bobb
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Moderator - Please change order of forum
clarets2
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Great idea. Recruits needed and I do think R&R can turn people away.

smejias
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I have thought about this. But, I don't think it's a good idea to take the most active section of the forum and place it at the bottom. I also fear that putting a quiet section at the top would make it seem as though the forum were completely dead. I'd rather we have activity.

I have also considered making changes to other sections, so as to liven them up. I'll work on this once we return from the Montreal show.

Welshsox
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Stephen

That seems to sum up the problem.

You are more concerned about keeping the activity even if its the aggressive style. There is a strong ground swell of opinion that the forum has lost its way and needs to get back to audio and lose the political/bitchy overtones.

Lets get rid of the open bar move the audio sections to the top, are you really oblivious to the amount of regulars who no longer post because of the nasty culture that has been allowed to develop ?

Alan

Lamont Sanford
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I have to agree with you . I don't understand the order of the forums either but they have always been that way since day one. The magazine by issues should be at the top or what you suggested. I realize I'm part of the problem with those active forums at the top but that doesn't mean you're not correct and have a valid opinion that should be taken seriously.

When you think about it it really doesn't make any sense. If they take out the Rant forums all they have left are audio related issues to deal with. I also don't understand how the parent company would allow this sort of strange management by the editors of the magazine. Doesn't make any sense but who let the dogs out?


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Oddball: Definitely an antisocial type. Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation.

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Look at the threads that get the most play....The rants and raves section is by far the leading set of threads...

If you want a forum that avoids vigorous exchange, preclude all mention of audio fads or well known areas of disagreement like cables or server based gear, stop all comment on politics in the magazine itself, and one will ave a nice forum, with a few score posters and no heart at all.

Stultifyingly dull but nice.

Lamont Sanford
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That is the main problem. It is dull and I think the Druid wants it "dull but nice" in an English sort of way. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

But all of this isn't going to do any good if we don't start receiving our magazines in the mail soon.

ncdrawl
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Moderator, can we have a section for the forum whiners at the bottom? I'm afraid that a new person coming in will see all the grown men whining like women about "language" and "hurt feelings" and think this is a Promise Keepers club.


Quote:
Look at the threads that get the most play....The rants and raves section is by far the leading set of threads...

If you want a forum that avoids vigorous exchange, preclude all mention of audio fads or well known areas of disagreement like cables or server based gear, stop all comment on politics in the magazine itself, and one will ave a nice forum, with a few score posters and no heart at all.

Stultifyingly dull but nice.

Lamont Sanford
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Quote:
Moderator, can we have a section for the forum whiners at the bottom? I'm afraid that a new person coming in will see all the grown men whining like women about "language" and "hurt feelings" and think this is a Promise Keepers club.

Hey, shut the fuck up and go back to your little Richard Petty shrine you got out in your garage.

ncdrawl
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Did you get castrated or something, Lamont? man up, son.


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I have to agree with you . I don't understand the order of the forums either but they have always been that way since day one. The magazine by issues should be at the top or what you suggested. I realize I'm part of the problem with those active forums at the top but that doesn't mean you're not correct and have a valid opinion that should be taken seriously.

When you think about it it really doesn't make any sense. If they take out the Rant forums all they have left are audio related issues to deal with. I also don't understand how the parent company would allow this sort of strange management by the editors of the magazine. Doesn't make any sense but who let the dogs out?


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Oddball: Definitely an antisocial type. Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog imitation.

Lamont Sanford
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See Post #64403

ncdrawl
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My shrine is to the intimidator, jackass.


Quote:

Quote:
Moderator, can we have a section for the forum whiners at the bottom? I'm afraid that a new person coming in will see all the grown men whining like women about "language" and "hurt feelings" and think this is a Promise Keepers club.


Quote:
Look at the threads that get the most play....The rants and raves section is by far the leading set of threads...

If you want a forum that avoids vigorous exchange, preclude all mention of audio fads or well known areas of disagreement like cables or server based gear, stop all comment on politics in the magazine itself, and one will ave a nice forum, with a few score posters and no heart at all.

Stultifyingly dull but nice.

Hey, shut the fuck and go back to your little Richard Petty shrine you got out in your garage.

Lamont Sanford
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#3 and #43 were some of the biggest cheaters in NASCAR history. Those were the days!

bobb
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Quote:
I have thought about this. But, I don't think it's a good idea to take the most active section of the forum and place it at the bottom. I also fear that putting a quiet section at the top would make it seem as though the forum were completely dead. I'd rather we have activity.

