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Soothsayerman
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Need some setup advice on music server

I've got a music server setup for listening to music in my office but I need to get it piped into the big rig down stairs.  I have been leaning toward getting a seperate outboard dac and pre-amp.  I was also looking at either the Logitech Touch or Transporter.

The question is, if I am going to be using an outboard DAC/Pre-amp anyway, does it make any sense at all to get the Logitech Transporter over the much cheaper Logitech touch?

The setup I was thinking about was this.

Music server PC wireless -> Logitech Touch -> Musical Fidelity M1 DAC -> Bryston 4B-ST

Will that work? Am I missing anything?  If anyone has any experience or other suggestions on perhaps another way to go, please chime in.  I am not settled on anything except the Bryston since I already own it.

Thanks!!

David

Kal Rubinson
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I would recommend the SB

I would recommend the SB Touch whether you use an external DAC or not.

Kal

Soothsayerman
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Thanks Kal, Appreciate the

Thanks Kal,

Appreciate the recommendation, sounds like the Touch would be a good thing to have regardless of whatever else so I'll start there.

Regards,

David

jazzfan
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Volume control?
Soothsayerman wrote:

Music server PC wireless -> Logitech Touch -> Musical Fidelity M1 DAC -> Bryston 4B-ST

Will that work? Am I missing anything?  If anyone has any experience or other suggestions on perhaps another way to go, please chime in.  I am not settled on anything except the Bryston since I already own it.

Thanks!!

David

Hi Dave,

It seems that you are missing something to control the volume in the analog domain. The Touch can be used to control the volume in the digital domain but this is really not recommended when used in a high end audio system. Reducing the volume in the digital domain will have an adverse effect on the sound quality and only by setting the Touch's volume at 100% can one be assured that the Touch is passing a bit perfect digital signal to one's external DAC. Do you own a preamp that you use with the Bryston? Or perhaps you might want to consider one of the DAC/pre amp units that are currently available.

Although I own a Transporter and several Touches I would not recommend getting the Transporter since the much less expensive Touch gives one 90 to 95% of the Transporter (the major differences being the better DAC in and balanced outputs on the Transporter)  and gives one the flexibility of adding an external DAC. And outboard DAC's are one of the hottest, if not the hottest, market segments in audio today.

Before pulling the trigger on a Touch I strongly suggest that you have a look at the Squeezebox forum just to get an idea of what kinds of issues other users are having with these wonderful little devices. http://forums.slimdevices.com/

dumbo
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....

Hello,

Another Logitech Transporter owner here and  personally I love mine to death, BUT, if I was going to do it all over again today I would be looking at the new Bryston Media player. I really think they hit the nail on the head with that device allowing for direct USB storage access from the device itself.

This is something I have wished the Transporter had all along as the squeezebox server software has always been a bit fussy in my experiences plus you have the additional variables to consider with streaming audio over a LAN/WLAN.

The only downfall I see with the M1 DAC in this configuration is its lack of volume control as already previously mentioned. Given the additional costs of a high quality Preamp you may be better served with a more purpose built DAC/Pre type device in place of the M1 DAC.

jazzfan
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Ouch, my thumb!
dumbo wrote:

Hello,

Another Logitech Transporter owner here and  personally I love mine to death, BUT, if I was going to do it all over again today I would be looking at the new Bryston Media player. I really think they hit the nail on the head with that device allowing for direct USB storage access from the device itself.

This is something I have wished the Transporter had all along as the squeezebox server software has always been a bit fussy in my experiences plus you have the additional variables to consider with streaming audio over a LAN/WLAN.

The only thing Bryston hit was their thumb. A non-streaming digital audio player with no internal storage. Hum seems like it is an awful lot like a disc based player only with the Bryston one gets to change USB sticks instead of discs. By the way, the OP did say that he wanted a streaming player. But hey you probably read my comments in the thread about the Bryston elsewhere on this forum. New thread same response: the Bryston is a $3,000 brick. It you really want the Bryston just wait a few months and pick one up used, I'm quite certain the used price will more closely resemble its true worth.

