You are here

Log in or register to post comments
Monty
Monty's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2005 - 6:55pm
October 2008 Issue

It's going to be a fun month for the gang at Stereophile. I'm
predicting a record number of "Letters to the Editor."

bertdw
bertdw's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 19 hours ago
Joined: Sep 18 2007 - 5:41am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Since I'm sure most of us have not yet received the October issue, I find your post to be exceptionally cruel.

RGibran
RGibran's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: Oct 11 2005 - 5:50pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Maybe JA can get the real Melissa Etheridge to write the next

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Hmm... I don't think Jason drives a Hummer, rgibran.

You sound mad. Why?

jamesgarvin
jamesgarvin's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: Sep 2 2005 - 12:22pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Jason writes (I am paraphrasing), I presume with a straight face, that he seeks to keep from being forced to paddle NYC in a canoe by 2030, and so he demands that manufacturers not use endangered woods on their speakers, else he takes a pass. NYC under water by 2030? Please. This type of hyperbole is what causes rational folks from being environmentally conscious in much the same way that preachers who preach armageddon by 2010 unless ye repent turns off rational folks from religion. Tone down the hyperbole, and you might actually attract some folks to your cause. Unless, of course, you have scientific evidence that NYC will be under water by 2030, and that it is in any way connected to mnufacturer's use of endangered woods.

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Unless, of course, you have scientific evidence that NYC will be under water by 2030, and that it is in any way connected to mnufacturer's use of endangered woods.

I believe Jason is discussing the possible effects of global warming, which brings him to caring about the environment and our planet, in general. As an audiophile, then, he wonders what he can do to make a positive difference in an industry where we have people willing to chop down endangered trees to be used as loudspeaker cabinets.

I sure hope NYC won't be under water by 2030, but there has been lots of research done regarding just that possibility. This report has been floating around the internet. The 2030 figure might have come from here. And anyone who lives in the area knows exactly what kind of damage a little heavy rain can do to our city. A flooded subway can quite literally -- and easily -- cripple this great city.

I read an article describing the potential for an entire collapse of NYC due to a simple subway flood. The author surmised it would take no more than a decade for NYC to be taken over by trees; subways would flood, electricity would be lost; buildings would fall... The city is simply not prepared for the massive winds and heavy rains.

All that said, I admit I don't have any facts on this. Let me try to find the article. It's really fascinating.

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Let me try to find the article. It's really fascinating.

This is interesting, but not the article I am looking for.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

I believe Jason is discussing the possible effects of global warming, which brings him to caring about the environment and our planet, in general. As an audiophile, then, he wonders what he can do to make a positive difference in an industry where we have people willing to chop down endangered trees to be used as loudspeaker cabinets.

I think that conservation and global warming are two different things. You can argue about global warming and whether it's a crock of shit, but conservation is conservation regardless of one's viewpoint on the global warming debate.


Quote:

I sure hope NYC won't be under water by 2030, but there has been lots of research done regarding just that possibility. This report has been floating around the internet. The 2030 figure might have come from here. And anyone who lives in the area knows exactly what kind of damage a little heavy rain can do to our city. A flooded subway can quite literally -- and easily -- cripple this great city.

I think the Dutch should be more concerned about that. My feeling on the matter is that as long as Netherlands survives, we're ok. Once the Dutch start gargling, that's when I start getting concerned.


Quote:

I read an article describing the potential for an entire collapse of NYC due to a simple subway flood. The author surmised it would take no more than a decade for NYC to be taken over by trees; subways would flood, electricity would be lost; buildings would fall... The city is simply not prepared for the massive winds and heavy rains.

In that case, I suggest we sell Manhattan back to the Indians while the real estate prices are still high.


Quote:
All that said, I admit I don't have any facts on this. Let me try to find the article. It's really fascinating.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's all conjecture. Forty years ago it was the "The Russians are coming", then it was "Ban the Nukes". Twenty years ago it was "Save the Whales", then it was "Save the rain forest", now it's "Global Warming". I think it's within the American culture to predict doomsday scenarios between disco eras.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
I think it's within the American culture to predict doomsday scenarios between disco eras.


Disco is coming back?

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Twenty years ago it was "Save the Whales", then it was "Save the rain forest", now it's "Global Warming". I think it's within the American culture to predict doomsday scenarios between disco eras.