Stephen,

As you can see and as I fully expected, it didn't take long for the 'regulars' to make my point. When you speak of activity, don't confuse quantity with quality. What kind of activity is it you seek - chat room nonsense or audio discussions? Do you feel good about what people see here? Is it a good reflection on Stereophile?

You're the boss. You make the call.

In any event, thanks for responding and at least considering my request. Enjoy the show and I look forward to the reports.

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Quote:
Stephen,

As you can see and as I fully expected, it didn't take long for the 'regulars' to make my point. When you speak of activity, don't confuse quantity with quality. What kind of activity is it you seek - chat room nonsense or audio discussions? Do you feel good about what people see here? Is it a good reflection on Stereophile?

You're the boss. You make the call.

I second that and unfortunately await the replies - if you can call them that - from Comrade Earwig and Pancho.

Welshsox
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Lamont

There seems to be a misconception that we want everything to be polite with no differeing opinions. You couldnt me more wrong, that is exactly what I would like to see, the problem is that the aggressive nature of the forum has stopped the majority of people from expressing different opinions.

At the moment if anyone says anything even slightly against certain people's thoughts then they are attacked and every post they ever made is searched for evidence like a cross examination.

The whole idea is to lose the aggression so the people interetsed only in audio and not politics/religion etc will come back to the forum and benefit everyone.

I can look back at the posts in 2009 and see nothing of consequence about audio but lots of bitching about Obama/Bush/religion/gays/price of CD players etc that should not be the dominant themes on an audio forum.

Alan

Lamont Sanford
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What? You're one of the main motherfuckers I come here to harass. Chickenshit ass licking brown nosing piece-of-shit loser. Even DUP has more class than you.

ncdrawl
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It takes all kinds of people. Not just the "polite" ones.

Id rather see a real world forum where folks can speak freely..not some watered down "polite" dare I say FAKE circle jerk of a place.

and if people are running away, hell, let em go.If all it takes to run people off is typed words, id rather not have them around. The real world isn't all diamonds and cupcakes. why should this be any different?

Quote:

Quote:
I have thought about this. But, I don't think it's a good idea to take the most active section of the forum and place it at the bottom. I also fear that putting a quiet section at the top would make it seem as though the forum were completely dead. I'd rather we have activity.

Stephen,

As you can see and as I fully expected, it didn't take long for the 'regulars' to make my point. When you speak of activity, don't confuse quantity with quality. What kind of activity is it you seek - chat room nonsense or audio discussions? Do you feel good about what people see here? Is it a good reflection on Stereophile?

You're the boss. You make the call.

In any event, thanks for responding and at least considering my request. Enjoy the show and I look forward to the reports.

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What? You're one of the main motherfuckers I come here to harass. Chickenshit ass licking brown nosing piece-of-shit loser. Even DUP has more class than you.

Welshsox
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NC

Does the confrontation make you feel better ?

Alan

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"better"? as in do I live to argue? no. but, it doesnt bother me, either. I was a grunt, so I feel right at home:). I enjoy seeing people speak their minds. I surely don't want some uppity coffee and croissants tea club suit and tie stiffs only hang out.. I like the lax rules here.

I post plenty about audio, but I will gladly shift gears and mix it up, too.


Quote:
NC

Does the confrontation make you feel better ?

Alan

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I enjoy having lamont around because he likes taking the piss..

some folks are in dire need of what he has to offer. they just don't realize it.

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Im fine with your audio posts, you make great contributions.

Why do we need to mix it up at all ?

I think the thing that your not seeing is that for a lot of people myself included audio is stress relief, we have high stress jobs and we use audio to relax not to continue mixing it up as we did all week. I do not need to get into pissing matches when i ask for thoughts on say on amplifier, im fine with some saying that they think brand x is crap or overrated thats the feedback i want. I dont want to get attacked because maybe 12 months ago i heard brand x and thought it was bad and now ive maybe changed my mind, why does that have to bring out so much anger ?

Alan

Lamont Sanford
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That's why they call us grunts. Because a grunt can take it. At the risk of plagiarizing Oliver Stone.

Has anyone really watched "Platoon"? At first you get the impression that Elias is right. Towards the end you start to realize that the antagonist, Barnes, is spot on. Now, everybody, GET BACK TO YOUR FUCKING FOXHOLES AND SHUT THE FUCK UP AND QUIT CRYING LIKE MOMMY DIDN'T GIVE YOU ENOUGH BREAST MILK WHEN YOU WERE A BABY!.

