or wait a bit until you feel you can.

Of your choices so far I like the Duos. The sense of immediacy is intoxicating.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

The Duos are very nice. The Whispers do certain things, especially bass better than the Duos. The Duos are a bit more delicate. I think I would be happy with either.

Buddha
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Re: The saga continues

Strecth now, repent acutely.

Don't stretch, repent chronically.

Can we ever be truly happy if we know we have "settled" instead of "stretched?"

smejias
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Re: The saga continues

Just buy music.

dcstep
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Re: The saga continues

Don't listen to our young host.

You'll have years and years to buy music. This is a pivotal decision point.

Dave

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Re: The saga continues


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Just buy music.

And save up a few dollars for an Egon original.

Elk
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Re: The saga continues


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Strecth now, repent acutely.

Don't stretch, repent chronically.


What more can be said?

lionelag
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Re: The saga continues


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My definition is the same as yours. To me a "stretch" means deferring a few non-essentials by a few months or perhaps not meeting my savings goal for the year. I would not consider a purchase that would impact my every day bills or my ability to handle emergencies.

Alex, thought about making a run down 95 to Overture Audio in Delaware? Delaware has no sales tax. On 7k, that's a nice hunk of change. Even more than the gas you'd spend getting down here.

The thing that makes me somewhat apprehensive about going with the Whispers and even more so the Duo's is knowing that I would have to upgrade my electronics down the line.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

Lionel,

If I were to buy the Whispers or the Duos, I would get them used. These are 18k speakers, so I would not be able to afford them new anyway, nor would I want to.

gkc
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Re: The saga continues

Not so fast, Alex. In the words of the inexorable Bob Dylan (for those of us who can remember the first albums), "...a haaaaard rain's a-gonna faaalll..."

Don't stretch. Shrink. Remember where you are. The land of the free and the home of the deluded. Get out of debt. Repeat. GET OUT OF DEBT -- do NOT incur more just because you have a hard-on for better sound. Be patient, and you will be able to buy Duos AND Trios for a third of what they are selling for now. Remember, I told you first...

If you MUST, remember that the Duos only need 3 or 4 watts. You can drive 'em with your dick, as long as you fueled up on Scotch first.

Legacy models tend to blob out when fed inferior watts. In spite of their so-called sensitivity ratings. I know. I almost bought the Focus for my apartment. Then I heard the Triangle Volante (same price, and it will chase your mother-in-law outta town with 10 watts...). Unfortunately, unless you buy used, this model has been replaced with the Triangle Genese, which I have not heard.

I would never presume to offer specific advice about what somebody else (here, you...) ought to buy or listen to.

However, as an old fart who has survived a shooting war and several financial ones, I can tell you DEFINITIVELY -- get out of debt . Nobody loves home music more than I do, and damned few as much. But if you are at ALL uncertain about your financial future, and you are even thinking about an entire SYSTEM change, you are a fool. Worse, you may become worse than a fool -- a fool without credit.

Go to the used market. Take the 50%-60% discount. Watts is cheap, as JA and the rest of the stereophile staff have said over and over, and Quality Watts is cheaper when not taxed by a speaker with complex crossovers. And Legacy makes complex crossovers. I don't give a damn WHAT Legacy mythologizes as "sensitivity," you WILL need 250 QUALITY watts (and I ain't talkin' Van Alstine) to get 'em to grunt. Triangles and Avante-Gardes will run on empty, and very well, thank you! Don't forget to listen to Klipschorns -- I don't care for them, but I ain't you, AND, I haven't heard the latest iterations (6 grand, brand new) of this ancient concept. And you can scare small children 200 miles away with 2 watts.

It is a big audio world, Alex. Too big to go in debt without exploring the outer perimeters. If you must buy, then buy. But do NOT buy into the extra 10 large that powerful amplification may cost. It is not necessary.

And, oh, in case you forgot. GET OUT OF DEBT.

CECE
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Re: The saga continues

The 2 or 4 watts driving those horns scaring the kids out of town, are because younger kids have better high freq hearing, they are hearing all the crap edge and distortion of the speakers and the crappy low wattage amplifiers. You think 250W is a lot of watts, you must think it's 1931, since you are an old man you siad yourself. That's just about getting started. Every speaker benefits from more watts, and AVA watts. Since AVA watts are FAST, no distortion, and super capable, and it keeps you outa' debt, since the stuff is not priced in insanity buck$. Philco used to have some nince low powered amplifiers back in 1935.....now let's stayed FOCUSED.

bifcake
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Re: The saga continues

Hey Clifton,

I don't have any debt. I don't even have car payments. Where did you get the idea that I was in debt and I was going to plop close to 10k on a system?

As far as changing the system, I have an amp that's 200wpc into 8ohms and 4wpc into 4 ohms, so I can drive either the focus or the Whispers. It's the quality of my equipment that I was concerned with (I have Rega Planet 2k Cd player, Cary SLP 88 pre and PS Audio 200c amp) If anything, I would think that I would have to get a different amp if I were to get the Duos because they don't need the 200wpc and I'm afraid that they would pick up noise from the amp (I don't know that that would be the case, but I read that Duos are so sensitive that they pick up the hum from an amp unless the amp is top notch)

If I were to get either the Whispers or the Duos, then the electronic upgrades wouldn't happen until next year, as I would have to research what to get and find the best deals on Audiogon.

jazzfan
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Re: The saga continues


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Just buy music.

Wait, you mean to say that are people who still BUY music? Don't let the RIAA find out because then they might have to drop all those law suits.

Alex, should you also just save your money and buy a nice cheap pair of powered speakers for your computer - MP3s and all those other lossy formats do not sound all that good through quality equipment. To make an MP3 sound good you have to play the music back on a cheap computer stereo system. I only say this since you are insisting on purchasing your music and the future of music sales is online as lossy compressed files, regardless of those LPs being sold out west. LP Sales

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