You may be right about our affinity to doomsday scenarios. And I think that's a human trait, more than simply an American one. But I do think we are also too short-sighted; we live very irresponsibly, very selfishly, without putting enough emphasis on the fates of generations to come. I think the whales and rain forests, to use your examples, still need to be saved. These are not fads (and neither is vinyl).

Having said that, I admit: I am not doing much to help (except for with the vinyl).

rvance
rvance's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2007 - 9:58am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

Quote:
I think it's within the American culture to predict doomsday scenarios between disco eras.


Disco is coming back?

Has it really ever left us?

Do a little dance.

Make a little love.

Get down tonight!

BTW, I remember the good old '60's and '70's when I was in love with life, hating the gov't. and on fire with outrage about the Vietnam war, pollution and our cheesy, consumerist bullshit "culture" that worshipped the almighty dollar at the expense of everything else. I thought the Beatles and I were making Earth a better place. I protested the war, qualified Prop. 9 (The Clean Environment Act) for the '72 California ballot and turned my friends on to the best weed I could score.

I've tempered my perspective with age, but I say right on JVS! Give 'em hell. If you are apathetic and devoid of youthful exuberance and conviction, just step aside and let the young man (ain't got nuthin' in the world these days) walk by.

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
I thought the Beatles and I were making Earth a better place.

Dude, you were making the world a better place. You did make the world a better place.

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

No he didn't! All the hipsters turned corporate and started worshiping the mighty dollar they rebelled against. I guess that eventually even they discovered that being poor isn't cool at all.

My friend Stew was the same way. He protested the war, he proclaimed the virtues of socialism and then he bought a $50k stereo system.

Monty
Monty's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2005 - 6:55pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Someday, I hope you guys have the staff to compile a "Special Edition" issue
of Stereophile, Letters to the Editor.

Ain't nuthin' more fun than a nicely bound compilation of rants. Well, P.J. O'Rourke and
Douglas Adams, maybe.

smejias
smejias's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 weeks ago
Joined: Aug 25 2005 - 10:29am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
No he didn't! All the hipsters turned corporate and started worshiping the mighty dollar they rebelled against. I guess that eventually even they discovered that being poor isn't cool at all.

My friend Stew was the same way. He protested the war, he proclaimed the virtues of socialism and then he bought a $50k stereo system.

It doesn't matter, Alex. All you have to do is stop and think of how the world might be if people didn't make beautiful music or fight for peace.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Back in my day, we sang it differently...

"Do a little dance

Take a little drugs...

Get down tonight."

When I worked in a bar, for Burning Down the House it was, "Watch out. We're in for nasty women..." with a chorus of, "This one's on the house!"

Ah. Great days.

Great days.

Proof of global warming exists.

It's been known since the 60's.

All one has to do is review the US Government horticultural zones for advising people about plant and crop zones, and you'll see the "temperate" areas have been moving north for 40 plus years.

The first revision of this "global warming era" took place back in 1965....but it showed a five year period of "global cooling."

Since then, Washington D.C. has actually warmed up an entire "zone's worth."

Now, whether Shun Mook is to blame for using ebony, I can't say.

Another cool thing to track is latitudes that support tropcial diseases, and these have been moving further and further from the equator.

Evidence of global warming, or evidence of parasitic evolution, transport of parasites by people...can't say.

Both pieces of evidence allow that warming may be occurring. So, I wouldn't go with "crock of shit," but I'd stop short of 'inconevnient truth.'

Not trying to be inflammatory.

I haven't finished the column yet, how's Jason's walk back to the west coast progressing?

I'm already kind of with Jason. I try not to but products made where wages, conditions, or pollution controls are substandard - read, China.

(I also boycott Walmart and try to shop and eat 'locally.')

I'm sure AlexO would disagree, since those Chinese products are cheaper.

Monty
Monty's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2005 - 6:55pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Global warming is dead. The new phrase is simply "climate change." That leaves a lot
of wiggle room for being wrong without having to admit being wrong.

Our planet has warmed and cooled through its entire history. Continents have shifted,
seas have risen and fallen, ice melts, ice forms and all sorts of other changes occur
constantly. "Climate change" is an absolute certainty that doesn't depend on anything
to happen.