Hell, I've been keeping my responses watered down anyhow.

ncdrawl
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Audio is a stress relief for me too. As for the whys regarding anger.. It is a human thing. Audio people (same with engineers too, get the same type of arguments about microphones and preamps)are fiercely loyal to brands(usually whatever is in their system, until they sell it and jump to another brand)... it comes with the territory.

Just let it slide, let people say what they have to say. I dont like the idea of verbal censorship....in the long run, it doesnt matter, really. the offending thread can easily be avoided. I think that it makes for an interesting forum, personally. Without idiots like lamont, this place would be very boring!


Quote:
Im fine with your audio posts, you make great contributions.

Why do we need to mix it up at all ?

I think the thing that your not seeing is that for a lot of people myself included audio is stress relief, we have high stress jobs and we use audio to relax not to continue mixing it up as we did all week. I do not need to get into pissing matches when i ask for thoughts on say on amplifier, im fine with some saying that they think brand x is crap or overrated thats the feedback i want. I dont want to get attacked because maybe 12 months ago i heard brand x and thought it was bad and now ive maybe changed my mind, why does that have to bring out so much anger ?

Alan

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Quote:

Hell, I've been keeping my responses watered down anyhow.

Don't be a pussy, Lamont. let it all out.

Lamont Sanford
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Without idiots like lamont, this place would be very boring!

Hey! I resemble that!

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Quote:

Quote:
Without idiots like lamont, this place would be very boring!

Hey! I resemble that!

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Strange that you find the pissing contests interesting and fun. Its the lack of decent audio conversations that is making the forum boring and dull.

You really think that everyone enjoys you and lamont attacking people and calling them motherfuckers because they have a different opinion to u ?

Lamont Sanford
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Will you please stop crying and continuing the ranting. You are starting to act like me. You've made it clear you don't like bickering on the board but yet you continue to start this flame war. You need to get your shit in one sock. In other words, knock it off with the hypocritical snobbish British attitude. The admins have heard your suggestion many times. You're starting to sound like a broken record (note my reference to something audio).

geoffkait
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"I think the thing that your not seeing is that for a lot of people myself included audio is stress relief, we have high stress jobs and we use audio to relax not to continue mixing it up as we did all week. I do not need to get into pissing matches when i ask for thoughts on say on amplifier, im fine with some saying that they think brand x is crap or overrated thats the feedback i want. I dont want to get attacked because maybe 12 months ago i heard brand x and thought it was bad and now ive maybe changed my mind, why does that have to bring out so much anger?"

If one longs for a forum to talk about amps and preamps and such, DIY Audio provides plenty of opportunity. The current thread on John Curl's Blowtorch Preamp is up to around 17,000 posts by now. Not that everyone will find the discussion exactly, uh, riveting.

Recent example:

Post #16926

"John,
Any clues for what are the things that influence the way audio system sounds, but cannot directly measured?"

Ah, so it goes....

"An ordinary man has no means of deliverance." - Wm Burroughs

commsysman
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...Full of sound and fury...signifying nothing...

ncdrawl
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the forum is perfect the way it is. Whiners, dickheads, foo-fighters, snake oil pimps, homosexuals, breeders, and all.

let it be. the ones that dont like it will get weeded out, and the forum will be that much the better for it.

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Quote:
the forum is perfect the way it is. Whiners, dickheads, foo-fighters, snake oil pimps, homosexuals, breeders, and all.

let it be. the ones that dont like it will get weeded out, and the forum will be that much the better for it.


All forums and new groups, especially those that attract a 100% male membership, eventually tend towards flame wars & puerile obscenity on a frequent basis. The only way to prevent this is to have strict 24 hour moderation. This is a tall order for any group of mods, let alone a single moderator.
I do worry about the impression first time posters get though when they start a thread, usually with a question, and have to watch it either degenerate into a flame war or an esoteric diversion without their original question being answered. There's no perfect solution to all of this, human nature being what it is.

Lamont Sanford
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Well, they would think we're a dysfunctional bunch and rightly so. If they're dysfunctional themselves there won't be a problem now would there? I hope I got all my thaires correct.

When I die I want on my gravestone, "Here Lies Lamont Sanford... and why not?." If for any other reason than to start a flame war.

