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mmole
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Power Cord Experiment

I've never used anything but stock power cords. I'm intrigued by the Shunyata Venom $99 cord that is supposedly a low-price introduction to the difference a quality cord can make. With this price and a money-back guarantee I'm going to try it out. My question is where in the system would the cord be expected to make the most improvement: DAC? Transport? Pre-Amp? Phono stage? Or am I falling victim to the hype?

Thanks.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

The audible benefits may vary depending on the power supplies of the different components. I have put aftermarket cords on all the gear in my system and the cumulative effect has been stunning. You may hear the greatest difference on your power amp, but you should try each component (perhaps the transport next) to hear what yields the greatest improvement. Listen for changes in pitch definition or impact of the bass and reduction of grain in the treble and midrange.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:
Ok, THAT is hilarious, the power cable will never, ever, ever affect ANYTHING, trust me.

Evidence people, proof relies of evidence.

I'm just sharing what I've heard in my system; the great sound coming from it is enough proof for me... and at least I have the balls to stand behind my convictions and experiences and not hide behind anonymity.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

The miles of wire from the power plant argument is irrelevant; as far as your audio gear is concerned, power starts at the step-down transformer at your utility pole/house/circuit breaker.

I'm sorry you don't hear differences - you might be missing out on better sound.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Must be because it's cold in Canada.

In any case, the step-down transformer at the utility pole isn't terribly far from your home.

Some of us hear differences, and some don't. You're obviously in the latter camp - the main difference is you feel the need to be right and prove others wrong - I'm content to enjoy my music.

Monty
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

This must be the same guy that is suffering from the subwoofer problem in the Rant and Rave forum.

Some people are destined to spend a lifetime in Circuit City trying out the volume controls.

dcrowe
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:

The miles of wire from the power plant argument is irrelevant; as far as your audio gear is concerned, power starts at the step-down transformer at your utility pole/house/circuit breaker.

I don't see any technical reason to accept that statement. Can you provide one?

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Prior to the step-down transformer near your home, you don't have the 120VAC that would feed your gear.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/power.htm

As you'll see, things really do kind of start at your circuit breaker (well almost... your meter at least) which is why I contend that the miles of wire before that point are not a good argument.

dcrowe
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:
Prior to the step-down transformer near your home, you don't have the 120VAC that would feed your gear.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/power.htm

As you'll see, things really do kind of start at your circuit breaker (well almost... your meter at least) which is why I contend that the miles of wire before that point are not a good argument.

I understand how it works, Jeff. You also have a step-down transformer in your amplifier after the power cord, so by this argument the power cord would be irrelevant! The power pole transformer does not fully isolate you from the miles of wire between you and the power company.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Devon - The point I was trying to make is that the 155,000 to 765,000 volts and 7,200 volts traveling over the "the miles of cheap ass [censored] cable" is not something your gear deals with directly, and should not really be part of the "power cord makes no difference" argument. The 120 VAC that your equipment has to meet and greet comes from relatively close to the home; this is the form of juice your gear first faces. Forgive me, but, it seems to me that your statement, "You also have a step-down transformer in your amplifier after the power cord, so by this argument the power cord would be irrelevant!" is a sophism at best. The conversion that you're referring to is something that your gear itself is responsible for changing; the power cord is dealing directly with the 120 VAC in question and is not irrelevant in this instance. The gear is taking this AC and converting it to DC. I hadn't intended to get myself embroiled in a pointless cable agnostics versus cable believers thread. All I was doing was sharing my own experiences.

My original statement was qualified. Note the use of "may" - I can't know what the results in another system will be. But, I was suggesting things one should listen for, to see if there was an audible benefit:

"The audible benefits may vary depending on the power supplies of the different components. I have put aftermarket cords on all the gear in my system and the cumulative effect has been stunning. You may hear the greatest difference on your power amp, but you should try each component (perhaps the transport next) to hear what yields the greatest improvement. Listen for changes in pitch definition or impact of the bass and reduction of grain in the treble and midrange."

