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modenar1
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power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

i have an old Onkyo AV controller Amp. and i wanted to changed the power cord on it. but my amp comes with power cord attachment straight to the circuit board. is there anyway i can change the power cord on this reciever. please give me your thoughts. here are a few pictures to show the connection of my pwoer cord to circuit board.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Yeah, why bother? Is the one in use now damaged? Frayed? That's a Molex connector(or some clone thereof), it works fine, that's why they used it.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Hi Modenar1,

One could pigtail some leads and then add an IEC connector. Use good solder, not the junk 60/40 stuff.
Be sure, after soldering, to insulated the connections, clear silicone is good, better than taping imo. Just make sure you don't/can't get shocked.

One could then roll power cords.

Jeff Wong
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Personally, I'd see if there was space on the back panel to mount an IEC jack. If so, I would solder insulated wires from those pins (and a ground wire if possible as well) to an IEC jack which would allow you to use just about any aftermarket power cord of your choice. Again, as 301 mentioned, only attempt this if you know what you're doing, or have a buddy or technician who knows and can do it for you.

Did DUP go into one of his NEMA rants?

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

So by adding yet another connection between this pin set, and then adding teh IEC set on teh back panel, THIS will allow something to sound better? I see, the more soler joints and mechanical connectors teh better it sounds. I guess I must be missing something here, please explain how this electrical characteristic functions, more connections, better sound? And of course the jumper you put between this board and the IEC conector on teh back panel is what kind of wire? then you add a magic AC line cord from teh back panel to teh wall and NOW you have improved the ability of this amplifier? There is of course logic to this right? This is a non audio grade Molex connector, which is why you want to change it?

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Yes Jeff, if one could mount it on the back that would be much preferred. If one doesn't care too much about looks, one can use a small drill bit and drill out the outline of the receptacle.

Be careful of vibration, always makes me a little jumpy with CD players.


Quote:
Personally, I'd see if there was space on the back panel to mount an IEC jack. If so, I would solder insulated wires from those pins (and a ground wire if possible as well) to an IEC jack which would allow you to use just about any aftermarket power cord of your choice. Again, as 301 mentioned, only attempt this if you know what you're doing, or have a buddy or technician who knows and can do it for you.

Did DUP go into one of his NEMA rants?

Monty
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Those little Dremel tools work great for stuff like this.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

What kind of AC line cord is on the drill? Ironic you can use a tool with a standard AC line cord to modify the line cord on audio, cus the line cord on audio has sound, yet the line cord on the drill don't matter? Hmmmm, more medication, I cannot get a grasp on this idea!!!!!

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Maybe all the distortion of your system blocks any improvements in sound?


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What kind of AC line cord is on the drill? Ironic you can use a tool with a standard AC line cord to modify the line cord on audio, cus the line cord on audio has sound, yet the line cord on the drill don't matter? Hmmmm, more medication, I cannot get a grasp on this idea!!!!!

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Always a reason why voodoooo don't work. Yup, must be the distortion, i don't hear no stinkin' distortion. But then that's cus' my ears are bad right? My ears are bad cus i play it too loud right. i play it too loud cus' I can't hear teh subtleys right. I don't listen to teh "right" music. I am not a trained listener....always a reason for WHY wires don't make a difference here. funny funny funny. How much should i spend on a wire, so it makes a audible IMPOVEMENT?

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

You are the one who ignores the textbooks suggested. So who are you trying to kid?

It was suggested that we ignore you and your posts. So why don't you reciprocate and ignore our posts/strings if you don't like them?

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Books that are related to fields not audio make no sense. It's like my sink is clogged, let me read about how to replace the window regulator in the Audi. When the subject of WIRE comes up, all these quotes and places to go, about RF, high speed data etc. Audio, is not high speed data, RF or anything else wire nudnicks wanna relate to an audio signal.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Wrong. My suggestions were not related to digital, RF etc.

Then why do you use appliances, computers etc. as examples (that power cords don't make a difference) when they have nothing to do with audio?


