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Crescendo
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Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Hello everyone. As I have indicated on my previous turntable discussions I am returning to the audio world and trying to piece together a nice system that will deliver a soundstage my maggies will gladly reproduce. I know I am preaching to the choir, however, I am going to need some power to deliver to the maggies.

I really would like some realistic recommendations for a nice dual mono preamp and a few on dual mono amps or just mono blocks. Unfortunately I am limited in funds so I will set a cap. If you exceed it fine. It may just be by a 100.00 or so or 500.00. I will just have to determine if it's worth it. SO here goes. I'll throw my system out there and the money I would like to spend and maybe you can help. If you don't want to publically recommend equipment then "PM" me. I would love to hear it.

Sources:
Turntable - Unamed 900.00 turntable because of a crappy experience.

CD - Marantz CD5001. Was going to Be Cambridge or Music Hall, but thought better. Although entry level the Marantz is reviewed well.

Speakers - Magnepan MG 0.5 Bi-ampable.

Subs - (2) Outlaw Audio LPM-1 (plus). Not integrated at this time until crossover can be established.

I currently have an old Sansui 9090db receiver as a preamp and (2) Outlaw Audio mono blocks. Not bad, but these amps are temporary and will be placed in my 7.1 system for movies.

I would like to spend less than 1000.00 on a preamp. I would like balanced connections, a reputable D/A converter and input for at least a M/M turntable. Dual mono would be lovely, however, unlikely in this price range.

I would like to spend 750.00 or so on a Dual mono amp or possible 1500.00 (combined) for dual mono blocks. Possibly driving 2 ohms on occasion. (I know, asking the impossible)

Genre's listened to: Almost everything. I love blues such as Buddy Guy, BB King, Clapton, and even more progessive R&B like Robert Cray. I LOVE Classic rock. I like some Jazz, more fusion and progressive. Pink FLoyd, Tangerine Dream, Nektar as well as Dream Theater. Very little classical, maybe Rachmaninov, Vivaldi's Four Seasons and such....but rare.

I would love a great sound stage and warmth (wouldn't we all) for the Maggies. The Outlaws do well, but I didn't buy them for this so. I am all ears and a little wallet, so LAY IT ON ME...

Thanks!!!

bifcake
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Here are my recommendations:

Preamp

Cary SLP-88 It's not balanced, but it's a nice, sweet, luscious and musical. It's a really well built preamp that can be had from $800-$1100 on Audiogon

BAT VK-3i - Simply gorgeous. Balanced, a bit dark sounding, but it flows. Beautiful. One of the biggest bargains out there.

Classe CP 47.5 - Tube sound in a solid state preamp. Balanced, rich, full sounding. Not the last word in transparency, but not a bad deal at all for the price.

Amps

Adcom GFA 565 - 250 watt monoblocks. Balanced, provide 325 watts into 4 ohms. A pair can be had for about $500-$600. Simply the best bargain in amplification bar none! NOTHING touches these things for even 3x the money.

Hope this helps

Crescendo
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

Hope this helps

Wow! Does this help? Of course. It all helps!!! But this is quick, decisive and very thoughtfully put together. Thanks!!! I have been trying to jump on the Adcoms for a while. I would like to find 2 at the same time for the right price (that's everybody's story)

Much Thanks!

jackfish
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

I would check out the Emotiva RSP-1 preamp. Incredible value at $630.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14...007-part-1.html

bifcake
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

You're welcome. My buddy picked up a pair of Adcom 565 monoblocks for about $550 per pair. They're driving is Infinity Kappa 8's. They sound terrific!

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
You're welcome. My buddy picked up a pair of Adcom 565 monoblocks for about $550 per pair.

OK AlexO, time to call your buddy and tell him to upgrade his amps. You have him a buyer!

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
I would check out the Emotiva RSP-1 preamp. Incredible value at $630.