I've taken the time to actually listen to the aftermarket power cords in my system to discover for myself whether or not there is a worthwhile change. I try not to dismiss things based on paper theory without actually trying myself. All I can tell you is this - in my system, some aftermarket power cords make a meaningful & significant difference. As the car ads say, "Your mileage may vary."

dcrowe
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:
Devon - The point I was trying to make is that the 155,000 to 765,000 volts and 7,200 volts traveling over the "the miles of cheap ass [censored] cable" is not something your gear deals with directly, and should not really be part of the "power cord makes no difference" argument. The 120 VAC that your equipment has to meet and greet comes from relatively close to the home; this is the form of juice your gear first faces. Forgive me, but, it seems to me that your statement, "You also have a step-down transformer in your amplifier after the power cord, so by this argument the power cord would be irrelevant!" is a sophism at best. The conversion that you're referring to is something that your gear itself is responsible for changing; the power cord is dealing directly with the 120 VAC in question and is not irrelevant in this instance. The gear is taking this AC and converting it to DC. I hadn't intended to get myself embroiled in a pointless cable agnostics versus cable believers thread. All I was doing was sharing my own experiences.

My original statement was qualified. Note the use of "may" - I can't know what the results in another system will be. But, I was suggesting things one should listen for, to see if there was an audible benefit:

"The audible benefits may vary depending on the power supplies of the different components. I have put aftermarket cords on all the gear in my system and the cumulative effect has been stunning. You may hear the greatest difference on your power amp, but you should try each component (perhaps the transport next) to hear what yields the greatest improvement. Listen for changes in pitch definition or impact of the bass and reduction of grain in the treble and midrange."

I've taken the time to actually listen to the aftermarket power cords in my system to discover for myself whether or not there is a worthwhile change. I try not to dismiss things based on paper theory without actually trying myself. All I can tell you is this - in my system, some aftermarket power cords make a meaningful & significant difference. As the car ads say, "Your mileage may vary."

Jeff,

You are quoting a bunch of stuff that was sent by Anonymous, not by me. I only point out that you cannot ignore those miles of power cable. That is why PS Audio and others sell "regenerators".

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

My take on chords is that they CAN make a difference depending upon many variables. I was doing some computer recording and as we all know computer power supplies are awful, and an MIT power chord ($55) gave me an extra 10db of noise reduction which is not isignificant. No one makes replacement, upgraded power supplies for HP so I was stuck.

In a nice piece of gear with a great power supply it may not make a difference. For me to drop hundreds of dollars it would have to be something. I have seen improvement in Panamax and Monster Power units. Once you get into the power regeneration the prices really jump. I think it would be good to try before you buy. What I do find interesting is that many hear sonic improvements in changing the line freq from 60 hz to 80-90 hz. This is intriguing science to me and worth really looking into. Any clean up of the power line cannot be a bad thing, but again, you must have a system with the resolving power to hear these differences. If you listen on a headphone system more, this could be easier to hear.

Monty
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

I've not experimented with power cords only because my gear doesn't have IEC terminations. Given my predisposition to experiment, this is probably a blessing and saves me from myself.

I think a big part of any improvement in power cords and regeneration is in removing rf and emi noise from the components. If you place your ear near your speaker with the components turned on, but with no music playing, most people will probably hear the white noise running through their system. This is bound to result in a certain amount of degradation of the playback. To what extent is likely different for each system and location, as well as each listener.

Since I haven't experimented with this, I would be real curious to hear from those that have with regard to the ellimination of this line noise with improved cords and power regeneration, irrespective of whether audible improvements were noted during playback.

Jim Tavegia
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

You might look in the stereophile archieves concerning product testing over the last few years. They have tested a few units and the findings were interesting. Some actually made things worse. I think one was from Mickey and just changing out one unit of mfg for another. If you look in the components the writers used you can bet it made a difference in their systems.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:

Quote:
Devon - The point I was trying to make is that the 155,000 to 765,000 volts and 7,200 volts traveling over the "the miles of cheap ass [censored] cable" is not something your gear deals with directly, and should not really be part of the "power cord makes no difference" argument. The 120 VAC that your equipment has to meet and greet comes from relatively close to the home; this is the form of juice your gear first faces. Forgive me, but, it seems to me that your statement, "You also have a step-down transformer in your amplifier after the power cord, so by this argument the power cord would be irrelevant!" is a sophism at best. The conversion that you're referring to is something that your gear itself is responsible for changing; the power cord is dealing directly with the 120 VAC in question and is not irrelevant in this instance. The gear is taking this AC and converting it to DC. I hadn't intended to get myself embroiled in a pointless cable agnostics versus cable believers thread. All I was doing was sharing my own experiences.