Quote:
Books that are related to fields not audio make no sense. It's like my sink is clogged, let me read about how to replace the window regulator in the Audi. When the subject of WIRE comes up, all these quotes and places to go, about RF, high speed data etc. Audio, is not high speed data, RF or anything else wire nudnicks wanna relate to an audio signal.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Cus AC electrons from the wall don't know where they are going, into a toaster, coffee maker or tv or audio amp. So why should you change the line cord on just the amp? Why not the toaster, shavers, hair driers, tv or coffee maker? Electrons go where ever they find a path, something like wire scammers, they find a path to your wallet. Electrons don't know if they finally wind up moving a speaker cone or turning bread toasty brown. Unless of course you had the utility wire you onto the audio grid, rather than the all use grid. Audio grade electric service, for those who just know they can hear the difference. The same question asked so many times, why not audio grade ckt breakers, service panels, whatever teh ad dept at Scammer Audio products can put forth, someone will hear the improvements.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

"Cus AC electrons from the wall don't know where they are going, into a toaster, coffee maker or tv or audio amp. So why should you change the line cord on just the amp? Why not the toaster, shavers, hair driers, tv or coffee maker? Electrons go where ever they find a path, something like wire scammers, they find a path to your wallet."

>>Wrong. Showing your ignorance as usual. You really don't have any idea how electricity works, so why not just shut your mouth?

"Electrons don't know if they finally wind up moving a speaker cone or turning bread toasty brown. Unless of course you had the utility wire you onto the audio grid, rather than the all use grid."

>>Oh really. Want to try again?

For a second time, why do you reply to these posts when Stephen suggests you simply ignore us.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Electricity doesn't "work"...cus then it becomes energy expended over time. Then it's watthours. Them watt hours know not what "work" they are doing. Energy is supplied, energy is utilized, energy does not know of what it does, it merely transforms from one state to another, never going or coming, you can't get rid of energy. Wrong again, proving your ignorance. E=MC2, so there. Hang that on your tonearm and like it.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Are you some kind of fruitcake?

"Work" in context means how it "passes" through a wire. Just how is electricity produced at one point, the power plant, and "reach" the consumer's appliance. As usual, you haven't a clue.

"energy does not know of what it does," "Them watt hours know not what "work" they are doing."

>>Oh really? So there are no laws governing energy "through" a wire, just your E=mc2? How does gravity affect energy, such as in a black hole? There are definite laws. Do you have a clue what you are talking about?

"never going or coming, you can't get rid of energy"

Who said anything about getting rid of energy? Might want to try learning to read. Besides, energy does "travel" as any simple experiment will demonstrate. Energy cannot travel any faster than light, which is not instantaneous.

Energy and light takes time to travel through space. I.e. light and heat energy from the sun takes about 8 minutes to reach the earth, and that is in a near perfect vacuum.

Before sticking your foot into your mouth trying to push your agenda, maybe you should do some studying again.

Again I ask, if you don't like what is posted, or a string, why not just ignore it? Isn't that what Stephen suggested? I see you avoided the question again, as usual.


Quote:
Electricity doesn't "work"...cus then it becomes energy expended over time. Then it's watthours. Them watt hours know not what "work" they are doing. Energy is supplied, energy is utilized, energy does not know of what it does, it merely transforms from one state to another, never going or coming, you can't get rid of energy. Wrong again, proving your ignorance. E=MC2, so there. Hang that on your tonearm and like it.

smejias
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp


Quote:
So why should you change the line cord on just the amp? Why not the toaster, shavers, hair driers, tv or coffee maker?

One audio engineer might answer this by saying simply: "Because an amp is not a toaster."

The exact words were:
"When you listen to an amp," Powell continues, "you're listening to its power supply

Monty
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

If I used my toaster to amplify my music, I'd worry about what my toaster sounds like. You can't use a toaster as an amplifier, but you can use some amplifiers as toasters!

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU, HONEY. I'VE GOT THE TOASTER GOING!"

showflash
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Stephen,

According to Garth Powell's statement power conditioning would be beneficial correct? I ask because I am a systems/network administrator and we have backup power supplies on all of servers that I have ever managed. Some of the power supplies I have managed have conditioners on them, such as the big APC, which can supply power to several refrigerators for a day or two. My impression of these statements is that a true sine wave going into the equipment can benefit the sound coming out and additionally will protect the gear in case there are brown outs, black outs, surges, spikes, etc.

