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dlb
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The "New Black" supreme fuses from HiFi Tuning

Decided to try a HiFi Tuning Supreme Fuse in my NAD375BEE....Greg Weaver of Postive Feedback nailed it in his March review. These babies are light years better than the previous versions! Clarity, texture, tone and dynamic contrasts all improved.. the upper freqencies became more open and airy as well. Bottom line is that it removed the last remaining barriers preventing me from being able to feel as though the musicians were in my room.

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Reading the subject of your post

I thought Clarence Thomas had another justice of color on the bench! I think I should drink my coffee before reading the forums.

Trey

dlb
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One "Supreme" black fuse is all we have for now

What a sharp little wit you have! With coffee in you, there may be no limit to your imagination.

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Later

Specialty fuses may make an improvement. However, there are many other things in my rig that could/should be upgraded before I shell out for expensive fuses.

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depends?

Since putting a fuse such as the HiFi Supreme fuse into a component alters ones perception of how it performs or sounds, I would say that for the price, it is a no brainer. Unless of course $60 to $85 per fuse is gonna break the bank per se....in which case, you may want to get a cheaper hobbie:O)

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Cupid's arrow

Can one assume there's a little arrow thingy on the new Hi Fi Tuning fuse?

:-)

G. Kait
M. Dynamica

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Electricity being a fairly well understood science,

The idea of a fuse changing the sound of a component doesn't bother me.  What bothers me is the fact that you are altering either the current limiting or the voltage spike limiting aspect in order to let the powersupply work "better".  Which is, by definition, going to open you up to overworked filter caps, or a faulty power transistor running out and tripping your breaker, or worse, causing an electrical fire. 

Fuses are there and rated as they are for a reason.  Please someone explain to me (using engineering translated to English) how a fuse can allow your powersupply to better do it's job while still doing it's job.

Now providing that is all true, tell me why I wouldn't just buy one fancy pant's fuse and put it in my power strip/filter.  Would it make my Quantum Octave strip work better still?  And at that point wouldn't ALL my components be upgraded by default?  Better yet, for the price of a few of them, why not first replace the 12 or 14 gauge 110 line with a 10 gauge shielded line and higher amp dedicated breaker?

I know I'm getting a little silly, for a reason.  There is so much occurring at your ac BEFORE you ever plug your component in.  All of these things CAN and DO make a difference, but almost none of us get these things right (including myself) before we start fiddling around the edges and expecting huge differences.

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Bump

These things are starting to irk me a little.  All these little tweaks flying around and no one making an attempt to explain them.  I'm not by any means a hardcore objectivist.  I'm really interested in the real science behind any tweaks related to wiring and power delivery.

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Better Odds at Winning the Lottery
jgossman wrote:

These things are starting to irk me a little.  All these little tweaks flying around and no one making an attempt to explain them.  I'm not by any means a hardcore objectivist.  I'm really interested in the real science behind any tweaks related to wiring and power delivery.

Anyone can "explain" them, jut look at all the "experts" on here.

Now if you want some testing done with real measurements , don't hold your breath

Sorry but that's the facts of life. People would rather talk endlessly rather than do real tests. "I know what I heard" doen't count by the way for all you subjectivists..

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Hi Its very simple, fuses do

Hi

Its very simple, fuses do not make a difference.

Something so far removed from the electrical path of the path of the signal cannot make any difference at all. Despite what the sales people will tell you there is no such thing as  good sounding electricity, power is power, now of course having a power supply that can provide large instant current dumping is absolutely required and makes perfect sense.

Anyone who claims to be able to hear the difference a fuse makes is full of crap, all you have to do is ask the same person to do a blind test and i guarantee they will run away and talk about how bling tests are not valid

Dont buy into this snake oil $70 fuse bullshit

Alan

 

 

 

 

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Fuses

I tried the latest tuning fuses , they made a very small improvement . At my level a small improvement is all you can really ask for . A few hundred dollars for five fuses is inconsequential . Only your ear's can tell what is BS and what is not . 

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Oh Brother

So you knew ahead of time when the hundred dollar fuses were in and out of the circuit? It's  called expectation bias. "I spent a LOT of money on this so it better work" so of course it did. Try a SBT and report the results next time.