My original statement was qualified. Note the use of "may" - I can't know what the results in another system will be. But, I was suggesting things one should listen for, to see if there was an audible benefit:

"The audible benefits may vary depending on the power supplies of the different components. I have put aftermarket cords on all the gear in my system and the cumulative effect has been stunning. You may hear the greatest difference on your power amp, but you should try each component (perhaps the transport next) to hear what yields the greatest improvement. Listen for changes in pitch definition or impact of the bass and reduction of grain in the treble and midrange."

I've taken the time to actually listen to the aftermarket power cords in my system to discover for myself whether or not there is a worthwhile change. I try not to dismiss things based on paper theory without actually trying myself. All I can tell you is this - in my system, some aftermarket power cords make a meaningful & significant difference. As the car ads say, "Your mileage may vary."

Jeff,

You are quoting a bunch of stuff that was sent by Anonymous, not by me. I only point out that you cannot ignore those miles of power cable. That is why PS Audio and others sell "regenerators".

Devon - I'm aware I was making references to things addressed by Anonymous, but you called into question something I said in reply to him. I felt my answer to you had to include this. In the grand scheme of things, every little thing probably does make a difference. My point, simply, was the 120 VAC starts at the utility pole. The first time this electricity is in a form your component can process is after the utility pole transformer... maybe we're just getting into semantics. There may be contaminants riding on the line during the 7200 V part of the trip, and that may have some bearing on what happens to the 120 V, but that 120 V comes into being only at that point (contaminants and all) seemingly negating the higher voltage version that precedes it... it would be the same as having a 120 VAC generator at the utility pole.

I hear improvements without regeneration. Those 6 feet of aftermarket cord make a difference in my system. Skeptics often cite that this cannot be because of all those miles of wire. Maybe it's just that there are other factors at play (inductance, capacitance, resistance, RF, EMI, etc.) as well.

Anyway, I feel like I'm spinning in circles here. I'm done.

bjh
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Isn't it amazing that more often than not the fellows making the "miles and miles of wiring" argument seem totally oblivious to the existence of the stepdown transformer near their abode? I suppose they think the power lines carry 120V all the way from the generation station!

Then how about trivial details such as using, even if it is only in the last few feet, a cable constructed as a twisted pair, or better, four conductors in the star quad arrangement, for natural attenuation of EMI and RFI present on the line.

But no! For these guys, who more often that not claim *science* is *on their side* or some similar nonsense, appears oblivious to the basic facts!

mmole
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Since I started this thread with a simple question I'd like to report back on how the "experiment" worked out. I bought the $99 Shunyata. There is no question in my mind that replacing the stock cord from my BAT VK-3i pre-amp made an audible difference and is an improvement. I'm hearing details on recordings that I had not heard before (mostly rhythm guitar and piano) which I assume is the result of lowering the noise floor. I would think that diminishing returns set in quickly here so I'm not dreaming of $3,000 cords but this is a nice $99 tweak. With a money-back guarantee it's worth a try even if the science isn't clear or intuitive.

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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Hi, Roy E.,

There's an even cheaper tweak if you're not intimidated by "rolling your own". This is every bit as effective, and just over half the price:

I bought a Venom power cord and one each of the Marinco hospital grade plugs and Wattgate 320 IEC connectors.

I cut the Venom cord into two cords just the right length, and attached the connectors (which are the same connectors used on Shunyata's "Copperhead" cords). Voila! TWO nice power cords for my preamp and my power amp!

I bought the connectors from Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com), which is local for me.

If you make your own cords just pay attention to the proper wire connections, and connect the outer shield only at the "wall" end of the cord.

Ken

spampup
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

Oops! By "just over half the price" I meant PER CORD, of course!

Colnmary
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Converted from negative to Positive!

I started out as an unbeliever in Power Cords until yesterday.

A few weeks ago my wife asked what I wanted for my birthday. I thought matching Power Cords would be nice to match my Connects and Speaker Cables. (Yes I was just matching cosmetics) These were all after market ones. I had got a pair free with a Loudspeaker purchase and liked the build quality and look. I personally heard no change in sound quality though my wife says she heard a huge improvement with the speaker cables.