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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp


Quote:
According to Garth Powell's statement power conditioning would be beneficial correct?

Yes, Garth Powell believes power conditioning to be beneficial in hi-fi applications.

Elk
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Showflash, this is correct in all respects.

The only thing I question is whether there are any UPC's that output anything approaching a pure sine wave. Those that I have seen output a sinewave with a lot of distortion riding on it. This is perfectly fine for the job for which they are intended however.

(Monty, great toaster quip!)

Jim Tavegia
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

I also found a lower noise floor in my old desk top HP computer recording rig when I used an MIT power cord. It dropped my noise floor 10 db.

It was my understanding that no one made upgraded internal power supplies for Hp computers. Mine is an old 566mhz Pavillion 6635 with Windows 98 2ed with 190 megs of ram and an 80 gig HD. I do not go on-line with it any more just MS Word and music applications.

showflash
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

It really depends on the amount of power you want to supply. Look at APC Audio products:
http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=15

If you have an entire movie studio I would go with an APC Symmetra but they are not cheap...they start at $2,500.

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=189

When I worked in Silicon Valley we had two APC Silcons in the main wire room. We could power five bioinformatics refrigerators, robots and servers for half-a-day!
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=158

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Since i use Furman stuff to condition the line, i guess I can keep those regular AC line cords then, better money spent on Furman than AC line cord voodoooooo. The Furmans all have just line cords of proper guage.....no vooodooo, no magic. i guess that audio engineer says, I don't need no magic wires, just some basic elecrical design and it works. There is no sound in an AC line cord. Yesm, the amp is just one big modulated power supply, why don't you change the AC cords for anything with a power supply, everything should function better. Wires are the fruitloop fringe of audio, besides cable elevators and cellophane wrapped wires. How come Furman doesn't use magic wires in the stuff, since you quoted him as a source of AC line issues, he solved them not with magic wires, but with filtering, conditioning, basic AC stuff. Power factor correction, in teh 3 units i use. No magic, basic AC power design.What kind of power cord in on a $100K TT, that makes such incredible things happen, it better be beyond magic for $100K. Don't ya think? What Line cord in on an Emm Labs super duper SACD player, looks like some generic piece of wire. There is no sound in a line cord, only sound is teh cash register, taking your money, and the sound of the nice Porsche driven by those wire gurus.....who sold you nonsense. Will hey even give you a ride in teh car you bought for teh wire magicians.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Here is one of the worlds best line conditioners. Jim Weil's (at for 37 years) conditioners are used in the Reference Listening Suite at CBS Studio Center. Here are excerpts from a few reviews explaining what Jim does.

http://soundapplication.com/html/review2.html

"He only uses 5 ppm Caddock Ultra Precision resistors, 6 Nines 12-gauge copper wire, 8-gauge OFE 4 Nines NASA grade bus bars and cryogenically treated high conductivity outlets."

From http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/sound_application.htm

"An ultra high speed magnetic circuit breaker (SA has been using this type since 1992), hand tensioned, hand soldered, exotic film and foil capacitors specifically designed for the application as high frequency AC RF filter caps where these custom capacitors are of the highest quality available today."

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/soundapplication_xe12s.htm

"The bus bars used in the XE-12S are solid OFE copper that's 99.99% pure -- the same copper that NASA uses. Weil polishes each bar on a lathe and with three different compounds as such surfaces are reported to sound better."

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0600/cfx.htm

http://www.soundapplication.com/SoundApplication.pdf

"The power distribution wires are imported, according to Weil, from South Africa,

Elk
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

I've pointed out in the past that many recording, mixing and mastering studios use high end audio amps and speakers; high end cables, interconnects and power cords; high end power conditioning, etc. DUP won't have any part of it.

