Music? Or Sound? JVS Elaborates

When I reread my February “As We See It,” Music? Or Sound?, my first thoughts about a piece I had written a while ago were: (1) I wish I’d devoted less space to telling the story and more to expanding upon my thesis; and (2) I’m afraid that my motivation will be misconstrued. Indeed, the flurry of furious comments makes clear that I failed to make the best case for my argument.

I regret that, to some, I came off as arrogant or condescending. It’s not that I have a golden ear; rather, I’ve had sufficient experience with the particular performers and compositions in the recordings used at the demo to have developed a set of expectations as to how those recordings should sound. The reason why others at our listening sessions weren’t immediately “able” to hear the imbalances I heard is that I had the advantage of hearing the recordings in widely varying contexts over years of blogging audio shows.

People tend to trust reviewers who have devoted considerable time to amassing a storehouse of listening experiences that enable them to make valuable critical calls about equipment and recordings. It’s not that these reviewers necessarily have superior judgment; it’s rather that they’ve established standards by which to evaluate the material at hand. They have learned how to both focus on specific elements, and to sit back and take in the big picture. IMHO, those reviewers who are equipped to assess how the entire listening experience makes them feel have an obligation to educated readers and elevate discourse by discussing how equipment can present music in ways that transcend the sum total of its parts.—Jason Victor Serinus

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Ariel Bitran's picture
Can you further define

what you mean by "religion" of audio?

MVBC's picture
How about worship of the

How about worship of the Lamm...wink

Ariel Bitran's picture
thanks for reading

wink

ChrisS's picture
Heavenly Music vs Devil in the Details?

simplecl's picture
an example may help

     It’s difficult to explain what I mean by “religion” because the word has so many personal interpretations.  Instead of an explanation, I’ll offer this short story as an example.
     I belong to an audio club and last year we were considering the purchase of a new CD player.  The members were given an opportunity to A/B test the new player so we could compare it to the old one.  Two CDs were queued and began playing simultaneously.  We listened while the source was switched from A to B via the preamp.  The music would play for about 20-30 seconds on each unit, and then the A/B switch would occur.
     At the end of the test, there was little debate that the new unit sounded better.  Terms such as “more air”, “better dynamics”, and “tighter bass” filled the room and almost everyone agreed.  A few of us were puzzled.
    After about 10 minutes of discussion, someone noticed that the preamp used for the A/B test was not connected into the playback circuit.  The entire test was conducted while listening to A.  We had a good laugh, and a few eyes rolled.
The system was corrected, the A/B test reran, and everyone could hear the difference during round two.  The new player did sound better than the much older player.
     Of course, the differences heard during round one can easily be explained.  Members believed the newer, more expensive player would sound better.  They were strongly influenced by their belief that it should.  They were also influenced by the belief of other members.  Hopefully readers understand the connection I’m trying to make between words such as “belief” and “religion”.  Admittedly, I may be using the terms loosely and don’t mean to offend anyone.

ChrisS's picture
Great story!

A good, fun lesson!

Joe8423's picture
you'd think people would want to know if they're fooling

themselves but they don't.  I like being right so the thought that I might be imagining things and making a bunch of false claims based on my imaginings upsets me.  An awful lot of folks just don't mind being wrong.  It's creepy.

Ariel Bitran's picture
A Wonderful Perspective

on what you meant by "religion" in hi-fi

in a way, it sticks it to both of the quarreling camp

i think blind faith in either direction (subjective/objective) is a bad call

ChrisS's picture
Enjoying the experience and learning!

And the lesson here is they heard what they believed, but they weren't creeped out about it!

wrytoast's picture
Whine. (Or wine.)

I subscribe to the same philosophy when it comes to wine and stereo equipment. There's no such thing as good and bad-- there's what you like, and what you don't like. If you're lucky enough to like Yellow Tail or mp3s, you're very lucky, because they're both inexpensive and you can get them everywhere. 

Most people, when tested blind, can't even tell red wine from white wine. For those people to spend a ton of money on a bottle is ok-- because it's their money. If it gives them pleasure to consume something simply because it's expensive, well, then, good for them. 

Perhaps sadly, I am not one of those people.

ChrisS's picture
Wow factor

The fun is when those people taste a really nice Bordeaux or hear a well set-up vinyl system....and they don't have to be stratospherically expensive!

Joe8423's picture
would it bother you

if someone took some yellowtail, added some cheap ingredients to make it taste like expensive wine and then sold it to you for $50/bottle?  This is what bothers me.  In a world where there are so many people who don't mind being scammed there are going to be a lot of scammers.  If I'm going to spend a lot of money on something there had better be a reason for it other than that the seller likes money. 