Much thanks to David St. Hubbins. Rock on and RIP brother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_St._Hubbins


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He was at times working on a project he was very excited about, an Icelandic album of Broadway tunes called Bj
ncdrawl
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I thought you enjoyed obscene things?:o


Quote:

Quote:
the forum is perfect the way it is. Whiners, dickheads, foo-fighters, snake oil pimps, homosexuals, breeders, and all.

let it be. the ones that dont like it will get weeded out, and the forum will be that much the better for it.


All forums and new groups, especially those that attract a 100% male membership, tend towards flame wars a puerile obscenity on a frequent basis. The only way to prevent this is to have strict 24 hour moderation. This is a tall order for any group of mods, let alone a single moderator.
I do worry about the impression first time posters get though when they start a tread, usually with a question, and have to watch it either degenerate into a flame war or an esoteric diversion without their original question being answered. There's no perfect solution to all of this, human nature being what it is.

gkc
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Yeah, Lamont. I never did understand all the sensitivity bullshit.

Grunt.

Still, civility and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee most of the time. Be sure to bring the 5 bucks, though, just in case. And if anybody thinks that is a compromise, just whip out your .44 and grease the miserable shit. Life moves on.

Stephen does an outstanding job of maintaining some semblance of order among the members of this audiophile (--phobe?) zoo.

So I vote we let Stephen continue to run the order of the drill, since he will no doubt continue to do so anyway. Even a Captain knows to salute a Colonel.

Stephen, you are the best damned moderator in Christendom OR devildom. Keep doin' what you do. And fuck the latrine-cleaners on the back row. There is a reason why they clean latrines.

If anybody has a problem negotiating the Table of Contents, send the miserable motherfucker back to "Index 101."

Sorry if I seem offensive on this issue.

Not.

Happy tunes. What a miserable fucking thread. Not a NOTE of music mentioned, and no arguments over which pre-amp jiggles your nuts the most. I go away for a week, and I come back to a fucking argument over how to run the index.

Is this, too, to be blamed on the recession?

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Quote:
Happy tunes. What a miserable fucking thread. Not a NOTE of music mentioned, and no arguments over which pre-amp jiggles your nuts the most. I go away for a week, and I come back to a fucking argument over how to run the index.


The young man who mows the lawns for me jiggles my nuts more that most pre-amps but if you're talking preamps I reckon the Parasound Classic range should get anyone going - or one of these beauties. http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm Me, I use an integrated on my main music system and man oh man, does it ever jiggle my nuts.

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I think the forum should have a cover page before one can access the discussions proper.
Forum annoncements, Stereophile issues discussions,volumes, etc could be moved to the forum cover page.
Then "Audio Hardware" and "A Sofware" discussions -the most interesting- could start just after "General Discussions". Also I think you should consider adding a section for home cinema hardware and sofware. Some five ch amps out there are as good or better than their 2ch amp counterpart (at least for home cinema). Thinking about my Aragon X5.

The problem with this forum is that it doesn't attract heavy weight audiophiles who all post elsewhere. Stereophile's writers themselves seldom post here because there is no one to talk to in the first place. I mean the moderator is the 30 years old web technician, an audiophile newbie who just got his first turntable, not even a reviewer and a writer at the magazine.

That 85% posters would want to reinstate DUP is a testimony to the futility of this forum.

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Quote:
The problem with this forum is that it doesn't attract heavy weight audiophiles who all post elsewhere.

Interesting. How does one gain entry into that class? Spend six figure sums per year on the latest goo gaws, be able to read a complex circuit diagram or maybe both?

Quote:
Stereophile's writers themselves seldom post here because there is no one to talk to in the first place.


That could be a chicken and egg supposition but maybe there's an unstated policy at Stereophile itself that staff should stay away from this place? I'd be interested to hear from them about it, if they're permitted to discuss such things on the forum. If they're not, we'll never know.

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Stereophile's writers themselves seldom post here because there is no one to talk to in the first place.

"Smarter than the average Bear, BooBoo, smarter than the average Bear."

Grosse Fatigue
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1/ Not asking to reinstate DUP.

2/ In the old days they all posted on Usenet and now you can read them on Audio Asylum and the AVS Forum (free advertising).

3/ Why not putting a couple of Stereophile's reviewers to moderate the different sections of this forum?? SM can keep the section for the newbies, for those who just got sucked into buying their first turntable.

ncdrawl
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atta boy, Froggie. Let them french colours fly. when in doubt, just be arrogant.

viva la france

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