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JoeLR
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Panels on Front Wall?

Would panels on a front wall (behind main speakers) do any good? I know it's a very general question.... I have a pair of Monitor Audio GS60's, due to room setup, I just can't pull them more than 1 foot away from the front wall. I also live in a small, rented condo right now. I can't do anything drastic, but would like to do something... Sometimes the bass seems a bit boomy--I'd assume it's b/c the GS60's are too close to the wall. I don't expect panels to be a panacea, but I'd like to do something to ameliorate this "problem." If I were to do something like this, exactly what type of panels should I get? I'd like to spend less than $200 for both panels, and I have zero skills when it comes to DIY...

SAS Audio
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


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Would panels on a front wall (behind main speakers) do any good? I know it's a very general question.... I have a pair of Monitor Audio GS60's, due to room setup, I just can't pull them more than 1 foot away from the front wall. I also live in a small, rented condo right now. I can't do anything drastic, but would like to do something... Sometimes the bass seems a bit boomy--I'd assume it's b/c the GS60's are too close to the wall. I don't expect panels to be a panacea, but I'd like to do something to ameliorate this "problem." If I were to do something like this, exactly what type of panels should I get? I'd like to spend less than $200 for both panels, and I have zero skills when it comes to DIY...

Hi Joel,

I don't know the extent of the boominess, but putting a couple of full size bed pillows in each corner, even if only two corners behind the speakers, will help to some degree. And look nice. Or Ethan has some new nice looking flower type arrangements for the corners that would help as well.

Hope this helps.
Steve

BillB
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

Weird. Sasaudio refers you to Ethan Winer/RealTraps (that's good) but he has recently ranted with accusations such as, for instance, "... not only does Ethan not understand basic electronics, but evidently has trouble understanding basic acoustics as well."
Hmm - maybe this is sas' way of apologizing.

SAS Audio
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


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Weird. Sasaudio refers you to Ethan Winer/RealTraps (that's good) but he has recently ranted with accusations such as, for instance, "... not only does Ethan not understand basic electronics, but evidently has trouble understanding basic acoustics as well."
Hmm - maybe this is sas' way of apologizing.

One hates the crap science, the attitude, and the lying, not the person Bill B. It is the same for everyone. People say his stuff works pretty good, so why penalize that?

BillB
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

Ah. You say "...the crap science, the attitude, the lying..." and think that's not a personal attack? Try the shoe on the other foot and maybe you'll see.

SAS Audio
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


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Ah. You say "...the crap science, the attitude, the lying..." and think that's not a personal attack? Try the shoe on the other foot and maybe you'll see.

Maybe we should put the shoe on your foot Bill. You claim everyone attacks Ethan, And I clearly pointed out with evidence that Ethan attacks first, including me. So you going to ignore the evidence, or accept it.

You paint Ethan as transparent and honest. I pointed out over and over that that was not true, by the evidence. So you going to ignore the evidence, or accept it.

Did you read page 4, 5 etc of Upgrade Paths? Kinda changes one's perception of what Ethan was up to compared to your story.

ethanwiner
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


Quote:
Would panels on a front wall (behind main speakers) do any good? ... Sometimes the bass seems a bit boomy ... I'd like to spend less than $200 for both panels

Best is a pair of 2x4 bass traps panels straddling the front wall-wall corners. But that'll run about $400 for a pair of MiniTraps from my company, which is beyond your budget. If cost matters most, I suggest you contact my friend Glenn Kuras at GIK Acoustics:

www.gikacoustics.com

Tell him Ethan sent you.

--Ethan

BillB
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

You missed the point. You think the point is that you are "right" in your case versus Ethan - and that therefore anything you say is justifiable because you are "right". (I don't think you are but no biggie.)
My point is that you were being nasty and negative (and disappearing down a rabbit hole of endless self-referential posts, too).
I suggest you could attempt to make your points differently. (Alternatively, when you first doubted the graphs, you could have considered addressing this to Ethan/his website, rather than going public on the forum with accusations.)

dbowker
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

I agree Bill. A public (and personal) feud rarely, if EVER, resulted in greater understanding, clearer communication or practically anything positive. Anyone around here enjoy hearing a couple fight in public? No? Me either. If you think someone is wrong, or even obnoxious, fine, but to assume you know motives, back story or person is highly suspect. And I happen to agree Ethan can sometimes be heavy handed with his version of the "truth."

But to think one could truly change some one's behavior or personality, especially online, is just foolish. It pretty much never works with friends or family members, right?Attacking or ranting isn't going to get you very far, even if you start out more or less correct, because you end up just looking bad too. My 2 cents.

