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geoffkait
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Machina Dynamica Article now on line - Why do CDs sound so Horrible?

What's Wrong with CDs and Why do they Sound so Horrible?

http://machinadynamica.com/machina35.htm

Cheers

Geoff Kait,
Machina Dynamica

Doctor Fine
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Copy THIS

Many CDs are NOT representative of fine sound.

They are instead copies of BAD audio, produced using terrible equipment and not even listened to during the duplication process.

Last night I was trying to listen to an MCA CD of Steppenwolf volumes 1 and 2. Kinda sound official doesn't it?---Vols 1 and 2.

As though some thought went into the CDs.

But it DIDN'T. These two CDs were so congested, distorted and blurry sounding I couldn't enjoy them even for a moment. Instead I felt myself LONGING for the original vinyl playback recordings which I purchased back in 1968.

THOSE were some of the most exciting, clear and HiFi of any recordings I hade back in my early audiophile days. In particular I loved the way Steppenwolf had the bass in the mix.

I played side by side on stage with these fellows when my band was house band for the year that Thee Image in Miami featured all the top acts of the 60s including Led Zep, the Mothers, Canned Heat and practically anybody who was anybody.

So when I tell you "great bass" I recall how fantastic John Kay's band sounded live on that stage. Great soundfield and a live bass sound that will not soon be forgotten by those that heard it. Earthshaking is the word.

As a side note if anybody knows of any Steppenwolf CDs which are OUTSTANDING duplicates of those original vinyl masters---I am all ears.

The vinyl in 1968 had real tight bass and along with the neat use of space and movement in the mixdown these albums (their first and second) were EXTRAORDINARY. In 1968-69 they were what I used to show off the McIntosh double 275 double AR3a system in use at the time.

To check if I was suffering from a delusion filtered through too many years (and various substances imbibed whilst listening) I went on line to find better sounding versions of the first and second albums.

Within minutes I had better quality audio versions playing off YouTube using compression tricks than the CDs I had paid all that money for.

Clearer. More "alive" Less Congested. From better sources. Not sure what the YouTube stuff was copied from but it was obviously NOT from the ones MCA had produced on CD.

And I still want the original vinyl as it was done in 1968.

That was before anybody started issuing low quality low resolution, distorted versions...And THAT is why vinyl is still important. It is the BEST in some instances and it is not able to be IMPROVED. You can trust the originals as they started the legend.

Sorry. Vinyl is not perfect but it might be the best you can get in some cases. And THAT is why I never assume a CD is any good. Many just aren't.

wkhanna
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RFTH!

 photo rfth_zps05970ae1.jpg

Run for the hills!
The end of Hi-Fi as we know it is near.
SeeDee-Ageddon is nigh upon us!
If you need me, I will be hiding under my bed.

Jeesh…sounds like scare tactics right out of the Karl Rove handbook.
But fret not, my son, as Computer Audio is your one & only salvation.

All in good fun, of course ; )

Bill - on the Hill
Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
- just an “ON” switch, Please -

Doctor Fine
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All in good fun, of course;)

Your crappy sounding computer is loaded up with ruined copies of bad sounding poorly recorded digital transfers of once great analog audio.

The promise of computer audio presupposes that you truly duplicate high rez stuff properly transferred in the first place.

I like CD when it works that way. It has something to offer in convenience after all, plus it can be dead quiet.

All I ask is that any digital I own be as fresh as possible and from as close to mastering grade sonically as is currently available.

When THAT is impossible because there ARE no worthwhile high quality digital transfers out there---then let it be in the original well recorded high quality vinyl format.

When I say that Steppenwolk had a great bass sound I refer to the fact that I played side by side on the same stage with the boys back in 1968 at Thee Image Club in Sunny Isles, Miami. My house band days included almost the year long period the club featured all the top bands of the 60s including Led Zep, the Mothers, Ted Nugent, Canned Heat and Blood Sweat and Tears.

And the bass that Steppenwolf put out on that stage was nothing short of earthmoving. Deep. Tuneful. And what a great stage sound they had with most of the sound from their super amps and NOT from the PA, as it so common today at clubs.

Your comment by the way also implies that computer audio solves this problem of poor digital transfers. How does it do that, exactly. Upsampling?

Or do you have some secret download pipeline into digitally re-recorded masters of the great analog recordings? Recordings not available to the rest of us, my son?

All in good fun, of course;)

All in good fun, of course;)

geoffkait
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Is it true that a lot of

Is it true that a lot of older audiophiles are moving to computer audio because there's even less work involved than CDs, which of course became so in vogue because the older audiophiles were unable to get their stupid tonearm geometry quite right? Just curious...

