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December 11, 2015 - 9:23am
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Is Loud A Requirement For Your System?
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I recently went though a significant system upgrade because my 50w integrated amp delivered inadequate power to my speakers. I found that as volume went up, the sound....thinned. Even at moderate levels it thinned and on occasion I do like to turn it up to 11. As a result, I upgraded to separates and now have a100w hybrid tube power amp which is plenty to drive my bookshelf speakers to deafening volumes in my 15x20 room.
I design my systems for extremely full soundstaging so volume is more a mood than anything else for me. But I also don't know many guys in the hobby or industry that have a dedicated system in every room in the house and outside, except for bathrooms and closets. So, it's not like I go into my living room to listen. My living room is outside, no kidding. My living room (also with a system) is setup out side, every other room has one chair and a system. My systems run 24/7, so it's literally walking from one concert to the next. I think because of this, higher volume isn't that big of a deal. I do turn it up, but find that I tend to listen at lower volumes than when friends come over to listen. They usually turn it up a couple of clicks higher than I do I've noticed.
Now if my stage is anything but huge, that will drive me up a wall. Of course making huge soundstages has been my profession all my life, so maybe there's somewhat of a guilt thing that takes place if I have a system less than very open and flowing.
I'm with bierfeldt, I don't do thin for myself. If a client wants it cool, but not my personal taste. I lean toward a slightly fat bottom mid and kick for most of the music I play. However it's just a turn of a bolt to give me super tight when I want.
michael green
MGA/RoomTune
http://tuneland.techno-zone.net/
On the other hand, there are integrated amplifiers that would be upgrades from what you have now.
For example, the Musical Fidelity M6si, which is an integrated amplifier that has excellent sound quality and puts out over 300 watts to a 4 ohm load (220 wpc to 8 ohms). This one is a steal at $3000.
Or you could get the Mark Levinson #585 integrated amp, which has similar power specs and is a mere $12,000.
Separates are not inherently better or more powerful, although it allows you the freedom to change the preamp or amp without changing the other.
Scary, but I agree with most of the comments offered so far.
My main system consists of separates, because I've got the space and the power amp is close between the Paradigm Studio 100v.2 towers. For that 14' x 25' x 9.5' room, a sub-woofer is necessary for a fat, loud, bottom, only when the volume is cranked.
In the basement, a 75wpc Marantz receiver, driving smallish two way, two woofer, Pinnacle towers (anyone have or heard of Pinnacle?) is plenty -- probably due to the concrete floor and brick walls. I don't know if it's a lucky combination of room and equipment, but the inexpensive, 17 year old speakers sound much better than I'd expect.
Michael's multiple systems allows me to feel less on the fringes, because our kitchen also has separates driving those Stereophile "D" rated, Pioneer, bookshelf speakers. Hey, the separates were "leftovers" and only 50wpc. Would I be nuts trying to hide a powered sub under the table? A good bargain would have to be found or that sub might be the straw which broke my wife's tolerance for having equipment "everywhere". My excuse might be to remind her that our bedroom has a 23 year old boom-box, and it has a self-contained sub!
YES. It is important for Rock music!
I'm a relative newcomer to this hobby (been into it for about a year and a half) so my verbage below, or what I tend to listen for, may come off newbie-ish to many of you.
I have two systems which are both entry level. I listen to a lot of genres, but mostly Jazz and Post-Rock. I don't tend to play my main system really loud. This consists of a Pro-ject Debut Carbon and a Wi-Fi music adapter going to a Rotel RA-12 powering Polk Rti speakers. I love listening at at a relatively mild level, and enjoy a full range from the high end to the low end with nice bass to anchor it all (without being boomy). If I can achieve that at a modest volume I am happy camper.
That said. I tend to blast my computer desktop system. This is a Audioquest Dragonfly going to a vintage NAD 304, powering Polk Monitor 4s. There is something about having loud music while doing work and being productive that is highly satisfying.
Of course I love getting good stereo imaging regardless of what the volume is. To my ears both the phono stage in the Rotel and the Dragonfly do this very well.
Not sure if many of you think this sounds amateurish, but it's what I enjoy and what I look for when listening.
If we enjoy what we hear, that's what it's all about. You and I prefer a similar frequency balance, with an even, top to bottom, including good, non-resonant, bass. I'm more tolerant of extra bass loudness if it doesn't include mid-bass boom. Although my hearing is poor in the HF range, too many systems sound too tipped-up with excess upper-mids & treble.
Decades back, I too, listened to music at higher levels when doing homework, but now I prefer silence when reading. A good system should sound good at medium and low levels, although some speakers don't sing until pushed a bit. It seems that you have a good, synergistic, system.
So it's not a critical area of concern for me. I do have a very loud stereo in my car, with an amp, that serves to give me my loudness fix from time to time. My favorite system at home is a modest 18 watts of tube bliss.
As we have been discussing on at least a couple of threads recently dynamic range is more important than loudness, maybe not for teeny boppers but for audiophiles.
Geoff Kait
Machina Dramaqueen
You shouldn't feel odd about having multiple systems, at least here. I have four in my house, my primary listening system which I described above. I also have a 7.1 theater which is a Marantz pre/pro and power amp driving Sunfire speakers. I have a Denon receiver in my family room driving B&W M-1s and I have a little Marantz network receiver driving a pair of speakers I made myself in my bedroom. I haven't taken the same care to achieve perfection in my family room and bedroom as I have with the primary listening system and my theater but I want great sound (with volume & dynamic range) anywhere I am in my house.
I'd probably play music with even higher, peak, spl's if only the recordings had more dynamic range. The average spl's, however, would be less and sound more realistic. Yes, too many recordings are over-compressed ... just like congress - irritating and always screaming.
Sort of off-subject, but I'm grateful that my return to valve amplification has been successful. The 100wpc, Rogue Atlas, power amp plays as loud, without the hard break-up at maximum levels, as the 350wpc Adcom GFA5500 it replaced. I wouldn't have been surprised if the bass was a bit looser, but it's close enough that I can't tell between the tubes low damping factor and the Adcom's claimed 700. Once in awhile, even in my old age, I enjoy rockin' out, loudly, to a track or two.
Anyone who has much experience hearing live music knows that it has two qualities usually lacking when reproduced; volume and dynamic range. I try to replicate the live experience as closely as possible. So, yes, whether Classical, Jazz, R&B, Rock or Country, it should be loud, clean and highly dynamic.
I now believe the reason some music on my system sounds good and some doesn't is (mainly), dynamic range. I sought out a couple vinyl LP's with the most DR(according to the data base) brought them home and played them, and they sound better than anything else I have.One is Eric Clapton "Unplugged" -the 2011 recording. It sounds like actual live music,(almost)
Congratulations on picking up that Rogue Atlas. I have a Hydra and I love it.
One thing I have experienced is the same recording sounding different on my system due to format. A really good example of this is Iron Maiden's the Seventh Son of the Seventh Son. I had it on cassette and CD purchased back in the late 80s or early 90s. In the past year or two I bought a special release box set and we were promised that the LP pressings were going to be from the original masters leading me to believe they made a slave from the original master and made this limited release.
The difference in sound is extraordinary. On those old copies, it sounds worse than an MP3. Like the copying trimmed the lower 30hz and upper 5K kHz off the recording. Yet another variable in all of this.
As I've read elsewhere (in a SP article?) when walking on the sidewalk, hearing music from an open window, we usually have no difficulty determining whether the sound is reproduced from a hifi system or live band. I suspect it's the "jump factor" of unrestricted dynamic range.