Thanks Jackfish. Actually this was one of my first choices. I have to wait for the RSP-2 because the RSP-1 is done. I wanted to pair it with 2 RPA-2's as well. It is well received (in certain groups) and appears to be a TREMENDOUS value. They are just slow in delivery due to multiple products for multiple vendors down the same production line. The Adcoms have gathered my attention for years. If I could get those for what AlexO's buddy did, it would be a done deal. Today! :-)

Thanks for the good recommendation.

mrlowry
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

For many years I had an Adcom GFA-5802 which is a Nelson Pass design without the Nelson Pass price on the used market you should be able to get one for about $1,000. Mine drove Martin Logan CLS speakers happily which is extremely impressive because they are some of the most difficult to drive speakers ever made. Their impedance varies between 0.78 ohms all the way up to 16 ohms between 20Hz to 20kHz.

The matching preamp, GFP-750 is also a Nelson Pass design and was Stereophile Class "A" rated at one time. The next cheapest pre in Class "A" at the time was twice as much. You can probably find one for $750 used. I still use my 750 and I've tried a couple of well regarded $3,000 preamps that were a "little" better. By "little" I mean in the audiophile sense, which means almost not at all better. Both are truly balanced and not psudo-balanced.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
For many years I had an Adcom GFA-5802 which is a Nelson Pass design without the Nelson Pass price on the used market

I have seen those from time to time on Agon....They definitely got my attention. Very nice to know someone who actually uses it. Thanks for input.


Quote:

impressive because they are some of the most difficult to drive speakers ever made. Their impedance varies between 0.78 ohms all the way up to 16 ohms between 20Hz to 20kHz.

I had no idea the impedance dropped that low in the ML's. That in itself is a tremendous statement for the amp.
Is this in small portions of the frequency response or larger portions? Either way that says alot for the NP design and Adcom.

I hope this thread doesn't die soon. I love "two cents". The key is finding the one I want at the price I want at the right time!!!

mrlowry
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

To make matters worse they are specified as 86db efficient. Years ago when I met Gayle Sanders with a laugh and a smile he told me that they really are 84db efficient, they just didn't want to scare people off.

I believe that you mis-typed the Magnepan model number, which ones are you using?

With respect to Nelson Pass. I've never heard even a mediocre sounding design from him. Everything he has any input into sounds great. When talking to a rival designer about Nelson's track record he said without a trace of irony, "He could make a toaster sound good." He also worked on the GFA-5800, which was the predecessor to the GFA-5802.

For years I've heard rumors that he was somewhat involved with the design of the GFA-555 as well, which was considered a giant killer in it's day. The level of involvement differs depending on the source, but listening to it tells me he had SOMETHING to do with it.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
To make matters worse they are specified as 86db efficient. Years ago when I met Gayle Sanders with a laugh and a smile he told me that they really are 84db efficient, they just didn't want to scare people off.

yup, that might have scared me off too. However, my Maggies are 86db as well. I think mine is more of a resistive load close to 5-6 ohms. I don't think mine vary as much yours in impedance. As far as the model goes, they are Magnepan MG-.5/QR's. They are fairly rare from what I understand. They are better than the MMG's in the sense you can bi-amp them. You can find the sale on Audiogon:

Very pleasant transaction, not revealing the actual cost. Great seller!

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1219866210


Quote:

With respect to Nelson Pass. I've never heard even a mediocre sounding design from him.

I have heard the same regarding Mr. Pass. I am looking at several recommendations which include his designs (Thanks to you). It's amazing that I am just really getting involved with this hobby and see such a diverse amount of equipment designs to choose from. It's going to be tough.

I guess now I am torn between tube and solid state. With as much "rock" as I like, I am unsure as to which preamp I should go with. I will just have to see.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Don't worry. Magnepans are a tough load to drive but their impedance is as close to ruler flat as they come. That's part of the reason that they are such neutral sounding speakers.