Jan Vigne
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

Have you tried a proper speaker set up? Treating the room won't accomplish much until your listening position and the speakers are properly set up. If you have not tried locating the speakers correctly down to one inch from "perfect" (really, that's what it takes), put "loudspeaker placement" into a search engine and find the "W.A.S.P." set up. It's usually the most promising in a domestic setting. If it doesn't solve your problem, try another technique. Get this right for free before you spend cash trying to solve any other problems.

If the speakers can't sit out into the room at all times, mark the floor and move the speakers when you want to hear the best sound. A good way to mark the location of your speakers is to take a different-than-the-carpet colored thread and loop it through the carpet where at least two corners of the speaker sit. You can always find the thread and the speakers can move back and forth when needed. Tie the thread in place so it doesn't come up when you vacuum.

With a maximum of $200 to spend on treatments, you might want to consider buying some rigid fiberglass panels and wrapping them with some burlap or canvass. Ethan has a spot on his forum that gives dealer locations for specific cities where you can buy the panels. Maybe he'll be kind enough to post a link here. Otherwise, try some fiberglass bales which you can obtain at any home improvement store.

If you need better looks than these DIY options provide, you'll either have to find someone who can build a frame for the rigid fiberglass panels or buy less material in a pre-assembled design. If you want someone to build a frame for not much cash, check your local high school or college theater department. Someone there can build a frame similar to the flats they use as scenery and wrap them for you with lighweight canvass.

JoeLR
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

Thanks for all the replies... Yes, I have experimented w/ various placements. The only reason my budget for panels is so low is b/c I have zero experience w/ treatments. I'm willing to spend much more, just not the first time around. I need to see first hand that an improvement can be had w/ such products. If a cheap product can give me some sort of marginal improvement, then I'll go all out. I'm not afraid of spending money; I just hate wasting it. Thanks especially to Etan, I'll try GIK for my cheap initial foray. If I get any kind of favorable results, I'll be looking for more effective (likely, more expensive) solutions. And no, I'm not saying that expensive necessarily means better--I'm just explaining why my initial budget is so low....

ethanwiner
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


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The only reason my budget for panels is so low is b/c I have zero experience w/ treatments. I'm willing to spend much more, just not the first time around.


Understood, though I wish I knew that before I sent you to my friend Glenn <kidding>.

Seriously, the problem with starting by dipping your toe in the water is a small amount of treatment gives only a small benefit. I wish you'd said how big your room is because that defines how many bass traps etc you need. But generally I try to convince people to not skimp initially. Not to sell more stuff! But it's much better for everyone if you get enough treatment to really do the job. Then you'll be truly wowed and beside yourself with joy at how much better your system sounds. Versus adding two panels and thinking, "Well, I guess it's a little better but I was hoping for more."

I'm just trying to be realistic. I work with acoustic treatment "newbies" all the time, so if you'd like to just do this once and be thrilled with the result, you know where to find me.

--Ethan

Jan Vigne
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


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I wish you'd said how big your room is because that defines how many bass traps etc you need.

What?! You couldn't ask?

You still haven't aksed.

Buddha
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?

JoelR,

If you go to Ethan's website, you'll find a perfect feature - his return policy.

You would risk shipping costs if you decided to give his products an audition.

Also, Ethan is well known on this public forum, and has reviews in print from Stereophile itself.

Seems you'd have some ironclad protection for trying out his stuff and seeing if it really makes a difference for you.

No amount of sniping at Ethan will change how his stuff does or doesn't work - I say, talk to Ethan, give his suggestions a try, and let us live vicariously through your discoveries!

SAS Audio
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Re: Panels on Front Wall?


Quote:
You missed the point. You think the point is that you are "right" in your case versus Ethan - and that therefore anything you say is justifiable because you are "right".

Check out page 4 of Upgrade Paths in Entry Level, and "Accuracy" string for the evidence.

It has nothing to do with the evidence, not "I think I am right", or my opinion. I hope you are not suggesting I should have "doctored" or suppressed the scientific evidence to hide it from the viewers.


Quote:
My point is that you were being nasty and negative (and disappearing down a rabbit hole of endless self-referential posts, too).

Page 4, 5 of Upgrade Paths? I requested Ethan to stop more than once.

You would have me continually retyping entire posts? One can read the exact comments Ethan and I posted, in context, by providing links so one gets the truth.


Quote:
I suggest you could attempt to make your points differently.

Be specific and give an example(s). You could have also said the same thing to Ethan, but you have not.


Quote:
(Alternatively, when you first doubted the graphs, you could have considered addressing this to Ethan/his website, rather than going public on the forum with accusations.)

The public does not have a right to know what was being fostered off on them?

Sorry, but I cannot perform a cover up.

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