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You said it Tim :-)
tmsorosk wrote:

 Only your ear's can tell what is BS and what is not . 

 Tim, if only audiophiles would let your statement be the gospel, we wouldn't have unnecessary constant flame wars over tweaks. I don't know what's worse, is it the individual selling said tweak, or is it the skeptic that insists he is the 'golden ear' for everyone by slamming the seller of said tweak.

I must be dreaming...

Mark

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Expectation bias
JohnnyR wrote:

So you knew ahead of time when the hundred dollar fuses were in and out of the circuit? It's  called expectation bias. "I spent a LOT of money on this so it better work" so of course it did. Try a SBT and report the results next time.

Expectation bias, like its ugly sister negative expectation bias and its cousin, placebo effect, is just another lame excuse dreamed up by angry backsliding pseudo-skeptics who never actually listen to any of these so-called controversial things. If controversial tweaks didn't exist one wonders if the naysayers would have a different hobby, say knitting or collecting dolls....

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

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Co-inky-dinky
soulful.terrain wrote:
tmsorosk wrote:

 Only your ear's can tell what is BS and what is not . 

 Tim, if only audiophiles would let your statement be the gospel, we wouldn't have unnecessary constant flame wars over tweaks. I don't know what's worse, is it the individual selling said tweak, or is it the skeptic that insists he is the 'golden ear' for everyone by slamming the seller of said tweak.

I must be dreaming...

Mark

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh my go on and pull the other one now. Defending Mr Kait are you and now right after comes Mr Kait posting a response. how interesting. Are you sure you aren't related? Hmmmmm.

 By the way "golden ear" is a term used for the subjectivists who don't believe in doing measurements, hence $100 fuses, magic bowls,rocks in a baggie.

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Mr Blow Hard Returns
geoffkait wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

So you knew ahead of time when the hundred dollar fuses were in and out of the circuit? It's  called expectation bias. "I spent a LOT of money on this so it better work" so of course it did. Try a SBT and report the results next time.

Expectation bias, like its ugly sister negative expectation bias and its cousin, placebo effect, is just another lame excuse dreamed up by angry backsliding pseudo-skeptics who never actually listen to any of these so-called controversial things. If controversial tweaks didn't exist one wonders if the naysayers would have a different hobby, say knitting or collecting dolls.... Geoff Kait machina dynamica

 

Mr Kait, did you EVER buy that Hi-Fi you didn't have before? You really should if you are going to comment on an audio forum.

Yes indeed  silly "science" and "proof" and "honor" and "honesty" and "reality" are so pesky when they all get in the way of your sales isn't it?

 Just think, if you didn't make ...oh excuse me.....sell.....those things on your website then maybe you could have become a person people look up to and made a difference in the world......oh well.

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.
JohnnyR wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh my go on and pull the other one now. Defending Mr Kait are you and now right after comes Mr Kait posting a response. how interesting. Are you sure you aren't related? Hmmmmm.

 

I bet you're real fun at parties.

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Woooooooooooooo

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Party Time

 JohnyR talks like he's an expert on fuses but I bet he hasn't even tried them . Kind of reminds me of having young kids in the house , they no so much about things they have no experience with . HE should let his ears be the judge , not his mouth , but then he's already made up his mind . Nothing makes me chuckle more  than a narrow minded person that won't try a new tweak but will chastise others that do . 

                                                                          Party on  

                                                                              Tim

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Funny how that works
tmsorosk wrote:

 JohnyR talks like he's an expert on fuses but I bet he hasn't even tried them . Kind of reminds me of having young kids in the house , they no so much about things they have no experience with . HE should let his ears be the judge , not his mouth , but then he's already made up his mind . Nothing makes me chuckle more  than a narrow minded person that won't try a new tweak but will chastise others that do . 

                                                                          Party on  

                                                                              Tim

Yes, funny how that works. Take any tweak or specialized device that's just a wee bit controversial or difficult to explain or simply lacks an explanation and the frothing at the mouth skeptics come out of the woodwork from Hydrogen Auio, The Skeptical Community, the Randi Foundation and God knows where and jump all over it like ducks on a Junebug.