I sold my Adcom GFA-5802 amp a couple of years ago because I found a Threshold Stasis S550e amp at a killer price, also a Nelson Pass design. I can't recommend the GFP-750 preamp highly enough, especially at the prices they go for used. Wes Phillips loved it and along with JA he is the most discerning of Stereophile's reviewers. I've heard many of the things that he has reviewed and my impressions and conclusions are never far off from his.

http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/133/index.html

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Hello folks, so this won't die on the vine and other might possibly benefit, could someone elaborate on what they think of Jolida preamps? The Envoy or possibly the JD 3000B. Any thoughts on really any Jolida preamps? I just missed out on a BAT VK-3i that I really wanted and it was just outside my budget. Very nice individual, but my bid was just ouside his acceptance level. Oh well. I guess I could have swung the amount, but I still have mono blocks to buy and a phono preamp too! ANy thoughts or ideas, or if you have a BAT VK-3i you want to get rid of......ooops sorry!

jackfish
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

One of the best sounding systems I've heard was the Jolida Musical Envoy preamp and monoblocks driving Meadowlark Blue Heron IIs. The source was the Shanling starship CD-T1500. That system really took off!

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
One of the best sounding systems I've heard was the Jolida Musical Envoy preamp

Nice to hear your input Jackfish! I have received MANY good recommendation on preamps, however, no one mentioned Jolida. I was concerned about reliability because there are so MANY of their items for sale everywhere. Usually not a good sign. Thanks.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Here are some other thoughts on the Jolida Musical Envoy stuff:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/musicenvoy_e.html

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
Don't worry. Magnepans are a tough load to drive but their impedance is as close to ruler flat as they come. That's part of the reason that they are such neutral sounding speakers.

I sold my Adcom GFA-5802 amp a couple of years ago because I found a Threshold Stasis S550e amp at a killer price, also a Nelson Pass design. I can't recommend the GFP-750 preamp highly enough, especially at the prices they go for used. Wes Phillips loved it and along with JA he is the most discerning of Stereophile's reviewers. I've heard many of the things that he has reviewed and my impressions and conclusions are never far off from his.

http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/133/index.html

Not quite, IMHO. Wes likes his digital and seemingly likes it a bit 'hard', from my recollection of his tastes.

Mikey, on the other hand, seems to be a bit more balanced in his likes and dislikes. Poor guy has been lost in a pile of high end turntables and carts for these past few years...but I'm sure he sees no crime in that.

Art, I like, I value his opinions. As stated, been reading his work and I supported bookstand sales of Listener when it was available. The title of the Chris Beeching column was always fun: "Beeching to the Converted"

As an example, when we show our speakers to dealers (which only a few have been allowed to hear, so far) ...even the most experienced have a problem.

They cannot hear the difference between ours..and that of others. The thing they aren't prepared for..is to listen INTO the noise floor.

Audiophiles, in general are so attuned to and dependent upon hearing 'detail' and 'spacial information' off of overtly expressed transients, that they have forgotten that LIVE music has no noise related decayed energy in it. When they listen to speakers, they have no freaking clue how to relate that specifically to live music.

One dealer, with over 30 years in distribution and sales..we had to train that person for a full day to finally allow themselves to listen INTO the noise floor for dynamic expression, the way that real music does..and to NOT listen like a 'trained audiophile'.

In my experience, the folks who listen INTO the noise floor automatically and hear improvements there immediately..those are the guys like Mikey and Art.

The guys who hear 'just the transients' and somehow think that exaggerated transient edging piled on top of other distortions somehow equates to spacious revealing sound, those are the guys who have not made it to the real world of high end audio ---yet. These are the guys who buy high feedback amps, usually SS types, and use complex speakers with ceramic drivers, or kevlar..and high slope crossovers. And SS preamps..and they LOVE digital. Or speaker wire with boxes on them. In giant bare rooms.

We're not talking differences. We're talking basic capacity for discernment.