This is amusing to me as the guy that first showed me the benefit of treating CD's retired a couple of years ago as one of the top recording engineers from Sony's LA studios. He could easily hear the difference between treated and untreated even on CDs he had never heard before. He taught me what to listen for, I can now easily tell if a CD is treated.

It's not worth confusing him with facts; the poor guy also thinks that the cheap electric motor pushing an Audi's windshield wiper around is the same motor used in high end turntables.

His is a small world. And one where everything sounds the same.

showflash
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

When scientists develop equations for science and engineering they use theorems for the definition of values approaching either positive or negative infinity, and zero as the basis for many of their proofs.

When engineers design audio components they often use those same theorems but now they use them knowing that they have empirical evidence. They are no longer concerned with the proofs they have mastered the maths. These engineers design around the perfect system, which in reality does not exist even on paper or in the lab but operate within a particular scope or environment. The system built will not operate perfectly when produced even in the lab but it operate with a standard deviation of so many percent either way and everyone sees those system measurements as a variance of +-1%, +-5% or even +-10% depending on the components used. The higher the grade of component used will result in lower system tolerances, but no-one can guarantee that once the system leaves the lab as a product it will be given the opportunity to perform in that realm where it was designed. The labs have hardware that produce perfect sine waves for circuits design so as to give engineers the opportunity to develop the circuits from a specification that the system is to operate within.

When the systems leave the labs they are torn down to be recast as products to be manufactured.

In manufacturing the variance for production again adds an additional +-5 percent of error. So the losses from the design specd product have accrued but the variance remains an acceptable amount and so the product is mass produced and sold to the public. The cheaper the component the greater the expectation is that over time the component will have a wide variance of operation(poorer performance over time) and the higher the grade the component the more it is expected to operate in a narrow range of performance(higher range of performance). The lower specification for operational ranges for these variances cannot be guaranteed however because the environment may be nothing like the lab where it was initially conceived, designed and constructed so many components take on ranges of variance that are greater than those published. How many times have you heard that "it doesn't measure as specd!"

By the time you get the product home if you take the opportunity to lessen the greatest variances, which are additive for all the separate components then you ought to. Not doing so means that you have a series of products that do not even come close to meeting spec. This is a system spec I am speaking of and it is additive. Throw in the dirty electricity, the over resistive or inductive wire with corrosive ends, scratched or dirty CD or DVD...and now you see why they build DVD/CD players to read +- so many seconds ahead without skipping...so they have time to guess values within a range or INERPOLATE...i.e add error rather than stop working.

A true sine wave would help many components reach and maintain their specification for a greater length of time after having been put into use and power conditioning which prevents components from having to deal with brown outs and power sags and spikes is just common sense. Most audio electronics are not designed for the battlefield.

I make an assumption that most of us either have or dream of having expensive audio gear and it naturally follows that they would do whatever it takes to get a system to operate within spec and to operate for as long as possible in that region. To do otherwise would mean that you are NOT an audio or sterophile. Audiophile or stereophile...an attraction to the things that define the art of sound and reproduction and unsatisfied with less than perfection.

Where is your art? What are you practicing? Are you an audiophile or sterophile or do you just like it here because there are others who are and in some innate way you see yourself as fitting in when in fact you are not practicing the religion we do?

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

CBS employed Imus no longer in the morning. CBS is hardly any point of reference in anything. Stern left too, so did Mel K. CBS Records is nothing, it's part of sony music, which was saved from extinction by BMG. Any other references that are worthy of any praises?

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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

The COLOR of teh wire has an effect on the sound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yup, science in action. and some pair of very special ears can hear it!!!!!!!! the color of teh floor must also effect teh wires if teh wires are laying on the floor? Ya know what effects the sounds, more WATTS, BETTER BIGGER speakers. What a simple solution to such a very confused listening crowd. I think also you may find that the soild under the house 33.3 feet down has a mathematical effect on the spinning of the record on certain TT's. BUT only certain ones, with labels on it that are a certain color hue of white..