As for"additional variables to consider with streaming audio over a LAN/WLAN", what might those be? If one can set up a home network to stream video, such as Netflix or Youtube, that same network can easily stream audio. However I do agree that the Squeezebox server software can be "fussy" at times but any fussiness is more than outweighed by the various advantages of streaming audio, e.g. ease of access, search capabilities, multi-player set-ups, etc.

dumbo
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LOL

To the original poster, while not wireless, another option that is soon to be released is the Berkley Alpha USB which accepts asynchronous USB Input from your PC and then routes it via either AES/EBU or SPdif output to feed an outboard DAC. If you don't care about using AES/EBU there are much cheaper devices available for those wanting just SPDif output capabilities to feed an outboard DAC.

If your more interested in the convenience of streaming wirelessly then stick with one of the options already discussed but if you want the best SQ there are opinions from reputable sources which believe wireless isn't the way to go...(at least not as of 07/2011 that is)

Jazzfan--

I see your not a fan of the Bryston media player...that's cool. Personally I like it's ultra slimed down, purpose built approach to serving music and controlling your media library while providing an AES/EBU output to feed your DAC.

With the Logitech devices you get more bells and whistles that you don't have the option to live without if you aren't using them all. I run mine hard wired as I think it sounds better yet I still need to live with the Wireless antenna and its associated circuitry and noise. I also don't use its built-in DAC but again I need to live with it and its circuitry and noise contributions.

I was an early adopter of the Transporter and at the time of purchase it was one of the very few devices available to do what it does and also offer the connectivity options I needed in my system. As I said, if I were to do it again given the options available today I would go a different route. This is all just meant to be another point of view coming from someone who currently owns the Transporter.

jazzfan
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Transporter

When I first purchased the Transporter I was using the McCormack UDP-1 as my digital front end. The sound of the Transporter, even streaming wirelessly, was the equal of the McCormack and I've never looked back.

dumbo - What I'm a little confused about is why you seem to feel that the Touch comes with so many bells and whistles. Sure internet radio streams are of less than audiophile quality but so what, I just don't use that feature. When used with an iPad and the iPeng controller app one has one's entire music library at one's fingertips. Sure it's work to ensure that one's music library is properly and consistently tagged but it is also work to maintain a well organized CD or LP library. I still have several years of LP purchases that have not yet been properly filed away. On the other hand my digital music library is rescanned each night and there are never any items left laying about.

As for your complaints about the unused circuitry and noise I suggest that you pick up a Touch and try out the various mods suggested in this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742

I haven't tried any of them myself since my Touch is not in my main audio system and sounds just great without these mods. But for less than $300 you can give these mods a try. Who knows you may like the sound of modded Touch enough to sell your Transporter. There seems to be a quite a good market for used Transporters these days.

In any event I'm glad that you took my rant against the Bryston in stride.

Soothsayerman
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Interesting points made. 

Interesting points made.  I've ordered the Touch just to get started and after doing some research, I realize I am going to have to spend quite a bit of $$$$ to get a pre-amp that is better than the Proceed used just as a 2 channel pre, so for now, I am going to hang on to it.  I will get the Musical Fidelity M1DAC and see how that goes.  If at that point, the sound equals my Cal-Audio Labs CL-25 I will be ecstatic.  I somehow doubt it will, but hope springs eternal.

One big concern I have is how this big chain of wireless technology and dacs and computers is going to manage jitter.  I don't think it will very well quite honestly, but we'll see.  Audiophilia is a process and an adventure and I think this will be fun.

I really think PSAudio Perfect Wave DAC with the bridge is really the answer, and that is what I may end up but I am going to give this a go.  What's interesting about the PSAudio solution is that the whole file is loaded into the memory, the old clock signal is stripped, (IS2) then the whole shebang is re-clocked and sent out, no jitter.

I just dont want to spend the $$$ right now.

