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ozpomfromhell
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Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona

I just heard a very interesting thing about Arizona on the radio.
It kind of goes like this.
In Arizona the Republican candidates are fighting to see who can look the toughest nut on the right wing block.
Meanwhile Hispanics are the fastest growing section of the community.
Whilst 80% of those described as "old" are white, only 40% of children are white.
As a Hispanic Republican activist commented, if the GOP wants to alienate a family oriented, religious, socialist hating section of people, it will certainly not help their election hopes.
Statistics show that illegals are in fact reducing in number as the economy in Arizona shrinks.
Fear mongering is still rife and everything is normal in the black heart of the USA.

mark evans
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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona


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As a Hispanic Republican activist commented, if the GOP wants to alienate a family oriented, religious, socialist hating section of people, it will certainly not help their election hopes.

Unlike the democrats... Real conservative Republicans are not worried about their election hopes... it's about enforcing the Constitution they took an oath to.

ozpomfromhell
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quit whining

That's the whole message.

JIMV
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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona

70% of the country and around 40% of Hispanics approve of the law...I suspect it is and will be a net plus as long as they stand their ground. In case folk have not noticed, the Democrat Congress is the segment of society least trusted right now...11% per Gallup...Besides, sometimes folk need to do what is best for the country. Arizona is doing that even if BoBo and his crooked congress will not.

ozpomfromhell
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if you're suggesting that the Republican side of Congress is tru

... I strongly suspect you are merely trying to make a party political point.
Trying, but not succeeding.
Damn you right wingers are persistent.
I guess it makes up for not being too bright!!!

Lamont Sanford
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Re: if you're suggesting that the Republican side of Congress is

I live in a border state and nobody on either side of the political bullshit are upset with AZ.

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Re: if you're suggesting that the Republican side of Congress is

I'm so tired of people telling us who live in Arizona what we are doing wrong! We are doing what the Federal government refuses to do! Our new law mimics the federal law. Do you have a front door on your house with a lock on it. Why? Why don't you remove the door so anybody can come and go in your house as they please? Especially people from other countries, please stay out of our business. I don't tell you how to run your country, so don't tell us how to run ours. Unless you live in Arizona you do not know the problems we are having! And please try to read and be informed about all sides of the issue, not just what you hear on the typical "news station". That's how intelligent people decide what is right to do to solve a problem! You know it's like the old saying about you don't know what a person is going through until you've walked a mile in his shoes! So unless you've lived in Arizona please don't tell us what we should or should not be doing to protect Arizonans. And that includes our President, who apparantly has no idea how to solve any problems!

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Re: if you're suggesting that the Republican side of Congress is


Quote:
... I strongly suspect you are merely trying to make a party political point.
Trying, but not succeeding.
Damn you right wingers are persistent.
I guess it makes up for not being too bright!!!

Just bright enough to note that Congress now has an 11% approval and that Pelosi's private jet on the government dime might just be gone after November...

How is all that liberal self described intellectualism working for you?

Lamont Sanford
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Re: if you're suggesting that the Republican side of Congress is

'bout time. Anyway, many here in New Mexico are willing to take the same fork in the road.

ozpomfromhell
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"liberal self described intellectualism"

Are you now calling yourself a liberal?
Try this for size; when did you last hear the phrase "right wing intellectual"?
And before you try to stigmatise the word "intellectual" in that traditional nazi fashion... can you just let me fall asleep BEFORE I try to plough through your post?
Thanks.
Please try to concentrate for an entire sentence; it would help you make at least an attempt at a coherent point.
Other than that... well actually there is no other than that.
You messed up... move on.
;-)

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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona
j_j
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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona


Quote:

Unlike the democrats... Real conservative Republicans are not worried about their election hopes... it's about enforcing the Constitution they took an oath to.

Then why do they keep trying to usurp every amendment except the 2nd?

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Re: "liberal self described intellectualism"


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Are you now calling yourself a liberal?
Try this for size; when did you last hear the phrase "right wing intellectual"?

All the time when one moves away from the lefts media to the conservative media...The pretense that one needs be liberal to be an intellectual is simply a leftist conceit, like the idea that a properly spelled and grammatically perfect poor argument trumps a misspelled good argument.

The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual' and regardless of stupidity, they are keeping it.

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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona


Quote:

Quote:

Unlike the democrats... Real conservative Republicans are not worried about their election hopes... it's about enforcing the Constitution they took an oath to.

Then why do they keep trying to usurp every amendment except the 2nd?

'Usurp' as in read and understand...I can understand why that scares the left so much...

