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bjh
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Joined: Sep 12 2005 - 2:33pm
Ping: Arny Krueger - Where to obtain DBT list of comparisons?

Hello,

After viewing the long DBT threat it is clear to me that you are very confident of the frivolity, if I can put it that way, of much of the hi-end, that many pieces of gear are overpriced for what they do, that many buyers fall back on specious claims having committed to expensive gear and so on. I'm not bothering to quote you, it's all the thread after all, so I just trying keep it simple and talk plainly.

And you just didn't just wake up one day with this conviction. Your beliefs are based upon extensive testing, by yourself and others, using careful DBT methodologies, controls to remove bias and variables that could distort results, and so on.

Surely then there exists a significant body of empirical results as well. Scores of comparisons with commercial products, amplifiers (e.g. this Nad amplifier vs. some Krell), preamplifiers, cables, etc.

I'm no DBT expert but given the goals of the test methodology I would expect that they generally are of the A compared to B variety, after all tests involving a multitude of products all at a time would introduce stress on the poor subjects I imagine.

So I was wondering where I could find the list, the amplifier comparisons, the pre-amplifiers, and especially the cables? It goes almost without saying, given your views, that a great many of such tests have demonstrated many pairs of items have failed to exhibit sonic differences, and it is just these results I am interested in.

You see what I have in mind is isolating some pair of items from the list for a test case, a set of cables of fairly recent production would be perfect. The idea is to come up with a streamlined test that, while not at the same level of sophistication as the techniques you typically utilize, no doubt so that results can easily be represented in a form that demonstrates scientific validity, could pass a peer review and so on, nonetheless contain the essential elements of lack of bias, DUT anonymity, etc.

I suspect given the narrowing of focus to a specific case, again two cables would be perfect, a truly streamlined easily comprehended procedure that shouldn't even require special apparatus, fancy switchers, etc., could be developed that still clearly contains the essential elements for DBT validity.

This should be fun as well as stand as a sample of the validity of DBT that should satisfy most rational audiophiles (and I trust you believe that we audiophiles as a group we are indeed capable of rationality). On the other hand if the items should prove to be distinguishable by Joe Audiophile this might give you cause to examine your elaborate precedures if not to, as I personally believe to be appropriate, discard the methodology, at least as currently practiced, to the dust bin of discredited methodologies; hope that didn't put you off ... I just think retaining a hint of tension should keep interested parties motivated!

Anyway, for you part, if you would be so kind, just pointing me to the list would be providing a great service.

arnyk
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Re: Ping: Arny Krueger - Where to obtain DBT list of comparisons

>After viewing the long DBT threat it is clear to me that you are very confident of the frivolity, if I can put it that way, of much of the hi-end, that many pieces of gear are overpriced for what they do, that many buyers fall back on specious claims having committed to expensive gear and so on.

I wouldn't say most, but I would say lots. I see the high end as being composed products that spare no reasaonable expense in the attainment of good sound; those that don't spare the expense, but fall short; and those items that are basically bad jokes on the purchasers.

>And you just didn't just wake up one day with this conviction.

No I didn't just wake up with this conviction. I built the first ABX Comparator, and did the first ABX test hoping to convince my obviously bigoted and tin-eared friends that the best amps sounded a whole lot better than the rest.

>Surely then there exists a significant body of empirical results as well. Scores of comparisons with commercial products, amplifiers (e.g. this Nad amplifier vs. some Krell), preamplifiers, cables, etc.

Not all in one place!

Probably more DBTs have been done during the development of commercial products than evaluation of them by reviewers or users. Those will probably remain proprietary for a long time.

>You see what I have in mind is isolating some pair of items from the list for a test case, a set of cables of fairly recent production would be perfect.

Of all things! Cable tests are the hardest to properly test, and they have the most universally disappointing (i.e., null) results.

>This should be fun as well as stand as a sample of the validity of DBT that should satisfy most rational audiophiles.

I think that DBTs have been discussed enough that most rational and well-informed audiophiles are already convinced of their validity, and the meaning of their outcomes.
;-)

bjh
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Joined: Sep 12 2005 - 2:33pm
Re: Ping: Arny Krueger - Where to obtain DBT list of comparisons

I think we can continue this best (in fact already have, pls. seem my response to you) in the "Why should DBT interest me" thread.

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