Thanks for the inputs!

David

Mahay
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Volume Control?

indecision

Mahay
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Volume Control Again??
jazzfan wrote:
Soothsayerman wrote:

Music server PC wireless -> Logitech Touch -> Musical Fidelity M1 DAC -> Bryston 4B-ST

Will that work? Am I missing anything?  If anyone has any experience or other suggestions on perhaps another way to go, please chime in.  I am not settled on anything except the Bryston since I already own it.

Thanks!!

David

Hi Dave,

It seems that you are missing something to control the volume in the analog domain. The Touch can be used to control the volume in the digital domain but this is really not recommended when used in a high end audio system. Reducing the volume in the digital domain will have an adverse effect on the sound quality and only by setting the Touch's volume at 100% can one be assured that the Touch is passing a bit perfect digital signal to one's external DAC. Do you own a preamp that you use with the Bryston? Or perhaps you might want to consider one of the DAC/pre amp units that are currently available.

Although I own a Transporter and several Touches I would not recommend getting the Transporter since the much less expensive Touch gives one 90 to 95% of the Transporter (the major differences being the better DAC in and balanced outputs on the Transporter)  and gives one the flexibility of adding an external DAC. And outboard DAC's are one of the hottest, if not the hottest, market segments in audio today.

Before pulling the trigger on a Touch I strongly suggest that you have a look at the Squeezebox forum just to get an idea of what kinds of issues other users are having with these wonderful little devices. http://forums.slimdevices.com/

Jazzfan--

I would like to link the Olive O4HD with an integrated amp. Since the O4HD has his own volume control, what do you think is the best way to do for maximum SQ without distortion? Do I need to turn the volume of the O4HD up to the max and control the volume of the speaker with the Integrated amp, or the opposite? Is there a way build up a "fixed line out" with the 4OHD or with any other player so the signal which goes to the amp will be perfect?indecision.

Since the O4HD doesn't have a "fixed line out", does it mean it's not an audiophile grade player?

Edit :

I found another interesting player on the market: Cocktail audio X10, it has a "fixed line out" but it a lot is cheaper than the O4HD. If I hook the X10 up with the same Integrated amp as I use for the 4OHD, do you think it will deliver better sound?

Soothsayerman
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Well the logitech squeezebox

Well the logitech squeezebox touch is pretty darn cool!  I it setup wirelessly and spdif digital out into the Proceed AVPS.  It sould actually better than I thought it would which is great but it cannot touch my cal audio cd player.

Convenience corrupts, absolute convenience corrupts absolutely.  Having all my CDs at my finger tips has really gotten me back in touch with a lot of my music that I had not listened to in a long long time.  I also find myself downloading more hi rez music now than ever!  Funny thing is that I can only play hi rez files in my office through the server because it has a 96/24 spdif out card.  But I dont care.  Having my whole collection setup as a server just makes things more accessible and easier to deal with.   Now if I can just get the quality improved with the DAC and perhaps later a different pre-amp.  It's all good. 

Reference Recordings (24 bit / 176.4 kHz WAV) • Files distributed on DVD

HD Tracks (24 bit at 88.2 and 96 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

Gimell (24 bit / 96kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

MA Recordings (96kHz and 176.4 kHz WAV) • Files distributed on DVD

Chesky Records (24 bit / 176.4 kHz WAV) • Files distributed on DVD

2L (24 bit at 96kHz and 192 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

Society of Sound (24 bit 48 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via download by subscription

Boston Symphony Orchestra (24 bit 88.2 kHz AIFF) • Files distributed via download by subscription

Linn Records (24 bit 48 kHz to 192 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

NAIM label ((24 bit 44.1 kHz to 96 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

The classical shop.net (24 bit 96 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

Aix Records (24 bit 96 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

Bravura Records (Holiday gift of 24 bit music files - free downloads!)

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com  (24 bit 96 kHz FLAC) • Files distributed via internet download

 

I am sure  there are tons of others... Just a few places I go.

 

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