I read an article last month that indicated that for the first time in many decades the
Sun had no spots and the immediate result was a lowering of global temperatures. So much
so that scientists believe we are in for a rapid cooling phase for the next decade
or two. That's climate change that has nothing to do with mankind, except for the shorter
growing season, reduced food production, increased energy consumption and probably a
severe global food shortage. If they are right, we'll be able to measure this one with
unequivacable cause and effect.

There is good stewardship and then there is the environmentalist radicals that aren't
all that different from the leftist radicals of the 60s, with the same objectives being
funded by the same Marxists.

The good news for everybody is that the free market will adjust and require alternative
energy resources regardless of environmental concerns. It'll be more out of necessity rather
than environmental concerns. The emerging economies will deplete supplies of existing resources
to the point of intolerable levels of inflation and increased commodity prices. That's when
alternative energy will take the baton.

The right will be happy with the economic soundness of the investment and the left "should" be
happy with cleaner, renewable sources of energy. Nobody will be happy with the cost of energy.
It's going to be expensive.

dcstep
dcstep's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2007 - 4:59pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

My first reaction was, "oh crap, Stereophile is getting political again and lining up with Al Gore, can't those stupid bastards stay out of this kind of issue? If I wanted to read this crap I'd subscribe to the NYTimes." Then I read the list of things to consider and thought, "well, that's not so bad, at least there are some constructive suggestions for concerned audiophiles."

The question remains, will Stereophile put its money where its mouth is, BUT that's not the main thought. Many audiophiles can make choices that will minimize CO2 emmissions, etc. I happen to believe that sub-marine volcanic activity has way more impact on CO2 than mankind, but I do believe that mankind can have a small impact on the levels and there are other benefits to being "green." So, I support balanced green efforts, but I'm also for oil & gas exploration, nuclear energy development, natural gas powered fleets, fuel cell development, hybrid cars, all-electric cars, wind energy, solar enery, low CO2 coal development and any other technology that makes the US energy independant.

So, overall, I found the article useful, if a bit annoying with its PC introduction. Of course, a really powerful statement can be ruined with a little loose science. It would have more powerful if it'd simply listed some things for "green" audiophiles to consider when selecting components. After all, audiophilia is an optional, luxury activity and should be done with awareness of raw material preservation and minimal ecological damage.

BTW, if NYC is going to be underwater in 2030, there's nothing we can do about it. Those volcanos don't really give a crap how we power our cars and homes.

Dave

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

It doesn't matter, Alex. All you have to do is stop and think of how the world might be if people didn't make beautiful music or fight for peace.

You know, you're going to get me started on a rant.

I'm all for beautiful music and peace. That's all great. Unfortunately, the way I see it, these generalized statements of "peace" and "global warming" and "gay marriage" are distractions to focus the masses' attention away from the real issues, which mostly tend to be economic.

Wars are sometimes necessary. Even the unjust, colonial wars are a necessity and might be supported if the spoils of war are distributed throughout the nation.

The environmentalist movement is really a socialist movement hiding behind environmental issues. I don't mind the socialist movement. There are many socialist ideas that have merit and should be incorporated within this society. However, I prefer honest debates. Let's debate socialism, rather than "global warming" as a ruse to introduce socialist ideas through the back door.

Another problem with the environmental movements is that they always cost the little guy money. How about coming up with some environmental ideas that don't cost us money? How about the "Environmental cheapskate"? We'll get Sam Tellig to write a column on the subject.

Getting back on track, I think it was Neil Young said in an interview that at the time, we thought we could change the world through music. We were too young to realize that was a bit naive.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
. . . we live very irresponsibly, very selfishly, without putting enough emphasis on the fates of generations to come.


Yeah, but what has posterity ever done for me?

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

It's not the size of the dog in the fight-it's the size of the fight in the dog.

As for music changing the world, it can.

You just need to have the balls to stay on track. And be strong enough to give it all away, as smartly and as effectively as possible. It's like that with any endeavor.

A major consideration is that individuals have to be brought to the trough of understanding and forced (as they will refuse) to drink deeply. This concerns the concept/understanding that reality exists far beyond that of the emotional ties (to their own concepts of reality) in the skull of any given individual- and their base desire (as an internal system that is literally the driver of their entire life force) to see any and all solutions come to the fore that maintain their own internal and preexistent sense of comfort.