So yesterday I got my Power Cables. Hooked them up and turned on my stereo. Waited a few minutes and put on a favourate CD. The CD "Bic Runga" Beautiful Collision always had what I thought to be wooly midbass. I loved the cd and its in my daily rotation, but it always seemed to my ears that the mid bass was rather too forward and kind of lumpy. To my astonishment it was gone. The vocals also became more center stage and slightly more forward in the mix.The Trebble always clear and extended,( Ribbon Tweeters) now was sweeter and just as detailed. Now I had changed nothing other than all THREE Power Cords with After Market ones. I was surprised and waited until my wife came home and after dinner, I asked her to put on a cd and after one song, tell me if she noticed anything different at all.

I had NOT told her, if I had heard anything different and had only commented on how amazing the Cables build quality was, as these things could be used to power an Arc Welder!!

My wife put on the White Album by The Beatles. After one song I asked her what she thought. She noticed and described the EXACT same changes in sound I had heard,using a different cd.

She said it in different language too, but noticed the three major changed I had heard.

1. Tighter Bass.
2. Slightly more forward vocals and larger sweet spot.
3 Warmer and more realistist cymbol sounds.

Now no one is more surprised than me.

I still can't wrap my mind around WHY the changes happened.

I am an IT guy, so usually reject 'magic' cables etc etc

But we both like different music and both listened using music that we liked individually, and Described exactly the same sound differences. In different ways.

The sceptic in me says, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The music lover in me, appreciates my wifes excellent gift to me for my birthday.

Colnmary
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I never spent $100, try less than half that figure, and It was a present. So I am not complaining.

Next time your wife or a close friend buys you a gift, tell them you could have made it.

Colnmary
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Re: Power Cord Experiment

I was a deeply engrained skeptic. Was converted buy buying Power cords as a present for myself, kindly donated by my wife for my 50th.
I heard profound differences.

My wife came home and heard the Same profound differences, without any discussion and on different music.

I am still stunned and trying to understand why.

glen999
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

newbie's question:
so, what kind of power cords i should buy?

Jeff Wong
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

What sort of budget did you have in mind? There are varying prices and performance available at several levels, new and used.

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

The ones that are long enough to reach the outlets, and proper ampacity. That implys the ones that are already on the stuff.

glen999
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

i would like to know what kind of parameters to look for when i choose a powercord.
I would like to pick a few powercords that meet the criteria and then listen.

won't even pay a dime if it doesn't change my hi-fi performance.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

There's not really a simple answer. On paper, formulas look great and add up, but, in real world applications, nothing is ideal or perfect. In audio, minute differences end up making the unlikeliest of things into tone controls. Different power cords have different designs and sonic signatures. The gear one partners a power cord with may not always reveal the changes one might hear with a different setup. Things will also depend on what kind of components you're pairing the cords with... sometimes amplifiers may show the most dramatic improvement. Some people find that a cord that works well on amplifiers doesn't work so well on a transport. Some of the changes you might hear (or not hear) depend on the power supplies of the gear, or the shielding or lack of shielding on the stock cord.

On the most basic level, for something like an amplifier, I'd look for a cord with a minimum of 14 gauge, that's well shielded. There are generic cords made by Quail and Volex that cost less than 20 dollars that many budding audiophiles seem to be implementing with success. Some prefer ones without ferrite chokes, others like them. I haven't heard either of these, so I can't comment. I have tried cords at a similar price point and build in the past. There was an audible improvement over the stock cords my gear had. Usually more tuneful bass and smoother mids and treble over the stock cord could be heard, but in absolute terms, things in the vocal range tended to sound grainy and the overall sound a bit congested when compared to much more expensive aftermarket cords.

I've tried power cords that made music bright and unlistenable. I've heard ones that offered ball-crushing bass and gave music a tube-like, lush midrange. Some had a great sense of rhythm, but too small a soundstage.

Many years ago, after auditioning lots of cords, I ended up settling for a fairly expensive cord ($600 range) for each component in my system. It didn't perform as impressively in some areas that other cords excelled in, but, offered the most balanced improvement in all areas. I was happy for many years, but the innovations developed by PS Audio in the power delivery department in recent years were not something I could ignore. I was mightily impressed by their xStream Statement v3 cords and ended up replacing all the cords on my major components (turntable excepted.) I'd like to check out the products by Shunyata and Nordost, but, presently I'm quite happy. You can read a bit about the xStream Statements here:

http://www.psaudio.com/products/xstream_power_statement_overview.asp

PS Audio makes several cords at different price points:

http://www.psaudio.com/cables.asp

Below, are some threads at another forum that might be of interest. Head-Fi member, markl, did an exhaustive survey of a number of cords and what he heard:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141423

He didn't like one of the lower end PS Audio cords at all.