Need I say more?

bifcake
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

The guys who hear 'just the transients' and somehow think that exaggerated transient edging piled on top of other distortions somehow equates to spacious revealing sound, those are the guys who have not made it to the real world of high end audio ---yet. These are the guys who buy high feedback amps, usually SS types, and use complex speakers with ceramic drivers, or kevlar..and high slope crossovers. And SS preamps..and they LOVE digital. Or speaker wire with boxes on them. In giant bare rooms.

We're not talking differences. We're talking basic capacity for discernment.

Need I say more?

Wow, in a single post, you've taken a pot shot at DUP, Wes and my friend Stew! Talk about killing multiple birds with one stone!

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

KBK-

I've always found MF and AD's preferences to run towards the warm, lush, and/or soft. But that's why Stereophile employs different reviewers with different perspectives. Personally, I've been reading the various Stereophile reviewers long enough that I have an reverse EQ curve built into my head for each reviewer to compensate for what I see as their biases. That's why I always tell people that they should have read Stereophile for a year before putting too much weight onto what the reviews "say." Everyone has biases some are more dramatic than others. I find Wes' and JA biases closest to my own and thus their reviews the most informative.

KBK
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

I haven't said much on the forum for a while, so I thought I'd say something contentious. Apparently.

I think that both Wes and John have a good ear, no doubt.

I'm trying to vent my spleen on my essential and core issue with people who wouldn't know real audio reproduction if it came up to them and bit them in the ass,as so few actually have the opportunity to hear it.

I'm down to the essence of molecular and atomic considerations when putting together audio gear, in order to prefect it as much as humanly possible. I'm getting into a rarefied area. I apologize if such sounds like some sort of ego rant, but it is expressed as a point in observation and logic. However, with so many proprietary points of understanding under my belt..that I'm forced to keep close, and not share, I'm left with not much more than something that looks like a rant.

For example..If I want a better capacitor-I have to design it myself. (I fully believe that I can)

If I want a better resistor-I have to design it myself. (I fully believe that I can)

If I want a better volume control design than what is out there - I have to design it myself. (I'm in the middle of doing exactly that-and I'm talking about taking $300-800 volume controls to task as being 'not good enough, dammit!')

I already designed a better audio internal fusing system and just released that puppy into the wild on the DIYaudio forum. But only because the best is kept for myself, and that particular point (the better fusing) is not worth holding back as an innovation..but the thinking behind it is new, even for most designers of gear.

Adcom gear is particularly notorious for excessive fusing. Fusing, sonically speaking - sucks. Big time.

Allow me to piss and moan for a moment. It'll pass. I'll be fine. That I should pick this particular thread to pass air in, is simply luck of the draw.

RGibran
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

I'll have what he's having!

RG

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

Adcom gear is particularly notorious for excessive fusing. Fusing, sonically speaking - sucks. Big time.

Another point taken. Based on my input provided earlier in the thread, do you have and basic recommendations for amps (SS or tube) within my price range or there abouts?

Thanks

jackfish
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

The Emotiva stuff represents very good value for its performance. I would still consider the RSP-2 with the XPA-2 power amp.
http://www.emotiva.com/images/EmotivaRPA1.pdf
http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2008-08.pdf

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
The Emotiva stuff represents very good value for its performance. I would still consider the RSP-2 with the XPA-2 power amp.

Yes indeed. I am still waiting for the RPA2. Looks like later August instead of mid-August. This is my choice as of yet. Looks like a very nice amp.

The Adcom's 565's just aren't around. I say one on Epary for 400.00 plus shipping. I saw one pair (with one FU'ed) for 600 plus shipping. I thought that was a little steep for what I was getting. Thanks

bifcake
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

You can use two Adcom 555 amps bridged mono. That would work pretty well too. Those things are cheaper than dirt.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
You can use two Adcom 555 amps bridged mono. That would work pretty well too. Those things are cheaper than dirt.

