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mapper94
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Re: Was a skeptic

There clearly needs to be proper balance between the various components in any hi-fi system. A fictitious system made up of an entry level CD player from i.e. Cambridge is used with a high end pre-amp, amp and speakers i.e. B&W 801s. This imbalanced system will let you hear all too well the shortcomings of your source. I think it makes sense that your source should always be equal to or slightly better than the rest of your system. If you have a leak from a toxic waste dump upstream it makes no sense to filter the water downstream...

CECE
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Re: Was a skeptic

Speaking of the source, what if they recorded it with non audio grade wall outlets? What if the drill press, used mere standard grade conenctors for the power supplying the lathes, drills etc. the source is relegated to improper sound before it's finished, you cannot retrieve the missing information that those non audio grade wall outlets either covered up, or caused electron skip, yupper, ?I just created another cool sounding term, I am going to start making audio grade wall outlets that eliminate "electron skip". This is when the electrons don't realize they is doing audio today, not toaster work, they need to be in sync with the music, not "skip" notes, harmonys etc. Musical electrons, saved with audio grade wall devices. If you can hear it, it must be true.....if you can't hear it, it's still true. Cus' I didn't, so it didn't happen. I signed on for a utility surcharge, they deliver audio grade electrons, it goes through some sort of sorter at teh generation facility. There is an extra charge on my bill for this service.

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Cus' ya can't label a product as something that doesn't exist!!! If it does exist it's usually to a set of standards, and specs, what are the standards used in "audio grade" wall outlets, besides how big teh word is on the wiring device? UL, NEMA, has no classification for any such devices. What is it?

mrlowry
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

The audibility of power cords is starling! I've been playing around recently with stupid expensive cords and I must say the differences can be shocking (no pun intended). The main argument against power cords being able to create audible difference is that the power cord is NOT in the signal path, this is false. An amplifier, for example simply modulates the power coming out of the wall to produce a larger version of the signal that it receives as an input. Hence the power supply is in the signal path. Hence, in my opinion the power cord IS in the signal path in a very real sense.

Interestingly this theory of mine was helped to form by McIntosh labs who believes that their power supplies are in the signal path and are major contributors to that "MAC sound." What's ironic is that McIntosh doesn't believe in highend speaker cables or interconnects, let alone power cords. Mac has been very public about this belief. Only recently at trade shows did they start using better interconnects and speaker cable, just to "shut people up." The IEC socket of a removable power cord does compromise the connection slightly but allows for much better power cables to be used, a slight step backwards for the possibility of a couple of major steps forwards. But the same cord soldered directly to the power supply versus being removable and connected to an IEC socket would be the best solution.

Other arguments brought against power cords have to do with the fact that the last 6 feet can

CECE
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

The line cords supplied on my equipment are rated to carry the load of the device, thus the current gets there in time, just fine. Current doesn't move any faster based on the guage of a line cord. My house wiring is not in EMT it's NM wire. If teh AC line cord is not of teh proper guage, it's time to call the fire dept. All this oersized line cord gets squeezed down once inside, through a very tiny tiny fuse element, depending on teh rating, it's pretty tiny comparred to the oversized unnecessary line cord, open up the equipment, it's pretty basic wire. I'm sure you installed some audio grade FUSES, one ad I seen recently sure is trying to sell me that hoopla. Audio grade fuses, again NEMA has no such designation, it is therefore made up nonsense. What happens if you put an audio grade fuse in a non audio grade fuse holder? My 4 amps have a nice nonaudio graded 14 ga. line cord, it supplies any current the MASSIVE line transformers need. Non audio grade cord cap too. Take any magic line cord connected to some underpowered amplifier, it is still under powered, with no benefit of magic wire. Putting a 6 ga. line cord on a device fused at 10 A or so is utter NONSENSE. My amps are fused at 15A, uses 14ga line cord. Less powerful ones are 16ga line cord fused at 10A...thus it works, it's properly designed. Pre amp is fused for 7A or so, Uses like an 18ga line cord, 18ga SPT is good for about 10A..16 out to maybe 13A.14 for the bigger stuff. Put a 12ga cord on a Cd player which is fused for under 1A...total nonsense. Speaking of McIntosh, have you seen their latest marketing attempt, the 3 chassis amplifier? How is that gonna make it sound better, by adding all that extra connections, WIRE etc, one chassis less connections. Less poor sound issues, less is always better. If your AC wall devices has electricy "jumping" with some poor connection issues, you have more problems than bad sound beleifs..you better change them out, cus' it's a fire waiting to happen. I would guarantee you will not hear teh difference between a residential grade wiring device or a commercial grade, or hospital grade. You might hear an improvment if you have such worn out devices that they don't stay put, in which case get some residential grade Leviton, P&S about 89 cents each, you will lessen teh fire hazzard, and improve your amplifers abilty to receive full 120 line voltge, that's merley correcting a DEFECTIVE wiring device, not any magic. There is no sound in a piece of wire. Only profits.

