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October 23, 2016 - 1:13pm
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music hall mmf 7.1 || rega rp6 || well tempered amadeus mk2
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I have had the MMF-7 for several years and love it. I have a Benz Micro Ace cartridge and a Musical Fidelity phono preamp. The isolated motor of the MMF-7 is a very desirable feature.
I have the 7.1, but it seems the 7.3 has some upgrades, which may be desirable. needle doctor has it for $1395.
thanks for the thoughts. just saw the 7.3 upgrade, will read up on it a bit more. one concern i have with the rp6 is that the planar 3 just came out with new rp330 tonearm, upgrade from the rp303 that's on the rp6 currently...if they update rp6 with the new arm, that might be a strong selling point... really like the idea of the well-tempered, biggest problem right now is that i can't find anywhere that stocks it to take a look!
I own an RP3 with an Exact2 which is the standard cartridge on the RP6. It is a spectacular table. I don't have the external PSU and Roy Gandy will tell you that the PSU is less valuable if the power in your house is very good. It is also redundancy if you have a voltage regulator. The RP6 also has an upgraded platter and aluminum vs plastic sub-platter and I believe it may have a better belt.
Regarding sound, the Exact2 cartridge delivers precise, well defined bass. Rega is know for have an extraordinary mid bass and mid range with slightly rolled off highs. It is a spectacular sounding table for jazz and classical and I love it for rock and metal music. I don't listen to hip hop but based on reviews, it will underperform vs the Music Hall.
Secondarily, the Music Hall has an AC Motor while the Rega has a DC motor. The external PSU helps resolve this, but the Music Hall is less influenced but fluctuations in power. Commsysman I am sure can do a better job of explaining the technical advantage of an AC motor and everything I have read shows it is technically superior.
If you want the new tonearm you could consider getting the new Planar 3 with an Exact2 instead of the standard Elys2. The major difference is in bass clarity. The Exact2 is in a completely different league. If you have a voltage regulator, don't bother getting the PSU.
$945 for the table, $599 for the Exact2 cartridge. $59 for the upgraded belt. You wouldn't have the aluminum sub platter or the upgraded platter but you would have the new tonearm. With the PSU, it would basically be the same price. if you opt against the PSU, you might be able to get the dealer to order those parts.
I have no POV on the well-tempered and could not know less about it.
A Synchronous AC motor will run with no variations in speed, since the speed depends only on the 60Hz frequency of the power, which is maintained within .001 % by the power company in most countries. The only downside of this is that you will have to buy a 50Hz motor from the manufacturer if you move to a country that has 50Hz power.
The speed of a DC motor is dependent on the DC voltage, which must be accurately regulated, or you must have some way of adjusting it to the precise value desired. This can be problematical unless you have a well-regulated power supply, which is the way to go. Some companies charge ridiculous prices for one, which is absurd since they only cost 20 or 30 dollars to make.
The external PSU is $399. It is very expensive to accomplish what the Music Hall does with the AC motor. As a Rega owner, I would love to tell you it is superior but this is a clear benefit from both Music Hall and incidentally, VPI which is not in your current considered set.
I can certainly see where AC has its benefits. I may move to Japan in a year or two, where the east half of the country has 50hz, but that might not be worth worrying about currently. @bierfeldt, I have taken a look at the VPI Voyager and Scout Jr, haven't totally ruled them out -- feel free to convince me! Local dealer has both the new Planar3 and RP6, might see if I can listen to the planar3 with the Exact2 cartridge as you mention.
Oh, and if it makes a difference, I listen to predominantly jazz and classical, with a smattering of oldies, japanese, electronic/ambient, and other random stuff mixed in -- i.e. not tons of rock and hip hop.
I really like and have nothing bad to say about Rega, Clearaudio (DC motors), Music Hall and VPI (AC Motors) and they compete very directly. All four make great products. In many ways I feel like Music Hall and Rega are the best values but in the end, if you pick any one of them and a really good cartridge (Rega Exact2, Ortofon 2M Black, Benz Micro Gold, Dynavector 10x5, Sumiko Bluepoint, etc...) you are going to have a great sounding table. Its like choosing between BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Audi. Each one has its own feel and individuals may feel strongly about one or the other, but in the end they are all darn nice cars and most people would be very happy with any one of them.