Bridging Adcom 555 would mean that they would "see" 2ohms from a pair of Magnepans. They will do it, but Adcom doesn't recommend it nor would I for long term use. In fact I'd do a vertical biamp with two before I'd do a bridge mono.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

The Adcom's 565's just aren't around. I say one on Epray for 400.00 plus shipping. I saw one pair (with one FU'ed) for 600 plus shipping. I thought that was a little steep for what I was getting. Thanks

Quick question if I may. All of the Adcom GFA-565 amps I have seen have been line level input only. Someone on Epray is selling one (says it's a 565) that has a balanced input. It also looks stereo instead of mono block. I thought these were single ended only monoblocks, not bridged mono. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks, as always.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

I would like to spend less than 1000.00 on a preamp.

Well, I found a Classe' CP-47.5 preamp on Agon..The thing really looks nice! The guy appears to be a great person as well.

I have decided the following for a phono preamp for the moment. I am going to order the phono card from Classe' for this preamp. I also ordered a Cambridge Azur as well. I am going to do a listening test after each break in and see what I like. In the very near furture I plan on ordering a Vp129 (Bellari). Please, if you have any recommendations, tube or SS for phono amps under 500-600 dollars that will greatly inprove on any of these please post in the phono pre-amp thread (The Entry Level). I also am looking to purchase a Jolida tube phono preamp too. SO, I have many choices here. If you agree great! If not , that's great too! I would love to hear them in the other thread. Have a good one.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

Quote:

The Adcom's 565's just aren't around. I say one on Epray for 400.00 plus shipping. I saw one pair (with one FU'ed) for 600 plus shipping. I thought that was a little steep for what I was getting. Thanks

Quick question if I may. All of the Adcom GFA-565 amps I have seen have been line level input only. Someone on Epray is selling one (says it's a 565) that has a balanced input. It also looks stereo instead of mono block. I thought these were single ended only monoblocks, not bridged mono. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks, as always.

My buddy's 565 is a monoblock and if memory serves, it has a balanced as well as single ended inputs.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

My buddy's 565 is a monoblock and if memory serves, it has a balanced as well as single ended inputs.

The "light" turns on. I went to their website and low and behold the manual (go figure) had my answer. There are two options for this particular amp. One is for a fan and the other is for a "balanced in connection". The panel clearly states optional. If you look for this "option" on photos it's tough to see. So, I guess now, my job will be to find two amps with balanced in. All that I have seen, except one, only have the single ended connection.... Dohhh

Thanks AlexO. Can't wait to tell you how the CP 47.5 sounds. It will be here on Friday!!!!!! :-)

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Let us know how it goes!

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:

Thanks AlexO. Can't wait to tell you how the CP 47.5 sounds. It will be here on Friday!!!!!! :-)

OK gang, here is my first report on the classe' CP 47.5 preamp from a PURE newbie standpoint.

I listened to several albums. 1st was Duffy's album and I was impressed with the clarity I experienced. It seems as though the voice WAS the soundstage. Instuments paled in level/volume compared to her voice. The cymbals (especially high hats) shimmered. Very well defined compared to my old Sansui. Now, mind you, I am a newbie and do not understand all of the terms that most describe preamps with, but I think I undertand neutral and transparent. When I listened to this preamp I finally realized how much my music was colored. Too much bass/treble and not enough midrange. This is generally how I like it. Not good for jazz or classical but good for rock!! This preamp is transparent. It adds no color (well no tone circuit) so it took some getting used to. The Eagles "Out of Eden" was amazing!! What a sound stage it presented. I liked it!! I then moved to classic rock (Rush) and some harder rock and I was crushed. It sounded like CRAP. Part of it was the recording and part of it appeared to be a lack of bass response. It just sounded hollow and bland. Was it the Magnepan's? I don't know. I just am so used to a colored music at this point that I was shocked at the differences. I am used to (with tone controls) higher bass, neutral midrange, higher treble. The Classe' with no tone control (as it should be) has an incredible midrange and apprarently neutral treble and bass compared to the Sansui. This in a bell curve would be 180 degrees out from how I listened to music before. Maybe i was listening to sound and not the music! Well gang. It's gonna take ole' Crescendo here a little time to adjust. Any suggestions to ease this transition? Or am I just revealing limitations to recordings I was compensating with tone controls? Thanks.....