tandy
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Since you seem to understand how electricity works, DUP, would you mind informing us about electron flow, energy flow?

CECE
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Energy doesn't flooooow...Energy exists, energy can only be transformed, it cannot be made less, it cannot be made more...think about it. all our devices merely TRANSFORM energy into one type to another, heat, mechanical, etc...the earth is one big recycle ball, the energy just keeps getting transformed..using oversized conductors on your stereo over and above the rated ampactiry for what the electrical device needs ain't making no electrons getting anywhere any faster....where do these bizzare ideas start? a 6ga cord on a device that is fused for about !A or less for CD players is such bizzare thinking, it baffles me....Do you feel the energy in a standard hair drier, they maybe are 1000W or 1200W...do you feel the HEAT energy, it's happening with about a 16ga SPT1 cord...all that heat energy brought to you with a standard 16ga piece of wire, if you where to put a 6ga cord on that same drier, the heating elements will still product the same heat output, use the same wattage, the heat will not be any faster, better or different....study some basic electical concpts and you will understand. When you drive a loudspeaker, you are driving teh voice coil at a volage with current flowing through the coil....it is AC, so Ohms law is not used it has IMPEDANCE since it is an AC signal...Xl, Xc and some DC resistance, the amount of volts, current etc..watts, determines teh size of the wire, no magic anything, it really is all logical...no amount of ads will change the concpet about what size wire for what size speakers, from what size amps delivering the current to make teh drivers move....Electrons do not know if they are causing a heating element to glow, or making a loudspeaker move , electrons are pretty dumb that way. No amount of nonsese changes the facts, which where discovered a long long long time ago..Mr. Ohm, Mr. Ampere, Mr. voltaire. Gauss made the magnets work to produce motion when current is applied, and then the law of magnetic flux I think it's the right hand rule...no amount of BS changes it, not from Ps Audio, not from Shunyata, not any Kimber magic wire, or Cardas...one constant is CURRENT needs COPPER....1Amp of current does not need 6Ga of copper, they figured that all out over 100 years ago.....just becuase this is audio, doesn't change the concepts. If I put a 6 ga cord on my GE washer which has a pretty small dia, line cord, for driving a 1/2 HP moter and some control ckts, will it wash better, will i see whiter whites, bluer blues, the analogy with improved sound with absurd sized line cords and oversized speaker cords is the same thing. It really is

Scrith
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

I was skeptical also. I purchased a PS Audio Statement power cord and it certainly seemed to make the sound coming out of my speakers sound a bit clearer and stronger.

Then I tried plugging my computer in using it. No difference as far as the computer goes. Except, amazingly, my AM radio (that sits next to my computer) actually works while the computer is on. Previously it was impossible to make out the words of the news radio station I usually have it tuned to, but now I could hear it very clearly. The difference was huge, anybody on Earth could hear the difference like night and day, and all that changed was a power cord.

So, these power cables are definitely doing something. And if it helps my AM radio, perhaps it helps other components such as a DAC or CD Player?

tandy
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Joined: May 24 2006 - 3:57pm
Re: Power Cord Experiment

DUP, it looks like you either haven't bothered to read a basic, 1st year electronics engineering text book, your reading some basic handbook without substance, or you have been listening to some quack(s).

May I suggest, as a beginning, reading "Semiconductor and Tube Electronics, An Introduction" by James G. Brazee, 1968. It was used as a text for colleges and universities.

The first chapter "Device Physics" might elighten you a little. Then continue searching for more and updated info about current/energy flow through a wire.

Would be much appreciated.

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