Basically, we're getting into a subject area that has multitudes of unclear concepts and definitions.

Global warming is real. It is a "not fully understood" phenomenon.

But..the SUN'S control over the environment is ALSO real - and is a "not fully understood" phenomenon.

The ignorant say that global warming does not exist.

The ignorant say that global warming is real.

Both are right. Both are wrong.

The answer lies in there being manipulated and controlled data and information sets from the proponents of either camp, with higher level persons and hidden agendas being the real push in either camp. This has been the way of the world for over 12,000 years.

Manipulation of the masses by the few - with as many choice words or concepts that affect the greater mass as is necessary to get the job done. Like driving a goddamn giant ox cart. Some even get quite good at it. Give the herd some fear to chew on to blind the small amount of reasoning and logic they can employ, and that small level of reason goes out the window. The use of the flaming carrot... or the nice carrot which will enable the steering of them at whatever level required.. thus..the direction and way that this 'base public mass desire' can be steered through or to. Even the middle managers of such a system are dumb enough to think they are possessors of the 'truth'. Not. It is always a small cabal of people - at the top.

It's like driving giant schools of fish or herds of cattle.

If you get your information out of magazines and newspapers and don't look at the depth of the situation regarding the multiple agendas of any given camp...then you are part of that herd or school.

As usual, clarity begins with the analysis of the self, and allowing truth to come from within. With a clearer understanding of the nature of the self, then one can begin looking at the world and gaining some clarity. But it is a long path, and many veils will be lifted before any real truth is known.

One great clue as to the why of the wold, is that empathy is a genetic construct. Environment does play a part-but genetics do play a part here. Overall, 40% of the human race is affected by it. Some are minorly non-empathetic..ie, less identification with a squirrel crushed on the street. A recent example of low empathy danger, as a warning sign of what is to come from someone---is Palin making/allowing laws in Alaska to shoot bears and wolves from helicopters- this is insanely low empathy and basic inhumanity at work, here. These people don't actually realize they are broken. They think killing is OK.

This cascades all the way to the least empathetic (low empathy feeds off of internal fears and baser desires, as love is a very weak construct within them), whom can be found tying cats to barbwire fences and gutting them - as teens sometimes can, and the like. My understanding is that Bush exhibited some semblance of these 'low emptahy' warning signs as a young man. These are NOT the kinds of people you want to be in control of people's lives and fate. Learning to recognize these people is key, however they are very good at hiding, especially from the folks they manipulate, which are the masses of society that don't understand these concepts.

To re-iterate...people are born with various levels of innate genetically determined capacities for empathy and shared emotions. The frightening part, is that due to the fact that the human model is one of like attracting like with regards to personal relationships---they breed together. And stick together. Think about it. Think about where that goes.

Some are quite low empathy individuals. They can cut through human values-like a hot knife through butter. They simply don't see it-and never will.

And it is THOSE people who you will find at the top levels of our nightmarish scenarios -Due to their ability to bypass human value in their highly personally driven agendas and desires. That brutality towards anything outside of them, that they can 'evoke' from themselves, is what defeats you. For your origins and desires colour your capacity to see that -which is within them.

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

Quote:
. . . we live very irresponsibly, very selfishly, without putting enough emphasis on the fates of generations to come.


Yeah, but what has posterity ever done for me?

It takes away immediate chances at pleasure, in order to share them with the beings of and in the future. Basic reasoning tied to empathy. Not an unreasonable way to live.

That's that fucking money thing for you.*

However, I think you spake a joke.

*(Idea! I know! Let's take human value systems and basic empathy and displace these human relations with fascination for dreams of personal desire. We'll embody it in a nightmare called 'money!' That'll fuck em up! And, it will offer a control system as well! Man..this could work!-thus spake the Babylonian elite, 12,000 years ago.)

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Clarity begins when the body Thetans are cleared from our meat bodies.

Only once we remove the left over alien Thetans brogught here by Xenu can we become clear.

_____

Anyway, as a cynic, I've always been struck by how arguments "opposing global warming" are all pretty much based on cash.

"If we address this silly concept, the economy will slow," or "Global warming can't be real, if we try to fix it, it will cost alot of money."