I've never spent significant money on cables.  My speaker cables are only 3 feet long and I paid about $150 I think.  They're audioquest of some kind.  My interconnects are the real heresy, I bought some balanced microphone cables at Guitar Center.  They were among the more expensive ones, about $100 but not a lot by any stretch.  My system isn't cheap, list price is almost 30k and none of it is very old.  I fooled around with cables a little and the differences ranged from tiny to inaudible.  I've also got a ton of bass traps in a dedicated room.  Room treatments make a huge difference.  Speakers make a huge difference.  Amps make a significant difference but not near as big as speakers.  The source and preamp make a difference but in my experience not a huge one.  I haven't played a whole lot there so I may change my mind when I upgrade those.  Wires are just so far down the line of things that matter it's hard for me to understand why they're talked about so much. 

ChrisS's picture
Trust your gut and your ears!

Caveat emptor! Trust your gut... If you feel like you're being scammed, whether it's a used car, the latest health product or a stereo component that fell off a truck,  then back away as fast as possible.

If those cables don't make a signiifcant difference, don't buy. That doesn't mean other interconnects won't make a difference.

Even though I was told that Linn amps and other Linn components don't respond to changes in wiring, I found the mid-priced WireWorld Aurora power cords to make the biggest difference in the way my system played music, not the entry-level Stratus nor the higher-priced Electra.

If you already have good interconnects, fair enough. However, if you're able to try out different cables, whether by borrowing them or you're able to return them with a full refund, then see if there's anything within your means that makes a difference that you like. Trust your ears.

That's what the folks at Stereophile and other good audiophiles like them try to teach us.

 

P.S. You say your room has a ton of treatment- it's quite possible that you won't hear any or very little difference with changes in any kind of wiring because of the traps.

Joe8423's picture
fine, I'll bite

why would room treatments make it hard to hear differences between wires?

ChrisS's picture
"Sound of Music"

Probably absorbing the frequencies of the sounds that change the most when swapping wires.

If your traps are not permanently attached, take them out, then do your wire comparison.

Joe8423's picture
That is just wrong

The more absorption you have the less you hear the room.  That makes it easier to hear differences in the sound coming directly from the speakers.  If I were only absorbing high frequencies and the lows were overpowering it could make sense but I don't have that situation.  I have a real time analyzer and measurement mic that I used to measure the response down here and I don't have a rising bass problem. 

bob.saccamanno's picture
The death of Audio

This article typifies the problems with the "high-end" and why we are turning away so many folk. I've been in the industry for over 30 years, and I have never heard any well designed cable sound any different from one another.

Sorry, but this articale took the cake. I can perfectly understand why the vast majority are repulsed by the high-end, and why our industry is self imploding.

Wake up people.

teegood64's picture
True or False..

When I first got my DAC/CD Player I only had a very rudimentary red/white twin RCA cable that was quite thin and was probably nickel plated. When I switched it out for a $20 gold plated Rocketfish / Best Buy cable a couple days later, I could hear a fair bit of difference in the quality of the music. 

My wife, who likes to listen to music too, never knew I made the cable change and as I was sitting next to her ruminating adjectives till I came up with, "lush". Yes, more, "lush sounding", I glanced at her and she said, "Could you turn it down!!?".

Listening is a complex human issue. TRUE OR FALSE??

 

Doctor Fine's picture
True Story

 A few years back I took my 40 years of recording room/high end sales experience over to the local Fort Lauderdale Folk Music Club.  They had a PA system which consisted of an ancient Peavey powered mixer and two Yamaha woofers in ported boxes. 

You couldn't heard a thing except "XmPtFFFSHtfMMMAMMM."  What do you EXPECT two WOOFERS would do to vocals and guitars???

So I volunteered to straighten the mess out and installed JBLs I had laying around, cleaned up the wiring and replaced the reberb in the old mixer with a better Lexicon unit.  Voila!  Clear sound that was sweet and musical!

A traveling headliner from New York City was the star of the show the first night I ran the new board.  He stopped in the middle of his performance. 

"Whoever fixed this room's sound system is a genius and it is MUCH appreciated," he commented.  "Last time I was here it was like singing through dirty socks--THIS sounds magical!!!"

The next week the Club fired me and made me replace all the old original setup with the two woofers and the distorted reverb.

"We AMATEURS suddenly sound like crap through your new setup," they complained.  "Before we could show up wearing hippie clothes and perform a set and everybody would clap like crazy.  Now we sound terrible and nobody claps anymore."

I left while mumbling to myself "MAYBE the reason you sound like crap is that you sound like crap!."

True story.

The moral of this is to not take too seriously ANYTHING which the so-called die hard amateurs think about our discipline.  Perhaps they LIKE sound that sounds like crap!

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