bifcake
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

Magnepans are magical when it comes to highs and the midrange, but they don't do bass very well. I didn't like the way they do rock music. I don't think it has to do with your pre-amp. I think you're looking for that bass pop that you would get for dynamic speakers. So, either explore a good set of dynamic speakers (hard to match magnepans for the money) or get a sub (hard to integrate). Welcome to hell that's the never ending search for perfection.

mrlowry
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)

A great system will certainly reveal limitations in the source material. Any Rock recording from the 1970's will have flaws, most of them will have lots of problems. One of the best tips that I can offer you is to suggest that you should not ask yourself whether the system sounds "good" or "bad" but whether it sounds "neutral." If you tailor a system to sound "good" with a particular group of recordings it will most likely fall flat on it's face on nearly everything else. Where as if you try to put together a neutral system some recordings may disappoint, but overall your enjoyment will be higher.

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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
Magnepans are magical when it comes to highs and the midrange, but they don't do bass very well. I didn't like the way they do rock music. I don't think it has to do with your pre-amp. I think you're looking for that bass pop that you would get for dynamic speakers. So, either explore a good set of dynamic speakers

I agree AlexO. The Maggie's are magical for highs/mids. I do love them, and yes, an AMAZING value. My son has a band (progressive rock) that we listen to and I was ASTOUNDED by the vertical soundstage this recording produced on the maggie's (and their reproduction of the same). It truly was similar to a stage. It went to the ceiling. Even a 14 year old noticed that. He closed his eyes and I could still see the amazed look on his face. He had never heard anything like this before. I haven't even tried this recording with the Classe' yet. This was with the old Sansui. I am really interested to see how the Classe' handles it. I am trying to integrate a sub at this time for my maggies (actually dual subs). I will see how that goes. As far as neutrality of the Classe' you once entioned, I firmly agree with you on it's transparency. Very little is added if any.

I am not looking for dynamic speakers at this time however, if you have a recommendation for the future I would love to hear it.

Thanks AlexO...

Crescendo
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


Quote:
One of the best tips that I can offer you is to suggest that you should not ask yourself whether the system sounds "good" or "bad" but whether it sounds "neutral."

Kudos!!! This is very good advice for anyone. Especially me. AlexO eluded to this fact as well when recommending preamps for me. It was more subtle, but essentially the same advice. This is the approach I have taken so far. Even looking to integrate a sub might change. It is amazing to see the differences in quality with newer music. All I can say is wow. MrLowry, thanks for your help as well.

floydianpsyche
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Re: Mono Block help/Dual Mono possible (Lay it on me)


When I listened to this preamp I finally realized how much my music was colored. Too much bass/treble and not enough midrange. This is generally how I like it. Not good for jazz or classical but good for rock!! This preamp is transparent. It adds no color (well no tone circuit) so it took some getting used to. The Eagles "Out of Eden" was amazing!! What a sound stage it presented. I liked it!! I then moved to classic rock (Rush) and some harder rock and I was crushed. It sounded like CRAP. Part of it was the recording and part of it appeared to be a lack of bass response. It just sounded hollow and bland. Was it the Magnepan's? I don't know. I just am so used to a colored music at this point that I was shocked at the differences. I am used to (with tone controls) higher bass, neutral midrange, higher treble. -Crescendo

Cresecendo: this is exactly how I felt a year ago whey I got my NAD c352 amp and Monitor Audio RS6 speakers...you have clearly put it in words. I have almost stopped buying rock records (was a big fan of classic rock for 15 years), and the few rock records that I bought... I listened to them may be a few times. I am buying only Jazz, blues and classical records these days. The more acoustic the sound is the better it sounds in my system. I keep wondering to this date that if my system is flawed or is it just me!

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