Just for fun, check out the "anti" warming sites. Many seem more concerned about Wal Mart than Wallabies.

Although I am a hypocrite - atheist - I kind of use the Jamesian approach here. (I do admit to being selective about when I use this approach, but, what the heck, I am human...)

If global warming is real, and we do try to change our behavior, then we have done well. If it is not real, and we try to change are behavior, then we have wasted only our own time - and hopefully gotten laid during the process.

I see it as a tie or a win. If we act as good shephards (great term, man,) then we will either be rewarded or have gained nothing.

It's a no lose scenario. The worst we can do is end up acting as good shepherds.

The "economic" global warming naysayers remind me of those who were being addressed in this (in)famous speech:

"In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we've discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose."

Remember who said that and what happened to him after he said it?

The me being a "hypocrite again" part here is: "...We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose...says the audiophile."

rvance
rvance's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2007 - 9:58am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Clarity begins when the body Thetans are cleared from our meat bodies.

Only once we remove the left over alien Thetans brogught here by Xenu can we become clear.

Quote:

Cruise nailed the e-meter on that one! And the L. Ron Hubbard celestial cash register.


Quote:
"In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we've discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose." Remember who said that and what happened to him after he said it?

JC came out of the piney woods of Georgia. He knew the consequence of poverty and the limits of affluence.

He has since spent his "golden years" in the service of the less fortunate. God bless him.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Many seem more concerned about Wal Mart than Wallabies.


Monty
Monty's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2005 - 6:55pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

As tempting as it would be to noodle philosophy, I am entirely unequipped to
match wits with people who have made it a life's journey. Even worse, I would
compound the error through poor typing skills and grammar. However, there does
exist a competing philosophy to the "collectivist" dominated culture of higher
education.

I tend to gravitate more toward Objectivism as promoted by Ayn Rand. Needless to say,
we would find little agreement in the area of politics and one's journey to find
truth.

Francisco's words hit me in the head with a hammer many years ago. The older I get,
the more compelling they become.

Francisco's Money Speech

Perhaps we all are wired differently and our perceptions of truth and reality prevent
us from reaching the "...primary truths or first principles from which all subsequent reasoning
must begin."

Jim Tavegia
Jim Tavegia's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 4:27pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

What I got out of the entire piece is that we should be more careful what and how we dump stuff in landfills, and you don't need a PhD to appreciate that (or be a liberal), but a full page rant to lift up Al Gore is a bit much to me. If he did create the internet then how can Window's Vista not be his fault as well? I can't wait for Al Gore to do a cameo in one of Apple's commercials.

And if we do make changes, China's environmental approach will certainly cancel out anything we might do! Just what did China do with all that smog prior to the Olympics? You just know they have recycled it into something we will be buying over the Christmas holidays. Knowledge without political clout is meaningless, and I am not talking about more legislation. That usually just makes implementation more costly. People can be moved to action on a more personal level than by a new government program with 7-9 figures being spent on a new "Department". Maybe that is the point of "As We See It".

When I see all the disclaimers on the latest drug ads I have to wonder do people really know what they are taking when the side effects are worst than their original condition? Do we really know what is better for us? Maybe the vinyl resurgence means there is hope for us reassessing what "is better"! Maybe new and improved is really not!

Now the auto companies letting themselves be held captive by the oil industry has to be the biggest business gaffe of all time. Every New Yorker without a driver's license may be having the last laugh. If in the Graduate, Benjamin was told "Plastics" is the "thing", well, now it has to be recyclable, rechargeable "batteries

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Great points, Jim. *Liberal-Approved*

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Happy birthday, Erik B!

I should have known a great guy like you would have such a fantastic birthday!

Three cheers!

rvance
rvance's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2007 - 9:58am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Happy Birthday Erik_B! I hope you have a chance to recycle some quality spirits today...

bifcake
bifcake's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Nov 27 2005 - 2:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
What I got out of the entire piece is that we should be more careful what and how we dump stuff in landfills, and you don't need a PhD to appreciate that (or be a liberal), but a full page rant to lift up Al Gore is a bit much to me. If he did create the internet then how can Window's Vista not be his fault as well? I can't wait for Al Gore to do a cameo in one of Apple's commercials.