Shun Mook discs, ionizers, ultra thin cables, things that aren't in the signal path, demagnetizers, Schumann Frequency generators, tiny little bowls, the Red X Coordinate Pen - take your pick. It's either too small, too preposterous, too paranormal, too expensive or too unscientific for the anti-audiophile crowd.

Geoff Kait
machinadynamica.com

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yep
geoffkait wrote:
tmsorosk wrote:

 JohnyR talks like he's an expert on fuses but I bet he hasn't even tried them . Kind of reminds me of having young kids in the house , they no so much about things they have no experience with . HE should let his ears be the judge , not his mouth , but then he's already made up his mind . Nothing makes me chuckle more  than a narrow minded person that won't try a new tweak but will chastise others that do . 

                                                                          Party on  

                                                                              Tim

Yes, funny how that works. Take any tweak or specialized device that's just a wee bit controversial or difficult to explain or simply lacks an explanation and the frothing at the mouth skeptics come out of the woodwork from Hydrogen Auio, The Skeptical Community, the Randi Foundation and God knows where and jump all over it like ducks on a Junebug. Shun Mook discs, ionizers, ultra thin cables, things that aren't in the signal path, demagnetizers, Schumann Frequency generators, tiny little bowls, the Red X Coordinate Pen - take your pick. It's either too small, too preposterous, too paranormal, too expensive or too unscientific for the anti-audiophile crowd. Geoff Kait machinadynamica.com

Exactly Geoff.

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I Got a Chuckle
tmsorosk wrote:

 Nothing makes me chuckle more  than a narrow minded person that won't try a new tweak but will chastise others that do . 

                                                                          Party on  

                                                                              Tim

Nothing makes me chuckle more than a narrow minded person that makes subjective claims about fuses but can't back them up in any shape or form with REAL tests but relies upon "what they heard"  Really funny stuff.

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If it Quacks Like a Duck........
geoffkait][quote=tmsorosk wrote:

 Yes, funny how that works. Take any tweak or specialized device that's just a wee bit controversial or difficult to explain or simply lacks an explanation and the frothing at the mouth skeptics come out of the woodwork from Hydrogen Auio, The Skeptical Community, the Randi Foundation and God knows where and jump all over it like ducks on a Junebug. Shun Mook discs, ionizers, ultra thin cables, things that aren't in the signal path, demagnetizers, Schumann Frequency generators, tiny little bowls, the Red X Coordinate Pen - take your pick. It's either too small, too preposterous, too paranormal, too expensive or too unscientific for the anti-audiophile crowd. Geoff Kait machinadynamica.com

 Thank you King of the Frauds for listing the silly tweaks that really don't work. Saves time on typing. You did forget your crap nonsense "products" though. Surely they belong on top of the pile. Teleport Tweak comes to mind easily. Care to show some proof that the above products actually work or are you relying upon just more "say so" from the sheep?

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Gosh He Responds Again
soulful.terrain wrote:

 

 

 

Exactly Geoff.

Oh look it's Tweedle Dum backing up Tweedle Dee again. what a surprise.

 You really out did yourself on THAT remark.  Take it easy before you burn out.

Have you ever bought any of Mr Kait's "products"? If not then why not? Come on, we want a "real" review from you.

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Proof of the pudding is in the eating

"You did forget your crap nonsense "products" though?"

No. I'm too modest to promote my own products here.

.......................

"Surely they belong on top of the pile."

I suppose you're right. Nevertheless, modesty precludes my including them.

...............................

"Teleport Tweak comes to mind easily."

Surprise, surprise. BTW it's actually the Teleportation Tweak, but why quibble.

........................

"Care to show some proof that the above products actually work?"

No, not really. How strongly do you feel that proof should be provided for audio products? Isn't proof supposed to be provided by independent third parties?

Geoff Kait
Machina Dramatica

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No Surprise Here
geoffkait wrote:

"You did forget your crap nonsense "products" though?" No. I'm too modest to promote my own products here. ....................... "Surely they belong on top of the pile." I suppose you're right. Nevertheless, modesty precludes my including them. ............................... "Teleport Tweak comes to mind easily." Surprise, surprise. BTW it's actually the Teleportation Tweak, but why quibble. ........................ "Care to show some proof that the above products actually work?" No, not really. How strongly do you feel that proof should be provided for audio products? Isn't proof supposed to be provided by independent third parties? Geoff Kait Machina Dramatica

Uhhhhh hey genius, that's what Stereophile DOES, they TEST products to see if they live up to all the hype. I don't see ANY third party types on this forum saying anything good about your "products". Please point me to a single one.

