Hi Audiofledgling.

You are where I was about a year ago. Overthinking and confused. Actually, I might still be there, but I've taken the plunge on the first parts of my system. Be warned that people here might try to push you into other mediums (vinyl, CD...), and others might try to get you to spend over your budget. This is only because we all love music, and we all have a habit of wanting others to experience exactly what we do. Having said that, I'm now going to impose my own beliefs on you...

If I was buying a system with the idea of only playing digital, I would be looking at the following: Speakers, Amplifier, DAC, cables and interconnects. I would NOT be looking to transmit the audio over HDMI. Transmit the video over HDMI, but leave the audio to optical or rca. Most computers have an optical out, and this would be preferred. If anyone else can add to this, please do.

Speakers: I've heard Paradigm, and I quite like them. PSB would be my own preference for small affordable speakers, but that's just me. Just don't buy anything from Best Buy. Go to local stores and ask to hear different speakers through equipment comparable to what you think you will have at home. In other words, don't let them hook up $500 of speakers to $24000 worth of amp and cables, because they all like doing this.

Amplifier: Tougher. It would be easier (in terms of suggestions) if you were only looking for 2 channel audio. I might leave this up to others to suggest, as I don't know much about receivers.

DAC: A lot of my reading went into this. If you're unsure about what this is and why you might want one, I'll try to explain, and maybe someone else here can correct me if my analogy isn't 100%. Everything digital (ie, not vinyl or tape) needs to undergo a conversion from digital to analog before your ears can hear it. Sound is analogue, as we are incapable of hearing 1's and 0's. This means that your cell phone, computer, cd player, dvd player, tv, and so on all have a built in DAC (Digital Analog Converter). If I hook up my PS3 to an external DAC, for example, the PS3 will continue to spin the disc, read the information, and do everything else that it would normally do. BUT, the external DAC will take over that one duty of Digital to Analog conversion from the PS3, and do it much much better. Computers generally have not the nicest DACs built in, and I would suggest that getting an outboard DAC is a necessity for a computer based system. I went with the Cambridge Audio DacMagic for $449, and $150 worth of cables from Cardas. You could spend much more or a bit less. It changed my computer listening experience immensely. More stereo separation, clarity, more and tighter bass, and a far better sense of flow and groove. I didn't think my roommate would notice, as he is not an audiophile, but when he came home that night, he ended up listening to the system for hours, amazed at the change. If your DAC will be far away from the source computer, consider something like the Arcam RDac, that transmits wirelessly. Lots to read up on here, so I hope this helps and doesn't make it worse.

Cables and Interconnects: They make a bigger difference than I initially wanted to believe. Imagine buying a sports car and putting regular gas into it. It'll still be fun, but there is probably more you can get out of it. Set aside a few hundred if you can for some cables. Talk to people in stores about this, and see if they'll let you take home 2 competing cable lines to compare for yourself.

Finally, if your system gets to a certain level of quality, which I suspect it will before you're done, you will start to notice a difference in the quality of the music you play through it. MP3s will start to sound cheap, like a mix tape that has been copied one too many times. Consider using (at least when possible) FLAC or WAV files, which are the equivalent in quality to what you would find if you bought the cd in a store, or at the very least, the best 320 mp3s you can find.

Hope this helps more than it confuses! Now lets see if others can offer some suggestions as well.

Dave

Out of an audio system. If that's your source material, I wouldn't spend the extra money for audiophile type of electronics. In this case, Best Buy is probably the place to go and look for the features you are needing in the electronics.

I agree, if you are not streaming lossless digital music you don't need very good electronics, certainly not anything closely regarded as audiophile equipment. Mp3s are crap, so why play crap on stuff which will just better bring out the crapiness? Sorry, I dont mean to sound condescending, but even "budget audiophile" is a waste with mp3s as your main source. Mp3 256 or 320 kbs vs. CD 1,411.2 kbs means your are going to notice the degradation in sound of the mp3 on good equipment.

Catch22 wrote:

Out of an audio system. If that's your source material, I wouldn't spend the extra money for audiophile type of electronics. In this case, Best Buy is probably the place to go and look for the features you are needing in the electronics.

Agreed...MP3 can only sound, lets be generous...adequate. The gear you are listing merits more than MP3...Of course, it does allow you to grow into good sound.

At the end of the day, once you have your system up and running, I suppose you can just listen to mp3s vs higher resolution files and decide for yourself. It doesn't really change your plan for now, as the system you buy will be able to play both anyways.

If even I, hearing impaired that I am, can tell the difference between a 128 kbs mp3 and 320kps mp3 http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/mp3-sound-quality-test-128-320/ then certainly I can say with confidence that a 320 kps mp3 is noticably degraded compared to CD quality 1,411.2 kps to my ears. I would think that a younger person with better hearing would resolve an even greater difference.