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"The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No, but.

... the desperate anti-rational section of the right have tried to vilify it in the way that "liberal' has been vilified by the flate arthy section of the American Taliban.
You guys would be hilarious if you didn't keep starting armed conflicts round the world in your part time job as hired muscle to multinationals.
And you have the nerve to talk about self-reliance!!!
Now... back to the real world.

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Re: "liberal self described intellectualism"

Harper's last month had an interesting article about Arizona and how conservatism for the last 30 years (whatever the number, it was long) has not really done any measurable good for the state.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "liberal self described intellectualism"

Isn't Harpers a Yankee magazine? What the fuck do they know about living in a border state?

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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona


Quote:
'Usurp' as in read and understand...I can understand why that scares the left so much...

Let's see some of the right's "respect" for the constitution.

Their understanding of political speech: "Everyone who disagrees with me is a traitor who should be shot"

Their understanding of the establishment clause: "If you don't believe in god, and in my god in particular, you are neither a good american nor a patriot, this is one nation under god"

Their understanding of the Equal Rights amendment: "I've got mine, up yours, whiner"

Sorry, the right as it presently instantiated has no respect for the constitution, they are, in fact, representing an anti-American, anti-Freedom movement that seeks to take us back to a perverse combination of religious rule mixed with the the old South.

No, I'm sorry, it is a LIE, a complete and absolute, utterly reprehensible, utterly vile LIE to claim that the right, as it presently exists, "understands" the constitution of the USA. What this version of the "right" wants to do is get rid of it, and take us down a road that will turn us into a nation with the christian version of Sharia, that hates science, hates freedom, and that will fall to its knees and fail miserably in the face of even the least competition.

THAT is where the right would take us. Down. Gone. Kaput.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:
... the desperate anti-rational section of the right have tried to vilify it in the way that "liberal' has been vilified by the flate arthy section of the American Taliban.
You guys would be hilarious if you didn't keep starting armed conflicts round the world in your part time job as hired muscle to multinationals.
And you have the nerve to talk about self-reliance!!!
Now... back to the real world.

You do realize that your post is gibberish...hint, it is wise to make a coherent argument when one is pretending to be intellectual.

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Re: Republicans committing political suicide in Arizona


Quote:

Quote:
'Usurp' as in read and understand...I can understand why that scares the left so much...

Let's see some of the right's "respect" for the constitution.

Their understanding of political speech: "Everyone who disagrees with me is a traitor who should be shot"

Their understanding of the establishment clause: "If you don't believe in god, and in my god in particular, you are neither a good american nor a patriot, this is one nation under god"

Their understanding of the Equal Rights amendment: "I've got mine, up yours, whiner"

Sorry, the right as it presently instantiated has no respect for the constitution, they are, in fact, representing an anti-American, anti-Freedom movement that seeks to take us back to a perverse combination of religious rule mixed with the the old South.

No, I'm sorry, it is a LIE, a complete and absolute, utterly reprehensible, utterly vile LIE to claim that the right, as it presently exists, "understands" the constitution of the USA. What this version of the "right" wants to do is get rid of it, and take us down a road that will turn us into a nation with the christian version of Sharia, that hates science, hates freedom, and that will fall to its knees and fail miserably in the face of even the least competition.

THAT is where the right would take us. Down. Gone. Kaput.

One long strawman cloaked in opinion and masquerading as a serious argument....

I could make a similar argument pretty easily, just use phrases like 'emotion', 'sedition', 'treason' and 'narrow minded' and would be every bit as legit.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,

Liberals think if they make enough noise that there must be a thesis hidden somewhere that conservatives and independents will never figure out. Well, I've found JJ's thesis.


Quote:
No, I'm sorry, it is a LIE, a complete and absolute, utterly reprehensible, utterly vile LIE to claim that the right, as it presently exists, "understands" the constitution of the USA.

I mean if it was a snake it would of bit you. Look at the pretentious capitalization of the word, "LIE", not once but twice, in case you are really stupid and didn't see it the first time. I'm utterly utterly. And no, I'm not stuttering. Check it out. Utterly. And then there is the subliminal, "understand" in quotations. You understand? And then he goes and throws a German word at the end misspelled on purpose. Shades of a Nazi? Pray tell.

All I know is that Michael had it right. This is this. This isn't something else. This is this. Except dumbass liberals like JJ are full of shit. They are always full of shit. JJ thinks this is not it. Somehow they changed it. But this is definitional not it. They changed it. Somehow they changed it. JJ couldn't find his own ass with two hands. Where the hell are your boots JJ? You bought them special. You gotta learn JJ. Every time you post up in here you got your head up ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncdlqob1QtM&feature=related

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:

Except dumbass liberals like JJ are full of shit. They are always full of shit.