The following one has a great simple reply by rickcr42:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=169959

Only you'll be able to decide how much is too much to spend on a power cord for a component. My audio buddies thought it was sheer madness putting a power cord that cost half as much as the component into the chain until they heard music through the combo. Regardless of what anyone says, let your own ears and wallet decide.

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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

IMPOSSIBLE. Then when inside the piece of equipment gets fed to the smallest of piece of wire, that is big enough for teh required amapacity of teh unit, how did a different piece of wire do anything. a 16Ga cord is good for 13A the only Amps I see with 14G cord are ones that big watts, not some dinky 100pc amp. 16 ga is more than adequete, even 18Ga for such small devices. I have 14G cords on two of my Hafler/AVA they are about 1200W RMS in mono, 1600RMS for a short term, that's beyond eh Ampacity of 16G cord, and you would start getting a voltage crop. How do you justify an oversized cord on an underpowwered amp. You could wire most of a house for teh prices on soem of this nonsense. Ampacity decides gauge, not mystical boogity boogity hi-fi nonsense. Is there also a soudn in a wall outlet? Leviton for $1 versus an"audio grade" from some snake oil compnay for over $300.? Guess what, NEMA has no such grade for a wiring device audio grade doesn't exist in wiring dvices that go in a wall. How do you explain teh printing on one of these magical brands of nonsense?

JoeE SP9
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Jeff, have you tried replacing your outlets with hospital grade or those expensive Watt Gate's? When I ran 3 dedicated lines from 3 new breakers for my system I used hospital grade outlets. I can't say if the hospital grade outlets made a difference but they sure do require more force to insert and remove plugs.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Which Van Alstine modified Haflers do you have? I have 2 DH200's that have been extensively modified.

Jeff Wong
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Joe - When my new service was put in, there was a noticeable drop in the noise floor. I have a dedicated line for my system and installed a PS Audio Power Port which then feeds a Power Director 4.7 - the addition of the outlet did actually improve the sound of my system as compared to the sound of the system with the Leviton outlet I had in there before; with the Power Port, the noise floor was lower, the blacks were blacker, and there was a reduction in grain to the mids and treble. I have not tried the WattGates or any cryogenically treated outlets.

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I will try to be polite (possibly a difficult task based on some of the posts I just read) regarding this issue. I have replaced all the circuits on which my system is running, and for the minimal cost, the difference was well worth it.

People will often make sophomoric comments about how does 6' or even 60' of better wire make up for the junk that ran the first ten miles? In regard to this I read an interesting letter from an engineer from an electric power plant who was raving about the good sound from his system that he got with the new PCs he bought by accident. There was a mix up at the dealer and he shipped the wrong item or something like that and rather than send them back he tried them out to see if they made a difference.

This might be an odd place to post this, but I started reading Stereophile back in the mid 80's, when Sam was still interesting, and subscribed for a long time. The reason I quit was the whole issue of PCs making a difference. I bought into the IC and Speaker cables, but when they started with PCs that was just too much for me. A number of years later JA came to my house and threatened my puppy with great bodily harm if I did not take out a subscription. Being the dog lover I am, I took out a subscription. Ten years later, to my horror, and the horror of my puppy, they were still talking about PCs. I was going to show them!!!

I marched right down to the local HiFi and salad dressing emporium and bought a Transparent Powerlink+. It was the cheapest PC they had, except for the Apple, so I took it home and slapped it into the system. I knew it was not going to make a @#$%& bit of difference. When I sat down to listen, it had made a difference. That irritated me as much as Stereophile blathering on about them all those years ago.
"HOW WAS THAT POSSIBLE?" I demanded of my puppy. She ignored me.
Since then I have replaced all my PCs with cables costing a lot more than Powerlink+, all my outlets with PS Audio, and all of my gear is on seperate circuits, two for the amp, and one for the rest of the system. None of this stuff should make any differnce, but it does. Call it mumbo jumbo, snake oil, or voodoo, the issue remains, better PCs, outlets, and wire makes a noticable improvement, not just a difference.