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Geoff
geoffkait wrote:

"You did forget your crap nonsense "products" though?" No. I'm too modest to promote my own products here. ....................... "Surely they belong on top of the pile." I suppose you're right. Nevertheless, modesty precludes my including them. ............................... "Teleport Tweak comes to mind easily." Surprise, surprise. BTW it's actually the Teleportation Tweak, but why quibble. ........................ "Care to show some proof that the above products actually work?" No, not really. How strongly do you feel that proof should be provided for audio products? Isn't proof supposed to be provided by independent third parties? Geoff Kait Machina Dramatica

 

Geoff,

Go over to the Open Bar section and you will see what your dealing with concerning JohnnyR. This guy, girl, or whatever is the most bitter idiot you can possibly encounter. He hates everything. Including America.

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I hate to be judgemental
soulful.terrain wrote:
geoffkait wrote:

"You did forget your crap nonsense "products" though?" No. I'm too modest to promote my own products here. ....................... "Surely they belong on top of the pile." I suppose you're right. Nevertheless, modesty precludes my including them. ............................... "Teleport Tweak comes to mind easily." Surprise, surprise. BTW it's actually the Teleportation Tweak, but why quibble. ........................ "Care to show some proof that the above products actually work?" No, not really. How strongly do you feel that proof should be provided for audio products? Isn't proof supposed to be provided by independent third parties? Geoff Kait Machina Dramatica

 

Geoff,

Go over to the Open Bar section and you will see what your dealing with concerning JohnnyR. This guy, girl, or whatever is the most bitter idiot you can possibly encounter. He hates everything. Including America.

I hate to be judgemental but I suspect JohnnyR should probably be out standing on a ledge somewhere.

Geoff Kait
Machina dynamica

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Chuckle , Chuckle
JohnnyR wrote:
tmsorosk wrote:

 Nothing makes me chuckle more  than a narrow minded person that won't try a new tweak but will chastise others that do . 

                                                                          Party on  

                                                                              Tim

Nothing makes me chuckle more than a narrow minded person that makes subjective claims about fuses but can't back them up in any shape or form with REAL tests but relies upon "what they heard"  Really funny stuff.

    Who wants something that sounds good , " from what they heard " when they can have something that tests good but sounds awfull . Remember the Phaselinier scandal , prefect test measurements , but the worst sound since my Violin School days , ear plugs were not sufficient .                    Regards  Tim

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Rant Some more
soulful.terrain wrote:

 

 

Geoff,

Go over to the Open Bar section and you will see what your dealing with concerning JohnnyR. This guy, girl, or whatever is the most bitter idiot you can possibly encounter. He hates everything. Including America.

 Nahhhhh i just hate flag waving suckers that think free speech is only for themselves. Anyone else with their own opinions are "America haters" Grow up already and get a clue Tweedle Dee.

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The Dynamic Duo
geoffkait][quote=soulful.terrain wrote:

I hate to be judgemental but I suspect JohnnyR should probably be out standing on a ledge somewhere. Geoff Kait Machina dynamica

 I would suggest where you and your whole "business" should be right now but the truth would probably get me banned.  Bitter much yourself Mr Kait? Take a chill pill.

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Dredging Up Ancient Phase Linear as the Only Example .....yay
tmsorosk wrote:

    Who wants something that sounds good , " from what they heard " when they can have something that tests good but sounds awfull . Remember the Phaselinier scandal , prefect test measurements , but the worst sound since my Violin School days , ear plugs were not sufficient .                    Regards  Tim

Oh brother, you can't supply any tests or measurements so you resort to the old......"what if they measure poorly but sound good" BS. You have ZERO measurements so far and just "say so" on your part. perhaps you and Mr Kait can merge to form a new business venture. He does pretty well just making up stuff so far Let me ask you this, have you tried any of May Belt's tweaks or Mr Kaits?  Why not?  THEY SAY they work and make your music sound just jim dandy. I mean that's their WORD and you know they can be trusted.