Speaking of Al Gore, I actually saw his movie. I thought he made a convincing case, albeit there were some holes in it that I could see even without being privy to the data or being able to judge the accuracy of his predictions.

Consequently, I found out how Al Gore makes his money: He is a partner in a business that manages carbon trading. That's when I realized that Al Gore was full of shit.

Al Gore wants to come down to us like Moses from the top of Mount Sinai and say, "people of Israel, I am here to warn you of the impending doom and to rescue you from the wrath of God." Well, that's all well and good, but once you have a financial stake in it, then all you are is just another lobbyist trying to push an agenda that would benefit your own business.

Al Gore may be right, I really don't know, but his motives are suspect and his credibility is shot from my standpoint. If you want to be Jesus, and rescue the masses, and spread the word, then you can't have a financial stake in it. Once you have a financial interest in the agenda you're trying to push, then you qualify for the phrase that defines all evil of this world: "Special Interest".

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

On the other hand.. I've played with calves, played with cattle (kinda skitterish when they're grown, though), hugged them, gave them names, washed them up, took care of them (pet them, scratch them) etc. I think that they're treated quite inhumanely, viciously, in fact. Zero concern for the fears of the animal, in and around the moment of death. I've even known men who have gone insane from the job of killing them. (no man is allowed to kill cattle every day. It drives them insane-the job is passed around the crew to avoid this)

But I still eat them.

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Happy Birthday Erik_B! I hope you have a chance to recycle some quality spirits today...

Yes, happy one Eric - from another Virgo. Virgos Unite!..and nit-pick the world to death.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
On the other hand.. I've played with calves, played with cattle (kinda skitterish when they're grown, though), hugged them, gave them names, washed them up, took care of them (pet them, scratch them) etc. I think that they're treated quite inhumanely, viciously, in fact. Zero concern for the fears of the animal, in and around the moment of death. I've even known men who have gone insane from the job of killing them. (no man is allowed to kill cattle every day. It drives them insane-the job is passed around the crew to avoid this)

But I still eat them.

You eat insane cattlemen?

Reminds me of...

Shooter McGavin: I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

Happy Gilmore: You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Someone has to. But not the cattlemen, actually. Just the guys in the processing plants. Lots if them too chose from, and there's blood everywhere (there really is-it's quite grotesque-people have no idea), so it's easy to hide the evidence.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
But I still eat them.


If God didn't mean for us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

That generated audible laughter.

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Thanks, Buddha!

I learned some important life skills on my birthday, including (but not limited to):

-how to make a toga out of a sheet
-how to make a bottle of wine disappear
-how to sing "Hotel California" after making a bottle of wine disappear

I think this is going to be a vintage year.

Also, I see that it's YOUR birthday today, so happy birthday to you!

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Yes,...Oh no. Another damn Virgo.

Are we going to take over the world yet?

BTW, the largest representation of a specific zodiac sign in the wold of Billionaires...is the sign of Virgo.

Happy B day, Buddha. May you live to swill more vino.

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

I actually should have been a Scorpio. Preemie win?

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue

Astrology is predicated on the aspect of being separated..and free and clear of the birth mother's body..and then subject to the aetheric fields on one's own, thus the moment of birth shaping the person from that point. Bearing both the imprint of the planetary alignments of that day..and then affected by them (planetary motions) from that moment on-but the person is dominated by the energies of that specific day and time of birth..like a slowly ebbing/fading snapshot of enforced flow of life and character.

There's a lot more to it than that, and suffice it to say..that astrology is the mother of all politics, science, sociology, psychology, math, numbers theory, astronomy, philosophy, storytelling (History), record keeping, deductive reasoning, and esoteric knowledge. It is the origin of human thought as connected to reason through observation. Einstein, for example, admitted that astrology was on his list of items that worked - but he could not explain. It is the most complex and advanced science known to man-when it comes to what it can do for a given man... But it is not recognized by 'science' as seen today, as the mainstream (And yes, to me a particle physicist is mainstream) does not understand the depth and complexity --so it is dismissed. To say it is..when fully understood..nothing less than a doorway to the more rarefied levels of reason and existence, would be an understatement. To even begin to get a grasp of the idea of what it may mean, can take a minimum of 5 years (or a lifetime-it has no upper limit), for an intelligent person who is strong willed and supremely dedicated.