Sonny-boy, I was a Goldwater supporter.

I think you had better learn what a "liberal" is, and what your right-wing, religiously-intrusive so-called "conservative" of the day really is, which is a totalitarian christian reconstructionist.

I'm not a liberal by any means. If you think I'm a liberal, then you are, frankly, mentally ill.

ozpomfromhell
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you really should take your own advice

As you will just look desperately out of your depth otherwise.

ozpomfromhell
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OOOO, he said "strawman"... gold star from the Heritage Foundati

No doubt you'll have to pay for it yourself, but at least you'll have something to stick in your record book.
Since sio much of the goggledygook from the far far right to those online activists who have been using "strawman" for the past year or so is finanjced by oil companies that they will be feeling a bit pinched these days.
Tell me something... have you been trying to say British Petroleum instead of BP?
Oh hell, who cares?
You'll probably never make sense to anyone outside your cabal.
Now go off and do whatever it is you're usually told to do.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,

Only because you're Dad made you carry that sign.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:
Only because you're Dad made you carry that sign.

You ARE mentally ill, then.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:
. . . so-called "conservative" of the day really is, which is a totalitarian christian reconstructionist.

This is the frightening part of current "conservatives."

They are not conservative. They abhor democracy and, instead, demand theonomy.

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Re: OOOO, he said "strawman"... gold star from the Heritage Foun


Quote:
No doubt you'll have to pay for it yourself, but at least you'll have something to stick in your record book.
Since sio much of the goggledygook from the far far right to those online activists who have been using "strawman" for the past year or so is finanjced by oil companies that they will be feeling a bit pinched these days.
Tell me something... have you been trying to say British Petroleum instead of BP?
Oh hell, who cares?
You'll probably never make sense to anyone outside your cabal.
Now go off and do whatever it is you're usually told to do.

More pretense aspiring to reach the level of gibberish...An argument involves more...

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:

Quote:
. . . so-called "conservative" of the day really is, which is a totalitarian christian reconstructionist.

This is the frightening part of current "conservatives."

They are not conservative. They abhor democracy and, instead, demand theonomy.

Don't you have a baby to kill rather than using big words on the Internet?

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


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Don't you have a baby to kill rather than using big words on the Internet?

Huh?

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What the "right" really is today...

During the time that the church kept the entirety of Europe in thrall via the feudal system, divine right, etc, the Moors and Arabs developed a number of things.

First was the idea of zero, a fundamental part of modern arithmetic.

Then, a fellow named Al-Jabbar figured out a way to handle mathematics symbolically. We call his development "algebra" today, due to scholars in Europe who preserved his work when it was attacked by islamic fundamentalists calling it "al jabar's method", which simply became "Algebra". This is yet another fundamental of modern society.

Finally, while the mathematics was completely destroyed and lost during the Islamic Fundamental takeover of the Moorish civilizations, we see elliptical arches of proper design, which indicates both that somehow the Moors were able to figure out the actual compressive strength of stone, AND figure out how to design a "most efficient" structure, which requires something very much like calculus. Bear in mind that they did this in the 1200's, long before Lebnitz and Newton.

All of that is lost, lost to bookburning, murdering of scholars who dared to question the "creation" of god, etc.

What do we see in the USA today? EXACTLY the same kind of idiotic nonsense. We see "creation science", which is exactly a direct, express attack on the very fundamentals of the USA's founders and the constitution, an attempt to substitute religion for science. We see "intellegent design", a slightly more sophisticated way to push the same deliberately destructive, anti-American, anti-Constitutional, anti-Founder agenda. We see the "teach the wedge" strategy, an admittedly dishonst way to attempt to usurp the scientific method, a method which the founders fully endorsed in the form of the time, i.e. the "enlightenment movement", and replace it with religious fundamentalism. We see "killing babies", a knowingly insulting, religiously tainted attempt to take control of women and women's lives away from them and hand it to men, based on the superstitious idea that a "soul", something never ONCE verified or tested successfully, is present at "conception". We see the "right wing" making endless dishonest attacks, like the fraudulent reporting around ACORN, like the fraud around the Philly voting intimidation case, like the fraudulent "news" around Obama, the "birthers", the "death panel" lies, etc.

What we see is a full-scale, deliberate attack on the United States, on our freedoms, on our constitution, and on everything the founders fought, died, and worked for, and all of this BY THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT.