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Wow

I was just wanting a little science, and before anyone could step in with an explanation, the thread just gets completely jacked.  Mr Johnny, I think you are off your G-D hinges.  You are ridiculous and should be banned from this forum.  Geoff, your products are completely beyond the pale for any technically minded audiophile.

So, while I'm a bit skeptical, I'm not looking to set off a flame war, I'm wishing for some explanation of how a fuse can do it's job as a fuse and effect the sound positively.  So please, Johnny - you are not a scientist or engineer, you are just a blowhard.   Geoff, you are just as bad.  Someone with some experience in power supply, maybe a supplier of real actually engineered power delivery products, tell me what could possibly be happening.

Thanks.

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Step up with an explanation
jgossman wrote:

I was just wanting a little science, and before anyone could step in with an explanation, the thread just gets completely jacked.  Mr Johnny, I think you are off your G-D hinges.  You are ridiculous and should be banned from this forum.  Geoff, your products are completely beyond the pale for any technically minded audiophile.

>>>As far as I know, noone, not NASA or AES or DARPA or IEEE, has ever provided an explanation for why fuses are directional, or for why cables are directional, that is acceptable to everyone, or to anyone for that matter. It's quite possible that noone knows. Farbeit from me to break the deadlock, even though my education is theoretical physics and atomic physics of crystals. The most reasonable way to find out if, in fact, fuses are directional is to reverse them one at a time in your system and evaluate the sound as you go, you know, assuming there's a 50% chance a given fuse was inserted with the proper direction to begin with. Yes, my products are a couple Sigmas off the norm, for technically minded audiophiles or for non-technical minded ones. LOL

So, while I'm a bit skeptical, I'm not looking to set off a flame war, I'm wishing for some explanation of how a fuse can do it's job as a fuse and effect the sound positively.  So please, Johnny - you are not a scientist or engineer, you are just a blowhard.   Geoff, you are just as bad.  Someone with some experience in power supply, maybe a supplier of real actually engineered power delivery products, tell me what could possibly be happening.

>>>>>>>>>I actually am a scientist and engineer, so please refrain from clumping me in the same box as Mr. Bluster.

Thanks.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

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Here's The Truth

Fuses CAN'T affect the sound of an amp's outputs UNLESS.........UNLESS.........they blow and then you get NO sound. He He. I don't understand why you want an explanation when there isn't one other than it's all BS, marketing and the manufacturer relying upon the gullibility of the buyer.

 Mr Kait......your speciality is BS.

"I actually am a scientist and engineer,"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh my THAT was the best joke I've heard all year.

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brain damage
JohnnyR wrote:
soulful.terrain wrote:

 

 

Geoff,

Go over to the Open Bar section and you will see what your dealing with concerning JohnnyR. This guy, girl, or whatever is the most bitter idiot you can possibly encounter. He hates everything. Including America.

 Nahhhhh i just hate flag waving suckers that think free speech is only for themselves. Anyone else with their own opinions are "America haters" Grow up already and get a clue Tweedle Dee.

Your incoherent. Nobody has advocated denying your feeble attempt at speech.

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Re: Here's The Truth

JohnnyR wrote:

Fuses CAN'T affect the sound of an amp's outputs UNLESS.........UNLESS.........they blow and then you get NO sound. He He. I don't understand why you want an explanation when there isn't one other than it's all BS, marketing and the manufacturer relying upon the gullibility of the buyer.

 

I must admit that I am skeptical about the effect of these fuses, except that one of my review team, Bob Deutsch, who is hardly a flake, has found them to produce an audible improvement. So what might be going on?

A fuse is by definition a poor resistor, so even if it doesn't blow, it will still be cyclically heated. If it is between the secondary of the transformer and a full-wave rectifier, it will heat up and down 120 times each second, which, depending on its own thermal time constant, will produce even-order distortion in the signal feeding the reservoir capacitors. Shouldn't matter, given the low-pass filtering effect of those caps.