I don't feel particularly compelled to sell you on any one of these tables because I think all of them are great.
I like the Rega for Jazz and Classical and the Exact2 is very well suited to that style of music. It has the most colored sound but that is more pronounced on the Elys2 cartridge rather than the Exact2. If you can, listen to So What of off Miles Davis's Kind of Blue, the opening bass notes will sound a little muddy on the Elys2 and you will hear them tighten up on the Exact2.
I feel like Clearaudio is the most precise. The Concept is a superb table and the base MM Concept cartridge is great for the money. Probably is going to offer the most refined detail for classical but I think loses a little something vs the Rega on jazz. I also feel like the Clearaudio is the least forgiving and most likely to highlight issues with vinyl though the right phono stage can help with that.
Music Hall and VPI have to me the sort of Goldilocks sound. Not as colored as the Rega, not quite as precise as the Clearaudio's. Cartridge choice really matters with them and if you were to pick the Music Hall or VPI and pair it with something like the Dynavetor 10x5 (MC) or the Ortofon 2M Black (MM), I think it would sound pretty spectacular. The only warning on that 2M Black is that it so precise, a very good phono stage is required to get the most out of it.
Do you want a MM or MC cartridge and what is your phono stage? That can have a big impact.
Re: MM/MC for phono stage, not 100% set on one or the other yet. Currently have a Kyocera 651, which I believe is limited to MM (though the 661 was decent MM/MC? hard to track down info on those old dogs...)
Was looking at the parasound halo integrated at the local hifi shop, which has the nice option to switch mm/mc easily. From my (limited) current understanding of things, MC is my conceptual preference, while MM is my wallet preference, so trying to stay flexible currently.
Was auditioning the VPI Scout with a sumiko mm through rouge sphinx -- seemed very well built, can't say I was exactly falling in love with it though (sonically + aesthetically). same shop is going to bring over a clearaudio concept to audition so I'll be able to take a look at that as well.
I'll likely be able to audition the RP6 with an Exact2 this week as well from a separate shop, fingers crossed.
No well-tempered anywhere to be found, but I did hear at aforementioned shop that one of the owners has one, CAN be amazing, but very touchy and need all the details just-so to really bring it to life. Given the difficulty of tracking one down too, think I might have to rule this one out for now.
Still trying to track down an MMF-7.3 to audition...
Just looked into it as well, the MMF-7.3 swaps out the AC motor of the 7.1 for a DC! So looks like if I wanted to go AC, VPI is the last of the mohicans...
I suggest that you stay away from moving-coil cartridges. They are very finicky, and their output voltage is SO low that there can often be difficult-to-resolve hum and noise issues. They also are often unreliable, and once they fail that is it; not normally repairable.
The Musical Fidelity V90 phono stage is excellent, and less than $200.
I think that the Parasound Integrated is not very good-sounding, and would suggest that you look at the Music Hall 15.3 instead, or the Musical Fidelity M3si. In general, phono stages that are built-in to an amp are not the best.
Depending on your budget for the phono stage I would look at three units.
The Vincent Audio Pho 8 is what I currently have paired with my RP3 and Exact2. It is a spectacular combo and the Pho 8 is a stupidly good value at $299. The noise filter on this is fabulous yet you don't seem to lose any detail and nuance in the vinyl.
At $750, the Musical Surrounding Phonomena II+ is exceptional and would be an outstanding compliment to any system. My dealer strongly recommended it to go with any Clearaudio table as it does a great job of resolving ultra fine detail.
At $999 the Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL is fully balanced and a great value. You will not get a nicer sounding solid state phono stage until you are in the $2400-$3250 range. When I finally upgrade to an RP8 or a VPI Classic, this is what I think I will be going with.
I believe all three of these would be superior to the internal phono stages on the integrated amps you are talking about. I personally like the Rogue Sphinx unit a lot and have a higher end class D power amp from them called the Hydra. But that is a matter of personal taste. One thing to note about the Rogue, you can roll in different tubes to tweak the sound a bit which can be interesting.