Claiming that they read and "understood" the constitution, therefore, is a lie, plain and simple, and a willful, deliberate endorsement of this treachery and visible, obvious attempt to usurp the constitution of the USA.

The outcome of that, if successful, is to push us into the same kind of miserable decline that we see through the middle ages in the Arab and Moorish world, resulting in a moribund, sick society wherein everyone is miserable, and life is nasty, brutish, and short.

In short, endorsing the "right" as presently manifested in this country means that you hate human beings, and even more, you hate the United States, its founders, and its constitution.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:

Quote:
Don't you have a baby to kill rather than using big words on the Internet?

Huh?

It's called trying to "define the opposition". He's trying, without saying it directly, to insinuate that you, personally, desire to kill babies.

It's the same tactic the thoroughly dishonest, utterly sinful religious right uses relentlessly through its mouthpieces from Palin, Hannity, and St. Bill of O'Riley, to its founders like Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:
It's called trying to "define the opposition". He's trying, without saying it directly, to insinuate that you, personally, desire to kill babies.

Absolutely correct.

And by stating "huh?" I force him to say it out loud.

Of course he won't make his "argument" transparent, but I enjoy calling his bluff.

What I don't understand is the level of fear underlying the beliefs and actions of the Christian Right.

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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:

What I don't understand is the level of fear underlying the beliefs and actions of the Christian Right.

It's not fear, it's hate.

They are miserable. We are not. Therefore, they wish us to be miserable because they said so.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:
In short, endorsing the "right" as presently manifested in this country means that you hate human beings, and even more, you hate the United States, its founders, and its constitution.

While I wouldn't put it quite like that, JJ, the Enlightenment and its influence on the Founding Fathers of this country and the writing of its Constitution seem not to be widely appreciated in the US.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:

While I wouldn't put it quite like that, JJ, the Enlightenment and its influence on the Founding Fathers of this country and the writing of its Constitution seem not to be widely appreciated in the US.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile


As is in evidence time and time again with the lie of "American is a Christian Country".

That would shock the **** out of Franklin and Paine, and, well, I'm not so sure how they would deal with Jefferson's Gnostic Heresy, either.

And, the reason I do put it like that is because of the number of times, here and elsewhere, I've been accused of being a "commie", a "leftist", told I'm a traitor who coddles islamic nutters, etc.

Why? Because I dared to debate the issue of "The USA is a Christian Country", or dared to question the FUD put out after 9-11, or the insane foray into Iraq that broke the balance in the Middle East, put Iran, who is much more the dangerous religious extremist country, in the drivers seat, and gave the Taliban and Al Quaida a whole new country of disadvantaged people to recruit from.

The foray into Iraq is still, in my estimation, likely to be the final end for the United States of America, in the same way that the USSR died, from bankruptcy.

We hear a lot of nonsense about Obama's budget, what we KNOW is being deliberately, dishonestly omitted is that his budget was necessetated in great part by Bush's foolish adventurism.

Note that I said NOTHING about going into Afghanistan. We were doing fine there until we QUIT for all practical purposes and went after Iraq.

Lamont Sanford
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Re: "The left granted themselves the title 'intellectual'": No,


Quote:
And by stating "huh?" I force him to say it out loud.

*Pointing gun at my own head* One move and the nigger gets it! Do as he say! Do as he Say!

JJ: Hold on men. I think he means it.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:

Quote:
In short, endorsing the "right" as presently manifested in this country means that you hate human beings, and even more, you hate the United States, its founders, and its constitution.

While I wouldn't put it quite like that, JJ, the Enlightenment and its influence on the Founding Fathers of this country and the writing of its Constitution seem not to be widely appreciated in the US.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

If one actually bothered to read the founders, especially the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, one would be hard pressed to find much that resembles today's left..

Liberty and personal freedom were the watchwords of the day, not big government or high taxation.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:
If one actually bothered to read the founders, especially the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, one would be hard pressed to find much that resembles today's left.

Much less, today's Christian Right.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...

You mean Infidels. Go ahead and just say it.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


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You mean Infidels. Go ahead and just say it.

Just more verbal violence from the lunatic fringe, I see.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:

If one actually bothered to read the founders, especially the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, one would be hard pressed to find much that resembles today's left..

Wow, three fallacies and a straw man in one sentence.

1) The federalist papers are not the only information we have
2) Ditto the anti-Federalist views.
3) "Today's Left" is "defining the opponent" via the now-old deliberate hate-speech of "liberals hate america"
4)You insinuate that one has not read what the founders said and did.