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Everything I use has FLAWLESS solder joints, from teh cheapest to teh most expensive, FLAWLESS SOLDER JOINTS....whoopie, a 21st century breakthrough.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Those treated CD's are so good, Philips/Sony developed DSD/SACD to make digital CD BETTER BETTER MO BETTER. DSD/SACD, no treatmetns needed, just better format, science, recording. I thought Green ink and Furutech made all things perfect? Now you have to Treat teh CD too? Nah, just listen to DSD/SACD. Why use exotic outlets and cords, then teh wire inside the mains AC transfomer is like wire, without hype. doesn't teh color of teh amps or pre amps AC transformer effect the sound? It must if the wire outside color can. Nonsense, pure and simple. More watts, bigger speakers, and forget about wire insulation, wall outlets etc. Get back to basics, and REALITY

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

THE COLOR of HEAT SHRINK is specially chosen for it's SOUND THE COLOR!!!!! If CBS engineers think that, YES, IDIOTS is too kind a word

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Now you want to back up your silly comments with ANY proof?

Do you think anyone is going to believe you when you continually demonstrate your total lack of understanding as demonstrated in this string? How does insulation affect the sound?

Here is a link from a phd chemist I was told about some years ago.
http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_chemistview.php

Elk
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

Showflash,

While you wrote your email indicating it was a reply to me this doesn't appear to be the case - or if it is I am not seeing the connection. Is there something you would like me to address?

If I understand your points correctly I am in agreement with you.

Elk
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Actually DUP, treated SACD's sound better than untreated SACD's. Weird but true.

My belief is that treated optical discs sound better because the treatment allows the pick-up laser to do a better job thereby decreasing the need to invoke the transport's error correction mechanisms.

No voodoo here, just basic applied science.

There is no one here that argues that you personally can hear the difference. You tell us you cannot. We all accept that this is true. Thus you need not feel threatened.

I do envy your abilty to be able to tell the difference between the colors of wires however.

CECE
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

That sure is some facny writings all bout's different plastics, dielectric propertys, very impressive. All BS as far as audio, but damn impressive. If you can hear green over red or whatever....you gotta be one incredible superhero!!!!! If you really hear the effects of insulations on YOUR audio system, you have the most amazing setup, ears, and anything else in audio.....those "scientific" writings sure do prove the point, whatever the point is, it proved it!!! Weapons of mass delusions. I must have poor setup, cus' I can't hear wire insulation, let alone different colors. I do not hear teh storage and release of energy in my wires, my ears ain't fast enough,

CECE
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Treated sound better, what is it that is being "fixed" and of course this tracking optical improvment is measurable, and easily audible, not just audible by "trained" listeners, or someone who doesn't know you treated your SACD. What happened to the inks, green for cd, what color for SACD? What color for SACD hybrid, it does use 2 different wavelengths 2 layers.

showflash
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Elk: I'll be more careful in the future with where I select to reply. I was replying "in general." I was not careful as to where I selected to reply. I'm a newbie to the discussion forums and I am on three of them at once soaking up the energy. ;-)

My thing about all of the negativity that I see here once in a while is that people should not be knocking the smallest insignificant tweek. One tweek may not be audible, but five, ten or twenty may be, and the reasons while not supported within the context of the discussion does not mean that there was no significant reason for the decision made in their use. And you never know what it is that sets one tweek apart from another until you try them all out. That is what most of us are here for....you should have an open mind and try them all or at least be willing to listen to others discuss them. That is what sets a stereophile apart from some run of the mill guy/gal with an investment in playback recording equipment.

Loosen up, let your belief system take a ride and see where it takes you. I know this doesn't do any good...but I'm just having fun hanging out here that's all and its got to be fun. It looks like some of us are having fun and others are not. Some people cannot be spoken to rationally no matter how sincere you are with them.

Support for a concept taken out of context may seem sacrilegious to people looking for scientific facts within every sentence...you need to read the entire article and walk in someones shoes in order to know why they design as they do. Including why one person uses a certain color wire. It is just not worth my time to explain it to some where their belief system has them pinned down too.

I'll listen to anyone for some time before I turn them off. I may even try the tweek in private. But I won't bash them for their belief system.

I remember when jitter came out and there was a fuss made about it not being anything to worry about. It is there...and how significant it is to you depends on what end of the spectrum you are on as an audiophile or stereophile. But if you are NEITHER then many things don't bother you.