Monty
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I'm actually surprised that there isn't more gear offered that runs off of DC.

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

2 VanAlstine OmegaStar EX Hafler Pro 500's running in mono 1200W RMS each probably more like 1600 RMS for a short while 2 DH500 VanAlstines OmegaStar EX running in mono about 900W each or so...Mono via 2 VanAlstine ULTRA HYDRID phase inverters (latest inverter versions, GREAT GREAT GREAT SOUND) 4 VanSlatines driving 2 recenlty acquired Legacy WHISPERS!! Driven by an Ultra Hybrid EX Van alstine pre amp, latest model just out, what GREAT STUFF. and various stuff all about teh VanAlstines. Once you go VanAlstien all else sucks, and is grossly over priced. Frank and his crew is an audio wizards. Legacy speakers are it!!!

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Green ink on your CD's, still freezing them? What color ink for SACD? How do you hear teh soudn of an AC wall device? The only reason for separate outlets is current capacity, NEC RULES state 3 hours continuous use at 80% rated ckt, thus I use separate for running 4 high current draw amps along with many many other things around them. There is no magic wires, or secret filtering wire twists. Basic electrical wiring. Why does magic exist in audio electrical stuff, but not in say the operation of a tv or toaster? Checkout teh wiring of www.starlandballroom.com 32,000 watts of CROWN amps.....no magic basic electrical design

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Impossible, it's merely self hypnosis. Teh ampacity of teh lien cord first priority, suitable for use determines insulation types, enviorment used in also determines insulation classification. Anything else "white papers" BS produced by sellers of magic wires, is utter nonsense. PS has a 6 gauge cord terminated with 15 cord caps!!! For a DVD, CD, amplifier!!! 6 guage cord, and of course it makes it all sound better, my Cd players is rated 10watts line use..yeah, it needs a 6 guage cord...what people fall for this NONSENSE? The main question is, WHY does teh line cord on teh device negate teh dozens of feet from wall device to service panel? Why not audiophile grade ckt breakers, hmmmm, cus' no company wants to be sued, when a nitwit opens his ckt panel and puts in cryo gold plated breakers that cost $600 (audio grade of course) and teh guy kills himself..Where are teh audio grade breakers, compaines offer aduio grade cord caps? hmmmm, please explain

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Dud, you delude yourself. It makes you look foolish when you contradict the expereince of someone else. You were not there, and how can someone opposed to the possibility of something occuring expereince self hypnosis. There is more utter nonsense in your post than ever came out of any white paper.

Your post strikes me as one having been written by someone who has never even listened to the item they are condemning, and who knows nothing about the topic being discussed.

I don't know anything about (see I admit it when it's true) PS Audio power cords. I've seen them, but have never used one.

Perhaps the thing that makes people fall for this is the fact that they work time after time after time after time after time!

You should be glad your hearing is not up to noticing the difference. Think of the money you can save by buying poor quality gear and then self hypnotising yourself into thinking it sounds good. You have every right to be thankful.

Audiophile breakers, and breaker boxes are readily available to anyone who wants to buy them. For only about $4000 you could get one yourself, with gold plated busses and all the good stuff. You need to get out more, and find out about the other things about which you know nothing, but so articulately condemn!!!

Jeff Wong
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I would suggest that would be inarticulately condemn, but, that's probably nitpicking.

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I should know better since I consider sarcasm to be the lowest form of humor! Sorry Jeff!

Jeff Wong
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

My apologies... my sarcasm meter must've been off when I replied; not being familiar with your sensibilities, I took things too literally.

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Trying to familiarize yourself with my sensibilities (such as they are) would not be a good use of your time. I'm as crazy as a loon. Have you ever met a loon? Me either!

Monty
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I thought it was funny. In fact, I am enormously impressed at the level of restraint this forum exhibits in comparison to most others.

I know I have to sit on my hands from time to time. I'm almost always glad I did.

