Gee, I'm RIGHT aGAIN!! I said, keep it simple. Tubes are the weakest component in a tube amp. Seen it, done it, been there. On live events, tube amps crap out, guess what, ya don't say oh well, let's get it to a shop, try the tubes FIRST, it's 99.99% the tubes! Now what else? Reality based troubleshooting, what a concept! Been doing it for 30+ years, experince beats nonsense all the time. Anyone who uses tube electronics and don't have spares of all teh tubes in teh thing is foolish, they crap out, and many times all of a sudden Can I hear an AMEN, JV, you owe me this one!
Sorry, dup, no "Amen". Who told him to buy some spare tubes to use for troubleshooting? The problem was solved, dup, and that's all that counts. Now, go dry yourself off and change your pants.
When the issue came up, the FRIST thing i said, was CHANGE the TUBES...you had him going to a service center, can't be diagnosed here, checkout bias resistors, on and on and on. I've been doing stuff for 30 eyars, I kinda have a feel for stuff. Basic tennet of trouble shooting, keep it simple, basics, weakest component of a tube amp is...the TUBES in a pre amp too. thus, I get an atta boy, you woulda' had him at teh service center and the first thing they do is...swap the tubes!! And charge lotsa per hour. AMEN....that's why I do what I do....logic and reality based stuff. AMEN to ME. Care to also explain why you would think first anything ele goes bad on a tube amp? LOGIC says......When your gas gauge in teh car goes low, do you check the lamps and battery voltages, and window washer fluid level. AMEN. Keepin it cheap keepin it real, I guess also tubes from PArts Express or other places that sell tubes to mortals, not blessed by audio nuts that somehow tag em and they now are better than anything else is also the only place to buy tubes? AMEN. Don't argue when you don't have the facts. And always remeber, I am right, you will soon see, I know. hehehehehe
dup, I told him to go to a service center because he had no extra tubes to use for troubleshooting. The first thing you do with any tube equipment is look at the tubes in a darkened room. Who suggested that? Not you, dup. You told him to replace tubes without even knowing whether any tubes looked bad. Your advice was to change all the tubes. You were not specific to any particular tube. So how do you figure you got this right? You would have cost him several hundred dollars and he still would have only needed one tube. If that's what you consider successful troubeleshooting and keeping it simple, please, stay away from my gear.
I hope a simple tube replacement solves the problem. I think apicar deserves the credit for thinking and using logic to buy tubes common to his pre amp and power amp. But, as of yet, we don't know that the replacement tube will not also fail due to other problems in the amplifier. So, don't hurt yourself patting your own back just yet, dup.
Ya don't change just one tube if teh unit has some time on it. Like car headlamps, if one fails and you have some time on it, you know the other one is gonna go soon also. Matter o' fact, the pkgs usually tell ya change em together. Tubes are similar, if you have a pair of tubes or 2 pairs and one is bad, well the others will be doing teh same thing soon. Change em open it up once be done. Unless of course you wanna keep doing the same routine non stop, getting nowhere. Experience and LOGIC tell me, certain things usually happen, and will. Been doing troublshooting beyond mere audio amps for a long long time. When time is money, you use experience and logic, to keep things working. When it matters, ya do it right teh first time, not mess around and just drag things out. Anyone with tube equipment and doesn't have spare tubes, is foolish. It's the first thing to fail, the first things to replace. That is one thing that is still relavant in teh 21st century, that hasn't changed since the era of vac tubes. AMEN. And ya don't just change one tube, while the others have hours on em, be done, change en all, and forget about it for a time. Ever hear of downtime not good. Why would you have someone go and spend big bucks for someone else to swap tubes? Unless of course you just wanna waste money accomplishing nothing. That's why tubes are in sockets, user replaceable. AMEN. You know I'm right, AMEN. Now let's get back to the cable myths and lies shall we?
JV gets in 3 posts to the stomach before DUP unleashes 4 rants to the head.
JV GOES DOWN!!!!!!!
Is this it?
No ,JV is up and recovers with with a flurry of justifications to the jaw.
DUP hits back with an experience to the abdomen and 2 logics to the face.
JV is bloodied but still fighting.
What a match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tomjtx....your poetry sucks but this play by play stuff is very good!
But my poetry sucks? You should hear me sing, I am T.S. Elliot in comparison to that :-)
Ya don't change just one tube if teh unit has some time on it.
This unit doesn't have "some time on it". This is a relatively new amplifier, the owner has had it for seven months and been led to believe it was virtually new when purchased. Any power amp, and most especially a McIntosh tube power amp, should have input/phase splitter/pre amp/driver tubes that last for years. The outputs will wear faster than the low level tubes; you know that don't you, dup? All the tubes in my amps were original Mac tubes when I bought the amps. At that time the amps were twenty years old and they still met spec. There is no need to replace all the tubes every seven months. What the hell are you thinking, dup?
Even if the amp had required a power tube, the fixed bias arrangement of the Mac allows a one tube replacement. This would certainly apply when the amp is only seven months old. Are you not paying attention, dup?
If tubes are the weakest part, as someone here wants us to believe, then it stands to reason that only one tube might fail. To believe otherwise would have someone changing all their tubes after every listening session just to avoid any "downtime". Don't you even pay attention to your own ramblings, dup?
If there are any questions about tube condition, the amplifier should be taken to a service center for a check. It would be far less expensive than replacing all the tubes every seven months. Even you can figure that one out, dup. Right?
tomjtx....your poetry sucks but this play by play stuff is very good!
Personally I can't say I'm impressed, quite the opposite actually. I think it is a great shame that the thread evolved into a moronic game of one-upmanship for member DUP.
It is quite beyond me why Stereophile allows these forums to be constantly defiled in such an overt manner. Further it would appear he has little respect for his fellow hobbyists since an examination of his past posts demonstrates that he is perfectly capable of producing legible script yet he seems to go out of his way (especially recently) to offer reams of barely comprehensible babble.
I'd suggest another vacation would be appropriate, only this time it should be made permanent.
JV has zero logic, iIbase my suggestions on logic and 30 years experience. JV doesn't like that he really doesn't know enough about electronics and audio, to offer suggestions based on logic and electrical concepts. If someone works with tube based electroncis, and doesn't have spares, that is wrong, JV seems to think a few hunmdred dollar$ or tubes is expesnive, yet he is willing to throw a few hundred to a service guy, who will swa tubes. Zero logic, most service places will ask you, did you change teh tubes? If these McIntosh amps are so special, certainly one would have parts, tubes, and not think it excessive to have tubes readily available. All audio amps do the same thing, fail the same way, nothing special with any McIntosh, only in the weird perception, that they need some special handling. Basics win, with logic. Not msticims and nonsense. AMEN.