CECE
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Tweaking oneself should always be done in private.....

showflash
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Hey Dup, ever see the Parts Express board? Just wondered, I think you would be happier being there for more of your day. It is all about belief systems.

I hope that I'm not out of line here...I'm here to talk about sound and accurate playback not necessarily personal belief systems although they play an important part in what we do here for at least 50% of the material.

I think the feeling that people have is that you are vilifying them.

Stereophile is a pretty well balanced organization, with decades to back up what they hear and measure. The followers are for the most part equally balanced or they would not be here.

Now how you can back up what you hear when you absolutely never measure is beyond me but if you measure and KNOW what and where to look after having been a participant in many measurements and you put forth an effort to measure when the opportunity exists then that is a whole 'nother story.

If you look through the materials below you will see that some people/publishers claim all sorts of things and never take one measurement...so how they say what they say is beyond me. Some go out of their way to say that they are the real dope, literally even more so than Stereophile yet never take a multimeter out of their pocket ONCE.

If you are looking to tweek cables all day without a whit of evidence that it does anyone any good then stick to the top of the list. Naturally there is an overlap that I cannot account for and I left out at least four or five magazines and forums(Audiofederation.com, CineNow.com, ConsumerReports.org, Head-Fi.org, HiFiChoice, HtGuide.com, Sound & Vision) but you get the idea.

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tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

"That sure is some facny writings all bout's different plastics, dielectric propertys, very impressive. All BS as far as audio, but damn impressive."

>>And who supports you? What facts do you have to back up your beliefs, besides your "BS"?

>>Snowflash is right, you are pinned down, cause once you admit to the facts, you are without a paddle.

"those "scientific" writings sure do prove the point, whatever the point is, it proved it!!! Weapons of mass delusions."

>>Based on what? Your say so? So now you admit you know more than the scientific community. Another brilliant belief which should give us all comfort.

>>The rest of your post isn't worth responding to. The fact that you already admitted to listening to well over 100db levels for periods of time clearly indicates some level of deafness. That is a medical fact. Or are you going to accuse the medical research community of quackery.

I wonder who are your sources who supplied you with your beliefs?

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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

100dB is what live music starts at. If i want to listen to background music I wouldn't have my setup. My "beliefs" are from actual use. It all started on a small farm...years ago. Adopted by Ma and Pa Kent.....so now you know why MY hearing IS better. I am not tone deaf, i can HEAR, the differences between a Fender and a Gibson, the Gretsch is in the middle of bright and full Gibsons even subtle tone in a Komet versus a Marshall amp. I have yet to hear a toneality in some piece of wire frozen, twisted, heated, bi furcated, wrapped in celophane, stood on "elevators" or sold for many more dollars than they are worth. Audio grade outlets have no effect, only effect is on the person selling em, as to which Porsche they can afford, what color will you let the sellers of audio grade wall outlets have this year? WATTS mater, speakers matter, lotsa WATTS lotsa speaker, now the sound is getting better. Most all else, is fantasy. High speed low distortion, high power and speakers to handle it all. No 6 watt driging a 6.5 inch woofer ever sounded like live music, no matter what magic wires connected them.

tandy
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Re: power cabl;e on my onkyo amp

"100dB is what live music starts at."

Really? I know of alot of music that isn't that loud. Even classical is alot of lower level music.

So if you are listening to alot at 100db, your ears are indeed messed up. That is a medical fact.

"My "beliefs" are from actual use."

And the fact that your ears are messed up minimizes what is reality. It only takes approx 8 continuous hours at 85db for permanant damage to occur. Every 5db higher and that time is approximately halved. So at 100db, you are talking 1 hour of continuous listening. 105db, and it is only approx 30 minutes.

Since you are the sole authority, and your ears are obviously messed up by your own admission, enough said.

And who was your source again? I doubt if just you.