But moving forward. If your priority is music I personally would abandon any AV/home theater equipment and go with a two-channel system. Better for most music (you didn't specify multichannel SACD or DVD-A) and still enjoyable for movies.

Please audition your options for loudspeakers, only your ears can make the correct choice after being given some options by others. Also, for a music system I would suggest a sealed subwoofer, preferably servo-controlled. A good budget subwoofer is the Emotiva Ultra Sub 12; try it and if it does not satisfy return it within 30 days for your money back.

is a hell of a reality check for me in too many ways to mention, so I will mention one. When it is her turn to cook dinner I am often in the next room separated by an open hallway. She often comments on what I am listening to. When I was checking out the differences between 320 and 128 mp3s she asked "What are you doing in there? Whatever it is, it goes from bad to worse." She has also heard the difference between cd and 24/96 vinyl rips from the other room without being asked.

She is no audiophile, just a patient music lover married to one. But, if someone cannot tell the difference between an mp3 and higher resolution music, good for them! Think of the money they will save!

Me, I have DSOTM on at least 5 different pressings, three of them vinyl. They all sound different, different enough that I have not yet been able to sell some off!

Trey

Audiofledgling wrote:

That said, :) I have a friend who is a sound engineer with a home setup that would make even the most seasoned audiophile drool. He claims that a quality MP3 played on the right equipment is pretty hard to distingush from CDs these days (not the case 10 years ago). He claims he can tell CD from MP3 @ 320 when he is doing critical listening, mostly because he knows what to listen for but he says that even he has failed a few blind listening tests and would be hard pressed to tell MP3 from CD at a dinner party, etc.

I do not want to disagree with your friend but I can hear a significant difference in the files even on my modest system, heck, I can hear the difference between MP3 and WAV files on my iPOD with decent cans.

The gear you listed in your initial post is good enough to let you appreciate better source material in the future. In the case of my post, I was simply trying to note that the money expended gives you room to grow, and that MP3 is about the worst source file out there...

My recommendation, do not buy a system optimized to MP3 sound as it will limit your ability to later hear improvements when you do eventually move on to better source material.

1) I'd seriously consider the PSB Image B25 in closeout for $320/pair. http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1204psb
2) If you are going with a 2.1 system you won't really need an AV receiver. An NAD C326BEE should be on your list.
3) The Emotiva Ultra Sub 10 is likely to be better for music than the HSU STF-2 and is $329 on sale right now with a 30 day money back guarantee.
4) If your computer has an optical digital output you might want to get a good DAC.

Given your understandable frugality and extensive mp3 material already is to concentrate on spending the money on speakers. I'm a big fan of PSB speakers for bang for you buck and versatility with lesser electronics and poor recordings. The very real truth about most pop and rock music is that it is poorly recorded in the first place and there's nothing you can do about it except choose speakers that won't make your ears bleed. That's where PSB finds a nice compromise in being able to present genuine goodness while not trying to be the most revealing speaker intended for only high quality recordings.

They aren't the only speaker that will fit the bill and even the reviewers tend to split down the middle as to whether Paradigm or PSB offers the better sound for the money. They are more alike than they are different and both are Canadian companies that make use of the government sponsored anachoic testing facilities.

If you are going to use a subwoofer, both companies offer those as well and at prices that correspond with their incremental offerings in their speaker lines.

The no brainer selection for electronics would be the Outlaw Audio RR-2150 receiver. It's reasonably priced and full of modern features that accomodate today's digital formats. You'll want to make sure that it has your basic needs, but it's certainly versatile enough to get you off and running with an upgrade path full of possibilities should you desire.

Finally, if you don't mind buying used gear and really want to stretch your dollars and take on the risk of no warranty and all that, Audiogon is the site to check out.

Be honest with yourself before spending a dime and have an idea of what the finished system will consist of and how much you are willing to spend and make it happen. All at once or as funds permit...have a plan before you spend.

Do yourself a favor and get a stereo amp with built in DAC. Look for Peachtree Decco on Audiogon or even direct from the Peachtree website as a refurb ($499). I paired my Decco with PSB Image B25s ($329) and it sounded great. You really only need a sub (Decco has line outs)if you listen to a lot of rap or like a lot of bass. I recomend liseneding to the B25s before you buy a sub. That said, I have heard an Emotiva 12 and was blown away with how much base came from the relativly small sub. Finally, get a Squeezebox ($299) to transmit your files wirelessly from computer to stereo or one of the USB DACs reiewed on this site.

I had this setup for about 2 years and really liked it a lot. I got a ton of compliments from casual listenrs and a few "audiphiles" were very surprised how good it sounded for about a grand.