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Yiangos
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A quick explanation about cables

I am no reviewer.You know this allready.With my limited English,based on personal experience,i will try to pass to you my thoughts about cables and if anyone wants to add or comment about something,he/she is welcome.If you do not understand something i say,please ask me to repeat it in Greek.I will leave behind lots of things.Just want you to know this is my personal "rough quide" .
First-of-all , cables do make a difference.Problem is,not all of us can hear those difference. Why ? Let's categorize
those differences first.
a) Smoother sound
b) extended bass and treble
c) forward or laid back sound
d) soundstage,depth of field,etc etc etc
A is the easiest one to hear and all it takes is to make a quick test.B is not that easy to hear because if one has small standmounts with limited frequency response,he won;t be able to understand the improvement.
c and d are the hardest to understand,especially d.People are much less sensitive to foroward ir laid back sound.You need to have trained ears to perceive those changes and the only way someone without great experience to understand this is to allready have a laid back sounding system and his music prefferences to be,say hard rock.Now,as i said,D is the toughest one.You need to have a reasonably good system,a trouble free room and your system to be set-up correctly. This is one of the main reason ppl do not perceive those changes the expensive cables do,exactly because those cables do their best in the D area and since cheaper cables allready begin to make changes in the A,B and C area,going upmarket is harder to realise those changes
Another common mistake is the expectation that expensive cables can do all the difference in the world.Wrong !This is where the "diminissing returns" thing kicks in.A good $100 ic can make a hell of an improvement over a stock one.
A $800 one can make quite an improvement over a $100,yet this is where one begins to wonder if those extra $700 are worth the while.Now,a $10000 can give you the last ounce of extension,detail etc but how many of us have the right system to appreciate this,let alone the money to purchase one !Make no mistake,it doeas make a difference.You're just paying those extra $9200 to get 1-2% improvement.If you can afford it,by no means,go ahead !
last thing i want to say is most ppl use cables(and by cables i mean both speaker and ic) as tone controls.This is wrong although as a last resort,we all do it from time to time.A good cables should not add or subtract anything from the signal that passes through it.
I am not going to type anything more for 2 reasons.First,i want you to actually read this and if it gets too long,you wont and second,i am too lazy to write anything more lol
Okay,i am waiting for comments.

59mga
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

An EXCELLENT explanation! Thank you, Yiangos. Finally a descriptive, but not technically overburdened, clarification of what cables do and don't do.
Sorry DUP, but there is some logic here.

ohfourohnine
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Waiting for comments, Yiangos? Here's one: You've covered the subject about as well and as completely as anyone can - apart from our friend DUP, of course. Great summation! I can't imagine you could have done much better in Greek.

Bravo,

CECE
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Audioholics.com read all about cable scams and snake oil.... Especially the ones that have the monthly "breakthrough" that no body else realized but them. Pieces of wires with stuff hanging off em, batteries, capacitors, resistors, special blends of insulation. and cables themed of the month, rivers, mountains, reptiles,ancient sun gods, besides it is all GREEK to me, how wires matter. Biggest factor in a good wire is that it's long enough to reach both points of connection. Any cables yet with built in vacuum pumps, maybe they need one with a nitrogen tank attached, to continually charge the cable, like the phone lines out on the pole. Nitrogen insulation, no one has it yet, maybe next month? When are critter cables coming. Raccoon, Squirrl, possumm,woodcheck..AQ has most everyother themed cable out there, then it goes to discount online sellers, when the thrill is gone.

Yiangos
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Dup.i suppose you are referring to Audioquest cables,right?
I have 2 pair i was given as a present from an audio dealer.
Both discontinued now.They are the worst cable i ever brought home.They seriously lack in dynamics,so much,i could go as far as to say they are completely flat.
Anyway,that was a long time ago.Maybe the newest ones are better. Now,do yourse;f a favor and stop acting like a "armchair reviewer" of old days and i say "old days" because i want to believe no one is doing this anymore.
Instead of searching the web to find articles that debunk hi-fi equipment,go to a dealer and ask him to lend you a few cables and have a listen.Something i seriously doubt you ever did.

tandy
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Audioholics, right DUP. And who advertises at their site? So who do they represent?

With the internet allowing lots of new companies to compete with the midfis on a somewhat equal footing, who do you think is losing business share? How would they like to improve their share?

Well, some of the major midfis are charging some pretty hefty prices to compete with the Hi end boys.

Or maybe by pushing the notion that midfi is as good as high fi? By adding more features for easier use? Of course, they would have to "advertise" that complexity does NOT mean lower audio quality.

So they would have to come within an eyebrow of saying that their products are perfect, no matter how many stages are used, because only four or five things matter in audio reproduction.
Hmmmm, that sounds like what I have read from some articles (from links) and stated on the forum lately.

Elk
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Nicely stated, Yiangos. And your English is excellent.

Perhaps this will start a reasoned discussion rather than the typical fanatical, near religious, argument that is useless on both sides.

What is interesting to me is that there are so many objectivists - such as Frank Van Alstine - that have rejected the concept that cables make a difference, and yet find that upon careful listening they prefer the "specialty cable". Frank issued a challenge to cable makers to send him cables. Ray Kimber did.

Frank couldn't measure any difference between his cheap cables and interconnects and the Kimbers, but concluded he liked the sound better and kept the Kimbers in his reference system. It bugged him; he couldn't figure out why the cables sounded better to him, but they did.

This was back in the early '90's. Frank wrote about it in his newsletter at the time. It may be on his website.

I appreciate Frank's willingness to try even though he believed that high end cables are nonsense. This is what a true objectivist does. He tries things out with an open mind and tries to learn. He doesn't decide what his conclusion will be in advance.

Frank also described Ray Kimber as rational and likeable. Two enthusiasts that disagreed but who could treat each other with respect - something we need a lot more of in this hobby.

A challenge for everyone - keep the rhetoric down, the snide comments to your self and keep on point. The first post is excellent. Let's keep it going.

Rdrcr
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

Call me crazy, but I certainly have heard the difference between my old Monster Cables and the new AudioQuest (Jaguar) interconnects and Nordost speaker cables. The sound is clearly more smooth, open, and detailed.

Mike

CECE
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

You're crazy....those big cats series are now replaced by mountains and rivers, and some battery powred nonsense. If they got it right on yours why do these magic cable companies keep reinventing the crap? Tara has vacuum and air for insulation, claiming each is the way to go, how can that be? Oh, here we go, depends on what component is being connectted riiiight? Maybe what kind of music ? hahahahahahahaha.

CECE
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

AVA also said it may also be the effect of knowing it's changed, why would he be imune from that self influence, yet he is smart enough to know that's probbaly why. Kimber, AQ, Tara, Crystal Cable, Zen, Harmonix,siltech, the magazines are filled to teh brim with more pieces of wire than real components, guess where teh profit is? and all these magic wire scammers claim THERE version of magic is the real fix, for a problem, that don't exist. Go to NeedleDoctor.com...more pieces of wire than anything I ever seen in one place, how can all them different things be teh right way to make magic sounds?

Yiangos
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Re: A quick explanation about cables

What took you so long ?!?!?!?!?

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