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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

MF liked how a 445,000 CD only player sounded like, JA measured it, it was a piece of crapola!!!! AND, it was miswired from teh factory!!! So much for MF, and or any subjective reviews based on ...no facts, but mostly, well it's $45K, and it has 3 boxes, must be sumptin'. It is sumptin', overpriced under performing, 3 boxes for a CD player, come on with teh BS. Someone also like an under performing overpriced Chord amp that was missing something like 500W or so from teh claimed specs...the thing was super pricey, and didn't meet published specs, teh reviewer shuffed it off, oh well what's 500 W, there are enough for any speaker!!! Now that's some review!!! JA found teh fault, measuremetns matter, personal subjective writings are based on nonsense. and mood of teh day. Wonder why they never publish slew rates for these super pricey amps and pre amps, it's an important spec

smejias
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp


Quote:
JA found teh fault, measuremetns matter, personal subjective writings are based on nonsense. and mood of teh day.

Yes, there are some hi-priced components in this world that don't measure very well. Indeed: a terrible crime.

There are lots of people who appreciate how the Zanden combo sounds, regardless of how it measured. Even JA, who ultimately decided not to recommend the Zanden, concluded, "I was surprised by how approachable the Zandens' presentation was at moderate levels, by how seductive this transport and DAC could sound."

Concerning the Chord SPM 14000, JA wrote, "The slight shortfall in its power delivery aside, the Chord SPM 14000 delivers excellent measure performance."

DUP, you've been criticizing these particular components for months and months (the Chord has been a subject of yours for over a year). Why are you so hung up on this? What about all of the components that have been reviewed since, components that measured well and proved wonderful in the listening room? Do these matter at all to you? If not, why?

Why is it that you only praise the disclosure of shortcomings?

Elk
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp


Quote:
Elk: I'll be more careful in the future with where I select to reply. I was replying "in general."

No problem. You are putting a good amount of thought and time into your posts. It's good to have you here.

showflash
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

Thanks.

Even though I just edited a post(five times)...Now I'm getting unhinged.

I keep saying to myself DUP cannot be that out there and be that psychology disturbed with regard to every conceivable area under discussion. But I'm proven wrong every time.

Elk
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp


Quote:
Treated sound better, what is it that is being "fixed"


All playback systems introduce errors in the process of playback. Anything that reduces these errors makes the playback more accurate. Whether or not these changes are audible depends on the type of errors and the amount of error reduction realized. Again, nothing magical going on, basic applied science.


Quote:
and of course this tracking optical improvment is measurable, and easily audible, not just audible by "trained" listeners, or someone who doesn't know you treated your SACD.


These improvements are indeed audible by those who do not know of the treatment. In fact, there are plenty of people that can hear whether or not a disk has been treated even when they have never heard that particular recording before.

Think of it this way: You, DUP, can hear the difference between various electric guitars and probably between various pickups and pickup configurations. Many people can't. You have developed this skill with an interest in the differences and with experience.

Are these differences fake, snake oil and lies because many people can't hear them?

Of course not.

Similarly there are things that others can easily hear but you cannot. These things are not fake merely because you cannot hear them. Of course, you will not hear any differences if you have prejudged and have already denied that any difference exists.

There are people that believe that Audis are lousy cars and that AVA equipment stinks. Are they right when all they are basing their opinion on is irrational bias? They just hate Audis and AVA. Isn't this enough? No? You are not convinced? Yet this is the process you apply to equipment you don't like.

How about the fact that Audis have bad reliability - does this mean they are terrible to drive and handle poorly?

Nope.

Instead they are decent sport sedans with a quality control problem which they will probably soon resolve.

Open both your mind and your ears. You will learn a lot.

You will also hear a lot more cool things.

You might even learn something about cars.

Elk
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp


Quote:
Thanks.

Even though I just edited a post(five times)...Now I'm getting unhinged.

I keep saying to myself DUP cannot be that out there and be that psychology disturbed with regard to every conceivable area under discussion. But I'm proven wrong every time.

I understand.

I periodically try to engage him in a real discussion. I just tried again (see above). It probably won't work but I like to believe that everyone responds well when taken seriously. He probably knows some neat stuff if we could get him to share.

showflash
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Re: power cable on my onkyo amp

I absolutely agree.

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