The facts are clear, really. The founders were part of the enlightenment movement, and were the absolute anthesis of today's "creation science" and "The Bell Curve" kinds of thinking. The founders were not all deists, or non-deists, or theists, or non-theists of various kinds. They were varied in their religious views, unlike today's right, which wishes to enforce biblical literalism on us, just like the Sharia Law proponents do in some Islamic countries.

They are not very different, except, (yet) in their influence in the government.

Their public and avowed goal is to drag this country down like the Moors and Arabs were dragged into misery by Islamic fundamentalists.

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I can supply you with a wet paper bag...

... to argue your way out of if you are looking for a fair fight.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:
You mean Infidels. Go ahead and just say it.

Nope, I really do mean Christian Right.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:
The facts are clear, really. The founders were part of the enlightenment movement.

Facts, really huh? I always thought they were very righteous motherfuckers that got tired of idiots like JJ with their stupid enlightenment ideas. some of which are poor fiscal responsibility, labor unions, hatred of Christians, and what else? Lets see? Oh, yeah. Taxation without representation. And a lot of it. They certainly didn't see the Bill of Rights other than what was written on it. Same thing with the Constitution. You guys keep up your bullshit about Christians and I'm going to start using the N word again.

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Re: What the "right" really is today...


Quote:

Quote:

If one actually bothered to read the founders, especially the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, one would be hard pressed to find much that resembles today's left..

Wow, three fallacies and a straw man in one sentence.

1) The federalist papers are not the only information we have
2) Ditto the anti-Federalist views.

Absolutely true...they are only the best references, not all the references, but as the left is notorious for not even reading those basic documents BUT of having definitive opinions on constitutional issues, I stand by my comment.


Quote:
3) "Today's Left" is "defining the opponent" via the now-old deliberate hate-speech of "liberals hate america"
4)You insinuate that one has not read what the founders said and did.

Not hate America but see it as a malleable clay to be remade in a new image, European socialism, our traditions be damned.


Quote:
The facts are clear, really. The founders were part of the enlightenment movement, and were the absolute anthesis of today's "creation science" and "The Bell Curve" kinds of thinking. The founders were not all deists, or non-deists, or theists, or non-theists of various kinds. They were varied in their religious views, unlike today's right, which wishes to enforce biblical literalism on us, just like the Sharia Law proponents do in some Islamic countries.

Has nothing at all to do with the subject of the thread, Arizona's new law...It also confuses the Enlightenment with 20th century secularism..

You have confused an anti-religion agenda with the topic of illegal immigration, some wild stretch.

JIMV
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Re: I can supply you with a wet paper bag...


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... to argue your way out of if you are looking for a fair fight.

I think you grant yourself WAY too much ability

j_j
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Re: What the "right" really is today...


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Has nothing at all to do with the subject of the thread, Arizona's new law...


Well, then, why did we see the lie that only modern, fanatical religious right types "understand" the constitution?

Oh, do tell.

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It also confuses the Enlightenment with 20th century secularism..


Stuff and nonsense, to say the least. Your running about to "secularism" is just hoping that your utterly counterfactual statement will look good to somebody who doesn't know what the enlightenment was.

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You have confused an anti-religion agenda with the topic of illegal immigration, some wild stretch.

And another counterfactual falsehood. What the truth of the matter is, simply put, is not an 'anti-religion" agenda, but in fact a "pro-religion agenda" on the part of modern radical reactionaries like the present "right", an agenda much like that which destroyed the Arabic and Moorish civilizations.

The current "right" hates America, hates freedom, and hates the constitution with a vengence.

Yet, what do we see? False claims that they are the only ones to "understand" it. Well, they do understand it, and the principles the USA was founded on, and they hate both with a traitorous, abiding rage.

Why do you hate America, JIMV?

Lamont Sanford
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Re: What the "right" really is today...


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Why do you hate America, JIMV?

Christ, you're such a hypocrite on top of being intolerant of anybody that disagrees with you. Only you get freedom of expression.

JIMV
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Re: What the "right" really is today...


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Quote:

Has nothing at all to do with the subject of the thread, Arizona's new law...


Well, then, why did we see the lie that only modern, fanatical religious right types "understand" the constitution?

Not my comment...as the thread is not in any way about religion, I assume you created a strawman and ran with it...

j_j
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Re: What the "right" really is today...


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Quote:
Why do you hate America, JIMV?

Christ, you're such a hypocrite on top of being intolerant of anybody that disagrees with you. Only you get freedom of expression.

Oh, look, you made up another one!

You can express your anti-American attitudes. This is, after all, America.

Geeze.

I just get to point out your actual agenda, too. That's also, American.

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