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tcdn97he
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music hall mmf-5 turntable

Just bought a Music Hall MMF-5 and upon bringing it out of the box, I noticed the upper plinth, with its black lacquer finish, has some faint, swirly scratches, like someone wiped it down on the way out of the factory.

Am I being too picky here? I take exceptional care of all my stuff, to the degree that people are amazed at the condition of stuff I bought 25 years ago. Yes, I know it's about how it sounds more than how it looks, but I expect gear to look pristine right out of the box. Should I bring this to the attention to the vendor? Bought it from a very reputable, brick-and-mortar store in town. Am I being unreasonable, or is this the norm with this particular finish?

59mga
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Contact Music Hall (www.musichallaudio.com)...they are most interested in customer satisfaction and definitely want to hear if you're not.

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

No, the marred finish you describe is certainly not the norm for Roy Hall's products. Take it back. You're not being too picky.

This may be a good way to test just how reliable your dealer is. If he doesn't replace it immediately without any hesitation, contact Hall direct. I'm sure he'll take care of it properly.

Like you, I take care of things. My MMF-7 looks (and sounds) like the day I unpacked it.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Thanks for the link! I left a voice message for Roy.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Thanks, Clay. I'm going to take it back tomorrow.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Roy got right back to me today, and said that the high-gloss finish always has some very fine marks/lines, especially in certain lighting. He said it was the nature of the beast. He suggested applying a good furniture polish to buff it. I guess as long as he says not to worry about it, I'm going to stop worrying and set it up.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Well, I took the 'table out of the box again to set it up, looked at it and am back to my original assessment. There are A LOT of scratches. All over - "halos". I'm not even going to try and buff them out per Roy's directions. Right back in the box and back to the store to let them look it over. If this is the norm, as Roy maintains, then I guess I don't want this finish. If it's this scratched up now, imagine trying to clean it without scratching it further. Ah, well. My analog listening enjoyment will have to wait a bit longer.

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

I'm more than a little surprized and disapponted at Roy's reaction. If he sticks with the notion that the buyer of new goods has to buff the finish to make the item presentable, the ProJect and Rega people will have reasons to smile. Beyond that, his statement certainly doesn't apply to my turntable. Of course things at the factory may have been more shipshape when mine was turned out.

Let us know how your local dealer reacts to your return.

59mga
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable


Quote:
I'm more than a little surprized and disapponted at Roy's reaction.

Yes, I agree with Clay. Last year, prior to purchasing the Music Hall 25.2 system, I had numerous correspondents with Roy and he was always most gracious and helpful. As a matter of fact, a few months after buying the system I recieved, in the mail, three upgraded power cords, for the MH gear I just purchased...if Roy hadn't sent them I wouldn't have known there had been a change.

When spending that amount of money on a piece of equipment you shouldn't have to do any polishing. I'd be sure to return it to the dealer.

Keep us posted.

Elk
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Without being able to see the piece it is hard to know whether there is a significant problem or whether it is normal. Of course, if if the buyer is dissatisfied there is a problem to address in any event.

However, most high gloss finishes do exhibit halos and exceedingly small scratches upon close scrutiny. For example, every modern production car has orange peel and fine spider web marks in the paint from the factory (except for Ferraris and other hand finished autos). This is also true of high gloss piano finishes - there are flaws.

Most people do not notice these flaws but can see them if they are pointed out and there is the right type of lighting. Looking at the reflection of a single incandescent bulb in the finish can reveal a lot.

Roy is right that a good quality polish or wax can make these "normal" flaws almost invisible. But my guess is that the product in question has bigger problems than this. A quick comparison between the unit and a new out of the box unit at the dealer should resolve the question.

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

With all due respect, Elk, despite your attempt at being helpful and your information regarding high gloss finishes in general, I think you made the significant point when you said, "...if the buyer is dissatisfied there is a problem to address in any event."

Beyond that, I'd suggest that if the appearance of the product can be greatly improved by waxing and buffing it behooves the seller to take those steps before distribution.