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

NEMA has no such classification. Audiophile grade...for nothing honey. If you do not know what NEMA is, thus your use of items rated "Audio Grade" etc. My ears are pretty good, it's why I listen to the stuff I have. I'm sure Mapino DOTS and wood blocks work wonders for ya. I stick to reality based items. Properly designed electronics and speaker systems. Live music is the reference. Most live venuses I attend have no magic dots or audio grade wires, heavy duty, Nuetrik, heavy duty cables meant to survive LIVE shows, that means being walked on, yanked on, plugged and unplugged hundreds of times over it's lifetime, and they continue to work. Loaded and unloaed in shipping cases back and forth, teh mapingo dots would get lost, and those fancy wires with magic twists and turns would merely not survive....the music is in the insturments, and electronics, not a cyro treated wall device. Does green ink still make CD's play better?

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Please forgive my profound ignorance, but what are you talking about???

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

Read the thread...if you do not know what NEMA is...that is teh problem. Audio Grade wall outlets? Yeah, riiiight

nrchy
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!


Quote:
Read the thread...

The problem is, your post is incoherant! What are you babbling about?

What scientific studies have you conducted that disprove the virtues of audio grade outlets? It's easy to sit up there on your hill and put down things you don't know about, and have the Beatles sing about you, but do you have anything to offer the discussion???

CECE
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

If i can't DISPROVE it, please enlighten me as to what has been proven as to an "audio grade" wall outlet, versus a non audio grade, and what did you hear that said, oh yeah, that's an audio grade wall outlet...There is no such thing, But if i don't use an audio grade line cord, won't that stop the audio grade outlet improements from happening? Why not an audio grade cover to mate up with teh audio grade wiring device, I'm sure you can hear the differences, your system is "highly revealing" blah blah blah, and mine ain't, so it's a limited system. Why would an audio grade outlet improve aanything if fed by a standard non audio grade ckt breaker? soemwhere along teh line those improved electrons are gonn hang up at teh non audio supply, won't it? Hang any MAPINGO discs lately? Freeze any discs lately?

Colnmary
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Re: Converted from negative to Positive!

I shall build my own Power generating plant from spare parts, an old washing machine and microwave and shall smelt some copper and make 7n grade copper cables to supply power outlets in my listening room. I am sure I shall hear a difference.

eagle
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Re: Power Cord Experiment


Quote:
Must be because it's cold in Canada.

In any case, the step-down transformer at the utility pole isn't terribly far from your home.

He still has a point, even if you consider only the wire from your breaker to the outlet. The chances are that you have a 14 (maybe 12) gauge solid core wire from your breaker to the outlet. It would seem to me that anything better than that is a waste of money.

Maybe a better would benifit if you have a some kind of power massaging box between the outlet and the power cord.

mapper94
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Was a skeptic

At one time I too was very skeptical of many audiophile claims but no more. If you HEAR a difference there IS a difference:

1. All CD players are perfect hence sound the same: This is not true listen to any mid-fi unit versus a hi-fi (does not auto mean high cost)unit. When I changed my entry level Denon with an Arcam - it was night and day!

2. All amplifiers sound the same: Not true, when I changed my Rotel RB1080 (highly rated unit) for a Moon W5 there was an amazing difference. The bass is better controlled, nuances/detail jumped out, the soundstage got deeper and wider, the top end became smoother, etc.

3. Cables make no difference: False, listen to a lamp cord used as speaker wire versus any audiophile speaker cable.

4. Speakers are the most important component in a system: Wrong the source is king, whatever the source can't produce nothing downstream can fix it. Yes like a good CD player a good DVD player will also make a big difference. Garbage in garbage out.

5. Power cords don't matter: Wrong, a well shielded cord with a hospital grade plug and a good connector can be like night and day compared to the $2 cords included with even expensive gear. Don't bother poking fun on others or demand rational explanations if you hear a difference there is one! If you hear no difference then fair enough, don't buy it.

The botton line is you can spend huge sums of money and be left with very little or nothing. As is the case with all else there is snake oil out there. BUYER BEWARE.

cwoll
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Re: Was a skeptic

1. All CD players are perfect hence sound the same: This is not true listen to any mid-fi unit versus a hi-fi (does not auto mean high cost)unit. When I changed my entry level Denon with an Arcam - it was night and day!

4. Speakers are the most important component in a system: Wrong the source is king, whatever the source can't produce nothing downstream can fix it. Yes like a good CD player a good DVD player will also make a big difference. Garbage in garbage out.

I would argue with both of these points. The difference between a $1000 and a $2000 cd player is nothing compared to the difference between speakers in the same ranges.

Source is the second most important part of your system, especially in the digital world

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