So yes..you are a Virgo.

dbowker
dbowker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 day ago
Joined: May 8 2007 - 6:37am
Re: October 2008 Issue

"Yeah, but what has posterity ever done for me?"

Off-hand, I'd say keeping you (and me) from being a citizen of a global Third Reich...

That, and every right we have under the US Constitution, and many of us as part of one of the wealthiest nations on the planet.

I don't buy NYC will be under water because we are far to innovative to let it happen (like the Netherlands comment). But if too much has to go into fixing global catastrophes we all lose because we don't get to work on the luxuries we all currently enjoy. Anyone, and I mean anyone who is even reading this forum or the magazine is clearly in a position of relative wealth only imagined by most of the world population. A majority who would be REALLY happy just to have clean water, a toilet and refrigeration, without a militia knocking at their door occasionally.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
"Yeah, but what has posterity ever done for me?"

Off-hand, I'd say keeping you (and me) from being a citizen of a global Third Reich...

A number are missing the joke.

Posterity is all future generations - not the past. Thus the rhetorical question; it focuses attention on the egocentric mindset of most humans.

bobedaone
bobedaone's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
Joined: Feb 1 2007 - 12:27am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Would you repeat that? I saw myself in the mirror and got distracted.

dbowker
dbowker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 day ago
Joined: May 8 2007 - 6:37am
Re: October 2008 Issue

I pretty much got that, but the question still deserved a answer to the more general tone of the discussion. Most people's idea of posterity has more to do with having their head UP their own posterior.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
Einstein, for example, admitted that astrology was on his list of items that worked - but he could not explain.


Einstein did no such thing. While astrologers love quoting each other's reference to Einstein, there is no source for the "quote". In fact, Einstein referred to astrology as the "inner enemy", obscuring the truth.

(By the way, Einstein never flunked math either.)

I try to leave your regular mis-statements of science and the scientific method alone, but occasionally I can't take it.

Back to your regular programming . . .

ethanwiner
ethanwiner's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 1 2005 - 2:26pm
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:
the person is dominated by the energies of that specific day and time of


So by that logic everyone born in the same hospital around the same time will have identical lives? Yeah, right.


Quote:
Einstein, for example, admitted that astrology was on his list of items that worked


Nonsense. From http://www.randi.org/jr/02-09-2001.html:


Quote:
Re that Einstein quote. This is a good example of astrologers quoting each other nth hand, but with nobody ever checking the original quote. In a letter in
Monty
Monty's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 16 2005 - 6:55pm
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

Quote:

So by that logic everyone born in the same hospital around the same time will have identical lives? Yeah, right.

It is said that in addition to the current planetary alignment effects at birth there are two other aspects that affect your destiny 1) the suitcase of past karma that follows you into this life. 2) the future actions you undertake.

Getting your ass out of bed in the morning should not be underestimated.

KBK
KBK's picture
Offline
Last seen: Never ago
Joined: Sep 30 2007 - 12:30pm
Re: October 2008 Issue


Quote:

Quote:
Einstein, for example, admitted that astrology was on his list of items that worked - but he could not explain.


Einstein did no such thing. While astrologers love quoting each other's reference to Einstein, there is no source for the "quote". In fact, Einstein referred to astrology as the "inner enemy", obscuring the truth.

(By the way, Einstein never flunked math either.)

I try to leave your regular mis-statements of science and the scientific method alone, but occasionally I can't take it.

Back to your regular programming . . .

Hey sure, I'll stand corrected. If a person cannot stand such, well... what good are they when it comes to learnin'?

However..if that is what Einstein said.. if you knew astrology..if you knew what astrologers say if you knew what astrology REALLY is...it is exactly what Einstein MEANT. THAT is the key.

Meaning?: It satiated his 'academic' and 'scientific' colleagues...at the the same time it told the astrologers that he understood exactly what they were saying. And that he believed it fully.

Give the man a hand for such erudite thinking...to pull off an utterance of the exact words needed for both parties.

The astrologers knew it. It flew completely over the heads of the rest-who manged to preserve their ignorance.

That is why Astrologers quote Einstein. The quote is real, and is -exactly real- with respect to how the Astrologers use it.