But the current passed by the fuse is not a full-wave rectified sinewave but a series of very short 120Hz current pulses, with a very wide bandwidth. So the thermal modulation of the fuse resistance will be doubling the bandwidth of that noise. Does this matter? I am still skeptical, but you can't say that the fuse has no effect on the supply to the reservoir caps because of the very wide bandwidth of the current waveform. The question then becomes is the power supply well-enough designed to reject this HF noise.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

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I agree...
JohnnyR wrote:

"I actually am a scientist and engineer,"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh my THAT was the best joke I've heard all year.

Your a 'scientist' and 'engineer'? I agree, that is the best joke I've heard all year.

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directionality of fuses
John Atkinson wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

Fuses CAN'T affect the sound of an amp's outputs UNLESS.........UNLESS.........they blow and then you get NO sound. He He. I don't understand why you want an explanation when there isn't one other than it's all BS, marketing and the manufacturer relying upon the gullibility of the buyer.

 

I must admit that I am skeptical about the effect of these fuses, except that one of my review team, Bob Deutsch, who is hardly a flake, has found them to produce an audible improvement. So what might be going on?

A fuse is by definition a poor resistor, so even if it doesn't blow, it will still be cyclically heated. If it is between the secondary of the transformer and a full-wave rectifier, it will heat up and down 120 times each second, which, depending on its own thermal time constant, will produce even-order distortion in the signal feeding the reservoir capacitors. Shouldn't matter, given the low-pass filtering effect of those caps.

But the current passed by the fuse is not a full-wave rectified sinewave but a series of very short 120Hz current pulses, with a very wide bandwidth. So the thermal modulation of the fuse resistance will be doubling the bandwidth of that noise. Does this matter? I am still skeptical, but you can't say that the fuse has no effect on the supply to the reservoir caps because of the very wide bandwidth of the current waveform. The question then becomes is the power supply well-enough designed to reject this HF noise.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

I suspect that fuses are directional for the same reason all wire is directional. The metal crystal structure is distorted during the fabrication process, esp. when the wire is drawn. Which begs the question: if fuses and speaker cables and interconnects are directional, what of all the wiring in speakers, crosssovers and all the internal wiring in electronics, including capacitors, resistors, inductors and transformers? Even if there are some electronics manufacturers who do not dismiss wire directionality out of hand - there must be some, right? LOL - they probably just throw their hands up in the air.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

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Duhhhhhhhh
soulful.terrain wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

"I actually am a scientist and engineer,"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh my THAT was the best joke I've heard all year.

Your a 'scientist' and 'engineer'? I agree, that is the best joke I've heard all year.

Try reading it again Tweedle Dee......Mr Kait said that.

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Any Tests Coming Our Way?
John Atkinson wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:

Fuses CAN'T affect the sound of an amp's outputs UNLESS.........UNLESS.........they blow and then you get NO sound. He He. I don't understand why you want an explanation when there isn't one other than it's all BS, marketing and the manufacturer relying upon the gullibility of the buyer.

 

I must admit that I am skeptical about the effect of these fuses, except that one of my review team, Bob Deutsch, who is hardly a flake, has found them to produce an audible improvement. So what might be going on?

A fuse is by definition a poor resistor, so even if it doesn't blow, it will still be cyclically heated. If it is between the secondary of the transformer and a full-wave rectifier, it will heat up and down 120 times each second, which, depending on its own thermal time constant, will produce even-order distortion in the signal feeding the reservoir capacitors. Shouldn't matter, given the low-pass filtering effect of those caps.

But the current passed by the fuse is not a full-wave rectified sinewave but a series of very short 120Hz current pulses, with a very wide bandwidth. So the thermal modulation of the fuse resistance will be doubling the bandwidth of that noise. Does this matter? I am still skeptical, but you can't say that the fuse has no effect on the supply to the reservoir caps because of the very wide bandwidth of the current waveform. The question then becomes is the power supply well-enough designed to reject this HF noise.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

Should be measureable then.You have the equipment to do so. How about a test? Yes any well designed power supply should filter out the noise if it's there, otherwise someone is paying too much for a so-called high fidelity amp. Bob may have "heard" a difference but then again  no measurement so it could have been his imagination. We can debate till the cows come home but you have the ability to test your hypothesis.