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Doctor Fine
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Silly Young Newbie is a TROLL
geoffkait wrote:

Is it true that a lot of older audiophiles are moving to computer audio because there's even less work involved than CDs, which of course became so in vogue because the older audiophiles were unable to get their stupid tonearm geometry quite right? Just curious...

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

No you are not just curious. You are just trolling for fish bait.

Gotcha!!!

It all ways amuses me when some late comer who knows absolutely nothing about our hobby, like Geoff Kait ---tries to tell the rest of us what to think...

geoffkait
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Ouch! Very ouch!
Doctor Fine wrote:
geoffkait wrote:

Is it true that a lot of older audiophiles are moving to computer audio because there's even less work involved than CDs, which of course became so in vogue because the older audiophiles were unable to get their stupid tonearm geometry quite right? Just curious...

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

No you are not just curious. You are just trolling for fish bait.

Gotcha!!!

It all ways amuses me when some late comer who knows absolutely nothing about our hobby, like Geoff Kait ---tries to tell the rest of us what to think...

Abort, abort! Return to base! These monkeys bite!

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

wkhanna
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see no evil, speak no evil, I hear no evil

Dear Doctor Fine,

To insure intent, my initial post was a friendly prod at Geoff, not your response.

But how nice it is that we both use live music as a reference.

With both digital & analog sources in my system, well-engineered vinyl is still my preferred format.

Regarding my digital frontend, the foremost requisite in my selection of a DAC was no implementation of upsampling.

Your inference that I claim a computer will solve the issue of poorly mastered or “re-mastered” (a marketing term oft used to profit from better-engineered originals by re-releasing compressed & crappy sounding garbage) material is off the mark.

While not to be considered a panacea, DRdatabase is a useful tool for sorting the chaff from the better offerings when choosing digital material to transfer to a hard-drive.
Again, the closer provenance to original master the better.
Many of my analog brethren resolutely refuse to purchase any vinyl created from digital master.
Such myopic conviction leaves them shy of much wonderful sounding music.
My personal experience has convinced me there are some worthwhile digital transfers.
But all digital is not created equal.
Reinforcing this belief are SeeDee’s (redbook 16/44) that can equal or surpass Hi-Rez material that was made from inferior source.

What computer audio has solved for me is the ability to transfer at a higher resolution than redbook (16/44) digital facsimiles of my analog library.
The results provide the convenience of digital with virtually equal quality to the analog original.
And the playback is quiet because my vinyl is clean, cared for and quiet to begin with.

After six decades, it is a pleasure to be called son.
The fun never ends. ; )

Bill - on the Hill
Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
- just an “ON” switch, Please -

geoffkait
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It's all about attitude
Doctor Fine wrote:
geoffkait wrote:

Is it true that a lot of older audiophiles are moving to computer audio because there's even less work involved than CDs, which of course became so in vogue because the older audiophiles were unable to get their stupid tonearm geometry quite right? Just curious...

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

No you are not just curious. You are just trolling for fish bait.

Gotcha!!!

It all ways amuses me when some late comer who knows absolutely nothing about our hobby, like Geoff Kait ---tries to tell the rest of us what to think...

Audiophiles are an independent breed and not necessarily amenable to learning new things, especially if they clash with closely held ideas of old. It's all about putting on the right face and adopting the right attitude.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Conceits

Doctor Fine
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If I'm Lyin I'm Dyin

BKhanna.

Dear Bill all I said was that quality control sucks today.

And you made fun of my opinion by howling "Head for the hills---Doctor Fine says it is CeeDee Armageddon!!!"

I am not laughing.

michael green
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Miami studios

Doctor Fine

Were you around when Criteria was doing their thing? Meaning before the buyout? I was doing engineering around Miami and Ft Lauderdale during the late "70's", when not touring, just wondering if we might have hung out. You probably wouldn't remember me but they called me "natch". Very cool scene down there. I was a kid when they converted that bowling alley. Use to sneak in when the bands were playing. So you played there, very cool! What a piece of history that was.

michael green
MGA/RoomTune

wkhanna
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Doctor Fine wrote:
Doctor Fine wrote:

BKhanna.

Dear Bill all I said was that quality control sucks today.

Dr Fine, I am in total agreement with you on this issue.
Thankfully there are a few exception of current releases where quality is taken serioulsy.

Doctor Fine wrote:

And you made fun of my opinion by howling "Head for the hills---Doctor Fine says it is CeeDee Armageddon!!!"

I am not laughing.

As I previously stated, the "Head for the Hills" comment was directed at Geoff as a friendly prod.
I had not even seen your post when it was made.

Be well,

Bill - on the Hill
Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
- just an “ON” switch, Please -

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