As for flunking math, I don't recall ever saying exactly that. But I do recall reading in print and in at least one documentary..that Einstein did indeed require some help on the mathematics, when formulating some aspects of general relativity. Being creative and intelligent does not necessarily mean one is good at all tasks that may surround their given area of endeavor.

What was stated about flunking, IIRC, was that he was reported as 'having some difficulty', not flunking..ie a stressful time in earlier parts of his life. Not unusual for someone with high intelligence...lots of cross-wiring to deal with. Great neural inter-connectivity can give one grief, in the earlier parts of life. Sensory overload and sorting issues. Filtering is the more common issue. I'm not just ambidextrous, for example (evidence of strong cross-wiring or good hemisphere balance) I'm..er...multidextrous. I think that most folks can teach themselves such skills..as many folks have been forced to, due to accidents, for example. Another example, is that you can put a page in a mirror, upside down, in front of me..and I'll quickly begin reading it as fast as most people are reading this text. I don't feel this is a unique or special situation..I think, once again, that most folks can teach themselves such things. Nice party trick. But it can be indicative, like Einstein's noted earlier difficulties.

In conclusion, I had no idea that Einstein negotiated that particular situation so well. He surprises me still.

Thanks for the actual quote.

Buddha
Buddha's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: Sep 8 2005 - 10:24am
Re: October 2008 Issue

Man, after travelling all those millions and billions of miles, through who knows what conditions, I take some comfort in now knowing that aetheric fields cannot penetrate a uterus.

You'd think we could find a way to dupblicate that uterine characteristic and build aetheric field resistant shelters.

Shouldn't we really be calculating all this stuff on date of conception?

Boy, try getting that info out of your mom.

Then again, the egg that created you had been sitting around for years being affected by those aetheric fields, so this might not even be as simple as getting conception date.

I was going to ask my aura reader what I should think, but she's been busy with picking VP candidates in St. Paul.

______

Coincidental story:

When I was a kid, around ten or so, my mom was friends with a gypsy fortune teller and they'd do all the Tarot this and telling the future that, and the lady told me to come over and pick the cards. So, I did, and she looked at them and gave me the gypsy stink eye and said, "This one's future can't be seen. He is opaque."

Anyway, nothing terrible happened after that, but then when I was in college, I went to Montreal and my girlfriend wanted our group to go visit some 'famous' fortune teller there.

Each person in turn would pick some cards and then there was some rule of order that would place the cards into a t-shape, with a vertical and horizontal row of three, with the middle card in common. From that configuration, the fortune teller would tell the person things about their future - spouse, kids, etc...and then, your final, most important card would be drawn, and the future would be revealed with even more in depth chat taking place.

So, my turn came, and after my little cross of cards was made, the lady said nothing. After a long pause, she said, there is no other card for you, you are opaque."

She used the same term.

Good enough for me.

My girlfriend seemed alarmed and starting asking questions. The fortune teller said something about sometimes, for some people, the future is not yet determined, or how sometimes a person can be a "free agent," or that sometimes there are people who have no certain destiny, or how sometimes the fates leave some outcasts to determine their own path, blah blah blah.

It turned out to be the toughest 20 bucks that lady earned that day. She and my girlfriend spent more time talking about me than those ladies in that old movie, "The Women."

They concluded my opacity was a spiritual menace to the order of the universe, and the fortune teller dismissed me and pointed the gypsy finger at me. For years after that, I couldn't hear the difference between amplifiers of the same model from the same manufacturer.

Nowadays, my wife says I'm not so much opaque as I am dense.

Elk
Elk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: Dec 26 2006 - 6:32am
Re: October 2008 Issue

No, astrologers are completely wrong in quoting Einstein.

Einstein mentioned astrology only once, and then only to to excuse Johannes Kepler for having practiced astrology as a means to earn a living. The last sentences of Einstein's introduction to Baumgardt's book, Johannes Kepler: Life and Letter are:

"The reader should note the remarks on astrology. They show that [for Kepler] the inner enemy, conquered and rendered innocuous, was not yet completely dead."

Describing astrology as "conquered and rendered innocuous" is hardly an endorsement.

Pages

  • X
    Enter your Stereophile.com username.
    Enter the password that accompanies your username.
    Loading