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Thank you JA

I read that to mean, it's not probable - but given the placement in the circuit and how well regulated the power supply - possible.  Given that some amplifier designers don't believe that a well regulated power supply delivers current fast enough to keep up with the circuit and instead opt for a "quiet, under perfect circumstances" rout, it stands to reason that in certain equipment on certain grids in certain houses, they may make a real difference.  While in better situations, in different equipment, you'll likely hear nor measure no different.

Thank you Mr. Atkinson for a reasonable addition to the discussion.

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Ermmmmmmmmmm No
geoffkait wrote:

I suspect that fuses are directional for the same reason all wire is directional.

 Says who? Oh yes the people who sell "directional cables"  ......proof enough........case closed......we can all go home now.

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JA...I bought one on a whim

A couple of years ago I bought one of their basic fuses for my PrimaLuna amp. I swapped out the fuse and put on a CD I knew well. After ony a few seconds a noise in the piece, a 'thumping' that I could not identify in the past, became the sound of the player hitting the guitar with his finger...a clear change I could not explain except with the fuse change. That said, it was a very minor change.

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Re: Any Tests Coming Our Way?

JohnnyR wrote:

John Atkinson wrote:
The current passed by the fuse is not a full-wave rectified sinewave but a series of very short 120Hz current pulses, with a very wide bandwidth. So the thermal modulation of the fuse resistance will be doubling the bandwidth of that noise. Does this matter? I am still skeptical, but you can't say that the fuse has no effect on the supply to the reservoir caps because of the very wide bandwidth of the current waveform. The question then becomes is the power supply well-enough designed to reject this HF noise.

Should be measureable then.

Possibly

JohnnyR wrote:
You have the equipment to do so. How about a test?

I don't have the time, I am afraid, to pursue this at present. But all I wanted to to do was to show you that your view of the role of what a fuse does was too limited, that it is by definition a non-linear resistor and that may or may not have an effect on the amplifier's performance.

JohnnyR wrote:
Yes any well designed power supply should filter out the noise if it's there, otherwise someone is paying too much for a so-called high fidelity amp.

The problem is that noise with very wide spectrum is insidious. It leaks. My own experience suggests that you cannot take for granted that any particular power supply will always eliminate all high-frequency noise. The rejection will depend on the nature of the capacitors, the board layout, the grounding strategy, etc etc.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

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Why is it........

that you always have time to post on here BUT never the time to test what you are talking about? Anyone can give their opinion and theory and then just walk away from it I suppose. Convenient. Lets just ask May Belt next time.

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The demand for testing

JohnnyR wrote:

Why is it that you always have time to post on here BUT never the time to test what you are talking about?

Because it takes perhaps 90 seconds to post a correction to your misstatement, JohnnyR, but the test you are asking for is perhaps a week's work.

JohnnyR wrote:
Anyone can give their opinion and theory and then just walk away from it I suppose.

As I said, all I wanted to do, as with my response to the poster who recently accused Sam Tellig of not knowing electrical theory, was to highlight your own lack of understanding. To demonstrate that even with something as apparently simple as a fuse, that it cannot be taken for granted that it behaves as a perfect conductor.

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

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fuse audibility (in speaker circuit)

In response to both Johnny and JA, I have tried a fuse test in a SBT with a friend as the listener (previously posted, but quickly summarized here for convenience). Note that this was not power supply fuses, but speaker fuses.

My friend was listening and I did the swapping of fuse vs. wire. He, a musician and teacher, could identify and characterize the sound repeatably every time.

So the hypothesis might have been heating and cooling of the fuse, which I could not verify directly. Whatever the actual effect, it was clearly audible. Heating and cooling seems a reasonable, possible explanation, since the fuse has a thin conductor but the subsitituted wire was a larger diameter than what is in the fuse.

I might add that I too clearly and repeatably heard differences between fuse and wire, but decided to try the SBT above to see if someone else could hear it, which would confirm my impressions, and remove my 'expectation bias' as a possible explanation to what I had heard.

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So which way does the arrow

So which way does the arrow go on the audiophile fuse when used on the mains? Or when used on the amp output to the speaker? Maybe we should use two audiophile grade fuses in parallel, 1 each in opposite directions. Do different amp fuses sound different? Slow blow vs. Fast blow? Which one provides us with fast bass? I think I'll just replace all fuses with a straight wire with gain.  

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