My guess is that Roy's current attitude stems from some problems he is facing, and my prediction is that this attitude will make them worse.

My TT was shipped with a pair of white cotton gloves and detailed set-up instructions. The second step in the setup instructions (following only the clearing of a level working space) was, "Remove and put on white cotton gloves (in large plastic bag). The Care and Maintainance section of the manual read, regarding Plinths, "A damp cloth or soft duster is ideal for cleaning the plinths: polish, particularly wax-based, can be hard to remove."

The finish of the plinths certainly seemed to be something Roy took seriously when the manual was written. Clearly the gloves were not needed for mounting the platter and belt or checking cart alignment. To go from that to "..that's normal" seems to me to be a change of policy/attitude in a direction which won't enhance future sales.

I really am happy with my turntable, but if I hadn't bought it yet, this situation would lead me to one of the very excellent competitors out there today. Face it, the choices in the $500-$2000 price range are too numerous for any manufacturer/distributor to be cavalier about customer satisfaction.

Elk
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

We are in complete agreement. The product should be delivered to the customer in perfect condition and at its best. However, it's impossible for us to determine whether it was without seeing the product.

I also don't want to judge either Roy or any of his customers from this little snippet; we don't know what the entire conversation was and how each presented themselves.

Isn't it fun to get gloves, special neat tools or similar in the box?

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

You're right, gloves, special tools, etc. are fun and a real plus in the selling job. After the sale of the product is closed, they add luster to the seller.

You're also right that I tend to be judgmental. I'm so old that I see it as an obligation. We used to call it common sense, but I realize it is out of fashion now, as is the notion that the customer is always right.

Elk
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Agreed. The only problem with common sense is that it is not all that common, but rather rare.

Even when the customer is wrong (not saying he is in this case) he should be treated as if he is right while resolving the issue.

I tend toward the hyper-picky. I'm constantly reminding myself that perfect is rarely obtainable. Yet, I have had a lot of wonderful experiences with audio equipment, dealers and enthusiasts. This hobby attracts a lot of talented, motivated, honest people; a great bunch.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Took the MMF5 back to the store. We looked at it under the store's fluorescent lights. Could not see any scratches. Directly under track lighting, we all could see the scratches. Store's 'table the same thing.

So, taking into account what Roy said, what Elk said (about high-gloss finishes) and after looking at it under different lighting, I've decided to keep it.

Thanks all for taking the time to respond. It really helped me figure out what to do!

Elk
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

I'm really delighted to learn both that you are happy and that Music Hall has not slipped in quality or in customer service.

Isn't it odd how the lighting has to be just right to see the little flaws?

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Sounds like a happy ending. I really like happy endings. Now that you've settled the appearance questions to your satisfaction, you can get down to the listening. My guess is that will go well. Please keep us posted.

tcdn97he
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

I really want to emphasize how quickly Roy got back to me and how forthcoming he was in regard to the scratches. He invited me to call him back if there were any further concerns. Very happy with that. My local dealer was also eager to make sure I walked out of there content. I am a picky guy when it comes to these things, but I also want to make sure I'm not being unresonably so. Thanks again for the support!

ohfourohnine
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

You're happy, and that's what matters. I've always found Roy to be forthright too - but remember that he is Scottish. The points that troubled me as your story unfolded are unimportant. Now I'll suggest that you scrap the felt turntable mat which was supplied with your table and replace it with the Ringmat Anniversary Edition (also one of Roy's products) - a little pricey, but worth it. Happy Listening.

59mga
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable


Quote:
I really want to emphasize how quickly Roy got back to me and how forthcoming he was in regard to the scratches.

This is one reason why I like dealing with Roy.


Quote:
My local dealer was also eager to make sure I walked out of there content. I am a picky guy ...

My Music Hall dealer is, also, very customer oriented. Don't apologize for being "picky"...we all want the best. Isn't that why you bought MH?

smejias
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Re: music hall mmf-5 turntable

Good stuff, everyone. And congrats on a happy ending, backtowax.

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